OBAMA orders a hault on the border fence construction. Thanks a lot @SSHOLE

[turtlespeed 212]

Quote

Quote

Yes I agree, the employers need to be held accountable. Historically this has been a joke though, and another area that needs to be addressed.

Here ya go! Do your part. Be a true patriot. Turn somebody in.

WOW!

Thanks!

I didn't know this existed.

Took me a while, but I was able to file 23 repoorts on companies here that I know are hiring illegals.

With the employee base, that should take care of 125 or so illegals in this area.

It's just a shame that I doubt anything will be done about it.

But at least I have the website now - I bookmarked it so I can go and re enter the info again and again.

Thanks Chango - you are a great American!

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Yes I agree, the employers need to be held accountable. Historically this has been a joke though, and another area that needs to be addressed.

Here ya go! Do your part. Be a true patriot. Turn somebody in.

WOW!

Thanks!

I didn't know this existed.

Took me a while, but I was able to file 23 repoorts on companies here that I know are hiring illegals.

With the employee base, that should take care of 125 or so illegals in this area.

It's just a shame that I doubt anything will be done about it.

But at least I have the website now - I bookmarked it so I can go and re enter the info again and again.

Thanks Chango - you are a great American!

I'm glad to have helped you out. Don't forget to make a donation too!

[turtlespeed 212]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Yes I agree, the employers need to be held accountable. Historically this has been a joke though, and another area that needs to be addressed.

Here ya go! Do your part. Be a true patriot. Turn somebody in.

WOW!

Thanks!

I didn't know this existed.

Took me a while, but I was able to file 23 repoorts on companies here that I know are hiring illegals.

With the employee base, that should take care of 125 or so illegals in this area.

It's just a shame that I doubt anything will be done about it.

But at least I have the website now - I bookmarked it so I can go and re enter the info again and again.

Thanks Chango - you are a great American!

I'm glad to have helped you out. Don't forget to make a donation too!

I'll have to look into wether a corporate donation vs a personal one would be more prudent.

HA - just though of one more. This guy runs a landscaping business that does my apartments. I asked him if he hired illegals. He admitted it, and even bragged about it. Time to send them back.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[GeorgiaDon 340]

While I resent greatly the closure of any parkland to American citizens because of illegal crossing activity, the FOX news article seems to be rife with the usual inaccurate hyperbole. The closed area within the Wildlife Refuge extends for about 5 miles, and North for 3/4 to about 1 mile, a total area of 3500 acres or less than 3% of the area of the park. See here for a map. Nothing close to the 80 miles described in the FOX article. Also, Interstate 8 is no-where close to the Refuge, or the border, so I've no idea what they're talking about there.

The US Fish and Wildlife Service issued the following statement today (see here for one source):
" Several media outlets have been inaccurately reporting that a massive stretch of the US border at Buenos Aires National Wildlife Refuge (NWR) was recently closed. Buenos Aires NWR in southern Arizona has not been closed to the public.

Nearly 5-years ago, a very small portion of the Refuge closed to public access due to public safety concerns. However, the remainder (97%) of the
refuge's 118,000 acres is open to the public for recreational activities such as hiking, camping, birdwatching, and seasonal hunting.

Recent news items further falsely stated that the closure extends from the border 80-miles to the north. This distance is far from accurate. On October 6, 2006 roughly 3500 acres, or 3% of the Refuge, was closed to public access due to human safety concerns. At that time there was a marked increase in violence along the border due to human and drug trafficking. The closed area extends north from the international border roughly ¾ of a mile. A notice of the closure, including a map has been on the Refuge website since 2006.

At this time there are no plans to reopen this southernmost 3/4-mile wide portion of the Refuge. However, since 2006 the Refuge has experienced a significant decline in violent activity in the area thanks to ongoing cooperation between the US Fish and Wildlife Service and US Customs and Border Protection. The Refuge will reopen the area at such time that it is determined to be safe for visitors."

Incidentally, for all those advocating a border fence along the whole or much of the US/Mexico border, surely you realize that such a fence would result in the closure of land along the length of the fence, an area many hundred times the area currently closed. There is no way the Border Patrol would be able to patrol the fence and still allow camping/hiking/ranching etc right up to the fence, at least a mile or more "buffer zone" would be needed. Also construction of the fence requires confiscation of private property from landowners, in some cases decimating ranches and farms that have belonged to families for generations. Here is an article from Dec 2007, but the issue remains much the same today:

"On Dec. 7, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said he would give landowners in South Texas 30 days to consent to letting federal officials survey their properties to determine whether they are suitable for a planned border fence. If the owners don't give permission, Chertoff said the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) will turn to the courts to gain temporary access. If the agency finds the land appropriate for fencing and landowners refuse to cooperate, the department will seek court action to confiscate the land. (Los Angeles Times, Brownsville Herald, Dec. 8) Chertoff said the DHS needs access to 225 miles of noncontiguous land, most of it in Texas and Arizona, in order to build 370 miles of border fencing by the end of 2008."The door is still open to talk, but it's not open for endless talk," Chertoff said. "We won't pay more than market price for the land," he added.

Ranchers and farmers in Texas, where much of the land along the border is privately owned, say the fence would cut off their access to the Rio Grande, the only regional source of fresh water. Business groups also complain that the fencing will slow cross-border traffic crucial for local economies. Juan D. Salinas, a judge and chief administrator of the local government in Hidalgo County, Texas, said the community opposes the planned fence based on economic, cultural and environmental concerns. "I tell you, on this one issue, the Farm Bureau, the United Farm Workers, Democrats and Republicans, white, black, brown, everybody is against the border fence. It just doesn't make sense," said Salinas. "It's a disappointment that again the Department of Homeland Security is not listening to local taxpayers.""

Building a fence along the whole border seems to be an overly simplistic response to the illegal immigration problem, easily circumvented by the would-be immigrants but with major adverse consequences for people who live or own land on the border.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[LongWayToFall 0]

I am 100% about protecting property rights, but sometimes people need to sacrifice a bit. Just about every major city you can think of, has once private property under water, used for freeways, or in parks. It is a touchy subject, and lots of times not justified, but in the case of national security, and stopping a -30B a year burden on the United States, it is absolutely worth it.

If you wanna make an omelet, you gotta break some eggs.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

If you wanna make an omelet, you gotta break some eggs.

OK. Then I suggest you personally volunteer to give whatever property you may own to the people whose land and livelihoods are being taken from them. I'm sure you won't mind at all being one of those broken eggs. After all, demanding that others give up what you won't would be hypocrisy, wouldn't it?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

This thread is a hoot. Can anybody that posts here on a regular basis keep the same political agenda for more than a week ? The last time I brought up immigration control in this forum I got flamed. Poor liberals said I was trying to keep the next Einstien or Shakespeare from entering the country and getting a chance at showing their potential. Now everybody is doing a 180 again. Gotta love it.

Which liberals are doing a 180?

I dont know which ones either
Most of them are just chasing their tails

That is a 360, right?

Well, if you consider trying to unfuck years of Republican messes, yea, that's what we're doing.

Round and Round they go
And where they stop, they dont even know

It must suck to not be able to actually answer a point.

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I live in San Diego. We have a big border fence. The Mexicans tunnel under it all of the time. Not a deterrent.

it is not a deterrent only becasue there is little local effort put forth to stop it, shoot em, drown em, poison em, put snakes in the tunnels, I really don't care, illegal is illegal

When we build the fence around Arizona, this is exactly what we're going to do to the white supremacists trapped inside

Wait, bro; I'm here and not all Nazi'd out -- let me the fuck out 1st.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

This thread is a hoot. Can anybody that posts here on a regular basis keep the same political agenda for more than a week ? The last time I brought up immigration control in this forum I got flamed. Poor liberals said I was trying to keep the next Einstien or Shakespeare from entering the country and getting a chance at showing their potential. Now everybody is doing a 180 again. Gotta love it.

Which liberals are doing a 180?

I dont know which ones either
Most of them are just chasing their tails

That is a 360, right?

Well, if you consider trying to unfuck years of Republican messes, yea, that's what we're doing.

Round and Round they go
And where they stop, they dont even know

It must suck to not be able to actually answer a point.

Not really
I am still waiting for you to make one

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,426]

> I'm sure you won't mind at all being one of those broken eggs.

Dude, you're missing the point. It's always OK to break _other_ people's eggs to make your omelet.

[LongWayToFall 0]

Now you get it.

Hey, if I lived on the border and the Gov wanted to take my land, I would be pissed too. But the fact of the matter is that I would understand why I had to give up my land, and would do so.
Shit man, why don't these ranchers buy the land on the other side of the fence for pennies, and offer that for fence expansion? hahaha!

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Quote

the border has been out of control for decades.

And it's getting worse, and time to do something about it.

News:

Agents find 48 immigrants locked in tractor trailer

Forty-eight unauthorized immigrants were found locked in tractor trailer passing through an immigration checkpoint just north of Laredo, Customs and Border Protection said Tuesday... Nineteen immigrants died from sweltering conditions within a tractor trailer during a May 2003 smuggling attempt discovered near Victoria...

Source: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/agents_find_48_immigrants_locked_in_tractor_trailer_96406749.html

[turtlespeed 212]

Quote

Quote

Quote

the border has been out of control for decades.

And it's getting worse, and time to do something about it.

News:

Agents find 48 immigrants locked in tractor trailer

Forty-eight unauthorized immigrants were found locked in tractor trailer passing through an immigration checkpoint just north of Laredo, Customs and Border Protection said Tuesday... Nineteen immigrants died from sweltering conditions within a tractor trailer during a May 2003 smuggling attempt discovered near Victoria...

Source: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/agents_find_48_immigrants_locked_in_tractor_trailer_96406749.html

That sucks - But it doesn't change the fact that they should not have put that chain of events into action. If they didn't start the chain of events, then there would have been no death in that instance.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

That sucks - But it doesn't change the fact that they should not have put that chain of events into action. If they didn't start the chain of events, then there would have been no death in that instance.

If the border were locked up tight, then they wouldn't be risking their lives trying to smuggle themselves into the country by locking themselves inside trailers in the hot Texas summer. There's a lot of them that die crossing the desert on foot, too.

[wmw999 2,146]

How do we lock the borders up tight?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[turtlespeed 212]

Quote

Quote

That sucks - But it doesn't change the fact that they should not have put that chain of events into action. If they didn't start the chain of events, then there would have been no death in that instance.

If the border were locked up tight, then they wouldn't be risking their lives trying to smuggle themselves into the country by locking themselves inside trailers in the hot Texas summer. There's a lot of them that die crossing the desert on foot, too.

Again - it is not the US that is starting the chain of events. That chain starts with the decision to break US law.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

Again - it is not the US that is starting the chain of events. That chain starts with the decision to break US law.

Agreed, but we do provide attractive incentives for them to break our immigration laws and come here. They get food stamps, welfare, health care and jobs off the books with no taxes, drive without insurance or licenses, and so on.

If we denied all that to illegal immigrants, they might decide it's best just to stay home.

I had a Mexican couple with baby in front of me in line at the grocery store a little while ago. They had a food stamp card for their groceries, but didn't know how to swipe it through the card reader, answer the questions and enter the PIN. The clerk tried to help them but they didn't understand English, so the clerk finally did it for them.

Question: How does someone who can't speak English and doesn't understand credit cards, get a free food credit card from the government? Answer: there are organizations out there doing these things for them, taking advantage of our system, for their own illegal benefit.

So, I'm all for Arizona's law that makes 'em prove their legitimacy. Can't do it; no benefits.

[quade 3]

Quote

If the border were locked up tight, then they wouldn't be risking their lives trying to smuggle themselves into the country by locking themselves inside trailers in the hot Texas summer. There's a lot of them that die crossing the desert on foot, too.

No. If there wasn't an incentive for them to come here in the first place, then they wouldn't.

Crack down on the employers and raise the standard of living in Mexico and illegal immigration from there would virtually vanish overnight.

You'll notice there are very few illegal immigrants from Canada and 90% of their population lives within an extremely narrow band close to the US border.

Why is there little illegal Canadian immigration? Their standard of living is not just comparable to the US, in some significant ways, it's higher.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

I had a Mexican couple with baby in front of me in line at the grocery store a little while ago. They had a food stamp card for their groceries, but didn't know how to swipe it through the card reader, answer the questions and enter the PIN. The clerk tried to help them but they didn't understand English, so the clerk finally did it for them.

Serious question(s): (a) what do you think the chances are that they were illegal, as opposed to recent legal, immigrants, and (b) upon what do you base that estimation?

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

Quote

I had a Mexican couple with baby in front of me in line at the grocery store a little while ago. They had a food stamp card for their groceries, but didn't know how to swipe it through the card reader, answer the questions and enter the PIN. The clerk tried to help them but they didn't understand English, so the clerk finally did it for them.

Serious question(s): (a) what do you think the chances are that they were illegal, as opposed to recent legal, immigrants, and (b) upon what do you base that estimation?

... and how does he know they are from Mexico?

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I had a Mexican couple with baby in front of me in line at the grocery store a little while ago. They had a food stamp card for their groceries, but didn't know how to swipe it through the card reader, answer the questions and enter the PIN. The clerk tried to help them but they didn't understand English, so the clerk finally did it for them.

Serious question(s): (a) what do you think the chances are that they were illegal, as opposed to recent legal, immigrants, and (b) upon what do you base that estimation?

... and how does he know they are from Mexico?

Yeah I thought that too, but decided to keep it at a & b for brevity. Also, in all fairness, there are a lot of poor illegal immigrants from Central American countries, too, so it probably doesn't really matter.

[quade 3]

Quote

Quote

I had a Mexican couple with baby in front of me in line at the grocery store a little while ago. They had a food stamp card for their groceries, but didn't know how to swipe it through the card reader, answer the questions and enter the PIN. The clerk tried to help them but they didn't understand English, so the clerk finally did it for them.

Serious question(s): (a) what do you think the chances are that they were illegal, as opposed to recent legal, immigrants, and (b) upon what do you base that estimation?

Why would they even need to be recent legal immigrants?

Many first generation immigrants to the US have difficulties with the language and cultural differences their entire lives. A second language is generally difficult to learn past a certain point in a person's life.

Many natural born US citizens have difficulties with technology as well. Just this morning I had a hell of a time getting the train ticket machine to take my credit card and I'm fairly certain I speak the language that was written on the machine and know how to swipe a credit card too. The machine is just a POS.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rhaig 0]

Quote

The machine is just a POS.

why yes, they are referred to as a POS.

Point Of Sale system. I always thought that odd when I worked for a company that made POS's.

And really we're talking about Occam's razor here. He's not arresting anyone, he's forming an opinion. Opinions come with assumptions. That's why they're called opinions and not facts.

In TX, especially in one of it's sanctuary cities, when you come upon a spanish only speaking man or woman of less than 40years old, it's likely that they are not in this country legally. There are exceptions, sure. And I've learned to speak spanish (partly) so I can interact with them and be a nice guy. (still have a hard time reading it) I recognize the benefit we get from their presence. (as well as the detriment)

call me what names you will, but Occam's razor usually applies.

--
Rob

[penniless 0]

Quote

Many natural born US citizens have difficulties with technology as well.

Many natural born US citizens have difficulties with the English language too.

Confusing "their", "there" and "they're".

Confusing "your" and "you're"

"He would of", "she could of".

"Drouge" instead of "drogue".

"Hault" instead of "halt" (OP)
Then they whine about immigrants who don't learn English.

[masterrig 1]

At least, we have a better chance of understanding them rather than someone speaking a language we don't understand.


Chuck