Knock , Knock! , Who's There? SWAT

[skyrider 0]

http://oregonfirearms.org/alertspage/Outrage.html

[quade 3]

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http://oregonfirearms.org/alertspage/Outrage.html

So, the guy has to go on a shooting spree first before the cops can talk to him?

I dunno. I'm not for barging into just anybody's house for no good reason at 3 am, but in this case it does look like there was a pretty decent reason to suspect the guy could go postal. This seems a bit overboard, but we're only hearing one side of the story. My guess is there's more to it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 18]

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http://oregonfirearms.org/alertspage/Outrage.html

So, the guy has to go on a shooting spree first before the cops can talk to him?

I dunno. I'm not for barging into just anybody's house for no good reason at 3 am, but in this case it does look like there was a pretty decent reason to suspect the guy could go postal. This seems a bit overboard, but we're only hearing one side of the story. My guess is there's more to it.

More to it?

But here is yet another case where a law abiding citizen had guns removed without warrent and it being held without dur process. He made legal purchases and they go after him because they suspect he might do something?

If this story holds I hope he sues the ass off the police and the state

...and the left bitches about warrentless wire taps of out of country non citizens WTF

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Did you read the whole story?

I just read the rest of it

It happened March 8th.

Appears to be pure bull shit by the gov to me

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 0]

Interesting issues raised; but I, too, wish I could see some objective reporting so I can make an informed evaluation. My quick Google search resulted in lots of hits, but they all seem to be from blogs or websites with partisan or narrow-issue agendas. Anyone have any "mainstream" reporting of this?

[nigel99 144]

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http://oregonfirearms.org/alertspage/Outrage.html

umm lets see the guy is in a dispute with his employer and goes out and buys multiple guns. I am willing to bet that what he has omitted from his story is that he made violent threats against the employer (or someone else) and that a complaint was made to the police.

Lets face it a-lot of people make stupid threats when they are angry or upset - most people take them as idle words but not everyone does.

On the other hand in the US you tend to love your profiling so maybe he just fit the profile.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Amazon 7]

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http://oregonfirearms.org/alertspage/Outrage.html

So, the guy has to go on a shooting spree first before the cops can talk to him?

I dunno. I'm not for barging into just anybody's house for no good reason at 3 am, but in this case it does look like there was a pretty decent reason to suspect the guy could go postal. This seems a bit overboard, but we're only hearing one side of the story. My guess is there's more to it.

More to it?

But here is yet another case where a law abiding citizen had guns removed without warrent and it being held without dur process. He made legal purchases and they go after him because they suspect he might do something?

If this story holds I hope he sues the ass off the police and the state

...and the left bitches about warrentless wire taps of out of country non citizens WTF

Sorry but this is a case of once the Feds handed the extraordinary police powers out under the Patriot Act.... they are doing EXACTLY what they will do.. ABUSE their police powers. For ANYONE on the right that did not see this coming.. ( its been happening for a few years now) What do you have to worry about... if you are doing nothing wrong.

[Amazon 7]

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http://oregonfirearms.org/alertspage/Outrage.html

umm lets see the guy is in a dispute with his employer and goes out and buys multiple guns. I am willing to bet that what he has omitted from his story is that he made violent threats against the employer (or someone else) and that a complaint was made to the police.

Lets face it a-lot of people make stupid threats when they are angry or upset - most people take them as idle words but not everyone does.

On the other hand in the US you tend to love your profiling so maybe he just fit the profile.

He is a STATE employee.....

From the article

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Shortly before David made these purchases, he had been put on "administrative leave" from his job at the Oregon Department of Transportation. He was involved in a dispute with a superior which he was attempting to resolve though normal channels and union procedures when he was told he would have to work from home.

[rushmc 18]

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http://oregonfirearms.org/alertspage/Outrage.html

So, the guy has to go on a shooting spree first before the cops can talk to him?

I dunno. I'm not for barging into just anybody's house for no good reason at 3 am, but in this case it does look like there was a pretty decent reason to suspect the guy could go postal. This seems a bit overboard, but we're only hearing one side of the story. My guess is there's more to it.

More to it?

But here is yet another case where a law abiding citizen had guns removed without warrent and it being held without dur process. He made legal purchases and they go after him because they suspect he might do something?

If this story holds I hope he sues the ass off the police and the state

...and the left bitches about warrentless wire taps of out of country non citizens WTF

Sorry but this is a case of once the Feds handed the extraordinary police powers out under the Patriot Act.... they are doing EXACTLY what they will do.. ABUSE their police powers. For ANYONE on the right that did not see this coming.. ( its been happening for a few years now) What do you have to worry about... if you are doing nothing wrong.

Sorry
This was state officials
But if you thing it is the Patriot Act in actions you had better contact the Obama Admin

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,146]

It happened 3 months ago; he got his guns back the following Monday (4 days later).

Dunno what transpired at the office -- no one seems to be talking there. But many people who work in big companies take the workplace violence stuff seriously. And if he'd been storming around the office (like the dude in the video), then gets placed on leave, then goes out and buys new firepower, I can totally see where some folks would be concerned.

Is this the best way to react? I'm sure it isn't. What would the calls have been if he had gone back and blown people away? Would people have pointed fingers at "ignoring the signs?"

I'm thinking that a situation happened where people did what they thought was best under what they thought were exigent circumstances. Now it's being examined at least somewhat in the open.

The perfect system doesn't exist. But one nice thing about the US is that we're generally willing to examine our mistakes. Now if we'd just learn from them . But we often can't agree what's a mistake and what's right, can we.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[AndyBoyd 0]

In the article, there is a link to an editorial by a local newspaper that defends the police actions. It seems the guy had been acting out at work, yelling at people to the point where they were frightened. When he was placed on leave, state troopers escorted him from the building. When some of his co-workers found out he had purchased guns, they left their homes to hide in a hotel. Giving the cops the benefit of the doubt, the guy at least appeared to be unstable, and people were scared he might go postal. Having said that, sending in the SWAT team in the middle of the night seems like an overreaction. And I question how "voluntarily" he submitted to custody and gave up his weapons. But suppose the cops had done nothing, and he shot up the office the next day? But it's hard to justify the SWAT team dragging the guy off in the middle of the night for a "voluntary" mental health exam, not to mention confiscating his property. Seems like there could have been a less invasive or aggressive way to assess the potential threat.

[rushmc 18]

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In the article, there is a link to an editorial by a local newspaper that defends the police actions. It seems the guy had been acting out at work, yelling at people to the point where they were frightened. When he was placed on leave, state troopers escorted him from the building. When some of his co-workers found out he had purchased guns, they left their homes to hide in a hotel. Giving the cops the benefit of the doubt, the guy at least appeared to be unstable, and people were scared he might go postal. Having said that, sending in the SWAT team in the middle of the night seems like an overreaction. And I question how "voluntarily" he submitted to custody and gave up his weapons. But suppose the cops had done nothing, and he shot up the office the next day? But it's hard to justify the SWAT team dragging the guy off in the middle of the night for a "voluntary" mental health exam, not to mention confiscating his property. Seems like there could have been a less invasive or aggressive way to assess the potential threat.

It also says that he threatened no one at his place of work. And that statement came from where he worked but, I fully agree with the last line of your post. It is probably good they checked him out. Gotta be a better way than what they did however. A legal way

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Another question comes to mind after thinking about your post. How did those he worked with find out he purchased some new guns???

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[AndyBoyd 0]

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Another question comes to mind after thinking about your post. How did those he worked with find out he purchased some new guns???

I wondered about that myself. I have no idea. Unless I missed it, the editorial does not explain how they found out. Pure speculation follows: apparently under OR law, OR state police must pre-approve gun purchases in that state -- the police must have told his co-workers he bought the guns.

[Andy9o8 0]

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In the article, there is a link to an editorial by a local newspaper that defends the police actions. It seems the guy had been acting out at work, yelling at people to the point where they were frightened. When he was placed on leave, state troopers escorted him from the building. When some of his co-workers found out he had purchased guns, they left their homes to hide in a hotel. Giving the cops the benefit of the doubt, the guy at least appeared to be unstable, and people were scared he might go postal. Having said that, sending in the SWAT team in the middle of the night seems like an overreaction. And I question how "voluntarily" he submitted to custody and gave up his weapons. But suppose the cops had done nothing, and he shot up the office the next day? But it's hard to justify the SWAT team dragging the guy off in the middle of the night for a "voluntary" mental health exam, not to mention confiscating his property. Seems like there could have been a less invasive or aggressive way to assess the potential threat.

From a strictly operational standpoint - i.e., "lack of warrant" issues aside - police often feel that executing an arrest and/or search/seizure at nighttime enhances the overall security and/or probable success of the operation. (In my career, I've seen lots of affidavits in support of applications for search or arrest warrants in which the judge is specifically requested to authorize nighttime execution, for exactly that kind of reason.)

[nigel99 144]

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Another question comes to mind after thinking about your post. How did those he worked with find out he purchased some new guns???

Quite possibly because he bragged about it to them, directly or indirectly threatened people at work are other alternatives.

I think with news there is often alot more to it than articles state (think the parachute failed to open as an example)

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[winsor 187]

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http://oregonfirearms.org/alertspage/Outrage.html

So, the guy has to go on a shooting spree first before the cops can talk to him?

I dunno. I'm not for barging into just anybody's house for no good reason at 3 am, but in this case it does look like there was a pretty decent reason to suspect the guy could go postal. This seems a bit overboard, but we're only hearing one side of the story. My guess is there's more to it.

Bad guess, as usual.

[quade 3]

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http://oregonfirearms.org/alertspage/Outrage.html

So, the guy has to go on a shooting spree first before the cops can talk to him?
I dunno. I'm not for barging into just anybody's house for no good reason at 3 am, but in this case it does look like there was a pretty decent reason to suspect the guy could go postal. This seems a bit overboard, but we're only hearing one side of the story. My guess is there's more to it.

Bad guess, as usual.

Please. You really believe that all there is to know about the story is what was relayed in the article?

You're smarter than that.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

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So, the guy has to go on a shooting spree first before the cops can talk to him?

I dunno. I'm not for barging into just anybody's house for no good reason at 3 am, but in this case it does look like there was a pretty decent reason to suspect the guy could go postal. This seems a bit overboard, but we're only hearing one side of the story. My guess is there's more to it.

This is why gun owners so strongly oppose registration and other record keeping. Couple the much more capable database records lookups with a Patriot Act view of civil rights (better to be safe than to respect individual rights) and this is exactly the outcome you get.

And just to fuck up the thread - for those of you who think this wasn't an unreasonable move to prevent a potential workplace shooting - do you also agree that invading Iraq to ensure the WMDs were really gone was reasonable prudence? Surely taking Hussein's (or the corrupt UN) word isn't going to do it.

[wmw999 2,146]

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for those of you who think this wasn't an unreasonable move to prevent a potential workplace shooting - do you also agree that invading Iraq to ensure the WMDs were really gone was reasonable prudence

Nicely played, sir.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Andy9o8 0]

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for those of you who think this wasn't an unreasonable move to prevent a potential workplace shooting - do you also agree that invading Iraq to ensure the WMDs were really gone was reasonable prudence? Surely taking Hussein's (or the corrupt UN) word isn't going to do it.

Ah, but we had a warrant.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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And just to fuck up the thread - for those of you who think this wasn't an unreasonable move to prevent a potential workplace shooting - do you also agree that invading Iraq to ensure the WMDs were really gone was reasonable prudence?

Not to suggest that I agree with the police tactics in this incident (because I don't), but how many people did the police kill in this incident?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Regarding the article you posted, what the hell does Obama have to do with any of that? Do members of/subscribers to oregonfirearms.org really believe that the White House had anything to do with the police overstepping their limits in this specific incident? Or is this just another opportunity for a drive-by swipe at Obama?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[ChangoLanzao 0]

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And just to fuck up the thread - for those of you who think this wasn't an unreasonable move to prevent a potential workplace shooting - do you also agree that invading Iraq to ensure the WMDs were really gone was reasonable prudence?

Not to suggest that I agree with the police tactics in this incident (because I don't), but how many people did the police kill in this incident?

Don

It didn't cost one trillion dollars ... and none of the police died either!

[ChangoLanzao 0]

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Regarding the article you posted, what the hell does Obama have to do with any of that? Do members of/subscribers to oregonfirearms.org really believe that the White House had anything to do with the police overstepping their limits in this specific incident? Or is this just another opportunity for a drive-by swipe at Obama?

Don

They are gun nuts ... doing what gun nuts do.