rynodigsmusic 0 #51 January 7, 2010 QuoteIf someone was trying to intentionally Kill My Dog without Cause, I would use whatever means I had available to stop them. Including Lethal force if necessary. See, this is something really cool. At what point does a human or a dog find such a strong connection for the other? There have been instances in life where a human has given his life for his dog, and a dog has given his life for a human. That is a very deep connection for two different species (apart from the mammal argument) to share. It just shows me more and more that everything with life is connected, not only through death, but also through life."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #52 January 7, 2010 Here's a novel idea: Raise the price of treated water as well as meter all pumps/canals coming from the river and charge them. Use that $$$ to pay for the canals and desalinization plants needed. Creating a sustainable situation starts with charging those that use it.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #53 January 7, 2010 QuoteQuotesomeone breaks into my house. at that point, my dog's life is worth more than his. Can you explain the difference between your example, and one involving illegal whalers, and the lives of the whales the Sea Shepherd crew wants to protect? I am assuming, of course, you are not talking about killing the perpetrator to protect your dog; that would be far worse than anything the Sea Shepherd organization ever did for a whale. The dog is the member of the family. It would be the lowest ranking member, but the Sea Shepherds aren't keeping whales as pets. The closest they have to a bond is naming ones with familiar scars on the fins. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #54 January 7, 2010 QuoteThe dog is the member of the family. It would be the lowest ranking member, but the Sea Shepherds aren't keeping whales as pets. The closest they have to a bond is naming ones with familiar scars on the fins. It seems your idea of what makes a bond is a lot more limited than mine. That aside, I do not see how a bond/pet/name make the situations any different w/r/t importance of protection.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #55 January 7, 2010 QuoteQuoteThe dog is the member of the family. It would be the lowest ranking member, but the Sea Shepherds aren't keeping whales as pets. The closest they have to a bond is naming ones with familiar scars on the fins. It seems your idea of what makes a bond is a lot more limited than mine. That aside, I do not see how a bond/pet/name make the situations any different w/r/t importance of protection. What's confusing? A family member, human or not, is worth more than a criminal. As someone else said, it may not ranked over another person like in the road. Ramming whaling ships rather than shark finning ships because whales are cuter is an inconsistent action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #56 January 7, 2010 QuoteQuoteThe dog is the member of the family. It would be the lowest ranking member, but the Sea Shepherds aren't keeping whales as pets. The closest they have to a bond is naming ones with familiar scars on the fins. It seems your idea of what makes a bond is a lot more limited than mine. That aside, I do not see how a bond/pet/name make the situations any different w/r/t importance of protection. Two dogs are about to be run over - do you save YOUR dog, or a dog you've seen hanging around the neighborhood?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #57 January 7, 2010 >Here's a novel idea: Raise the price of treated water as well as meter >all pumps/canals coming from the river and charge them. Sure, you could do that, and that would solve much of the problem quickly _without_ having to build any new canals. You'd then be crucified for putting fish before people, and putting tens of thousands of farmers, plumbers, lifeguards, landscapers and gardeners out of work. You'd be blamed for unemployment, hunger, frivolous lawsuits, traffic accidents and bad breath. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #58 January 7, 2010 QuoteRamming whaling ships rather than shark finning ships because whales are cuter is an inconsistent action. Actually, they target shark finning ships, too. And I pointed out the silliness of the cute argument when I responded to kallend's poacher example. QuoteWhat's confusing? A family member, human or not, is worth more than a criminal. Two possible scenarios: A man injures a perpetrator to protect his dog. A perpetrator is injured by a man to save a whale. I do not see why whale-guy gets less sympathy because he did not keep the whale in a tank in his backyard, name it Shamu and swim with it daily.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #59 January 7, 2010 Quote >Here's a novel idea: Raise the price of treated water as well as meter >all pumps/canals coming from the river and charge them. Sure, you could do that, and that would solve much of the problem quickly _without_ having to build any new canals. You'd then be crucified for putting fish before people, and putting tens of thousands of farmers, plumbers, lifeguards, landscapers and gardeners out of work. You'd be blamed for unemployment, hunger, frivolous lawsuits, traffic accidents and bad breath. It's overutilization of the water source that needs to be addressed, the fish is just a byproduct of that. If the profit margins are that slim that they can't pay for water... Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #60 January 7, 2010 >It's overutilization of the water source that needs to be addressed, the >fish is just a byproduct of that. Definitely. The fish is just a sign that we're dangerously close to the edge on our water supplies. >If the profit margins are that slim that they can't pay for water... . . . then the end result is the same - no water. Which, in both cases, solves the problem at the cost of putting farmers out of work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #61 January 7, 2010 Quote>It's overutilization of the water source that needs to be addressed, the >fish is just a byproduct of that. Definitely. The fish is just a sign that we're dangerously close to the edge on our water supplies. >If the profit margins are that slim that they can't pay for water... . . . then the end result is the same - no water. Which, in both cases, solves the problem at the cost of putting farmers out of work. Or they raise prices to compensate, or sell their land to a developer if the margion really was tha slim and move somewhere else. Considering the insane ammount of $$$ So Cal real estate goes for, farming just may not be the best use of the land there anyways. One of the biggest issues this country has is we refuse to let anything go. Either it's "too large to fail" "a tradition" etc. This wishy washy mamby pamby attitude everywhere is why we're basically bankrupt and yet still giving out "free" money to companies and funding programs that hemorrage $$$. This is one huge reason why we need to limit voters to those that actually pay taxes versus those that only take.Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #62 January 7, 2010 Quote Two dogs are about to be run over - do you save YOUR dog, or a dog you've seen hanging around the neighborhood? The question and examples provided pertain/s to human vs. animal and importance of protecting one vs. another. I tried really hard to make the topic question clear and unambiguous, and still one person wonders the point and another asks if I would save my dog or another. SO SC. Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #63 January 7, 2010 >One of the biggest issues this country has is we refuse to let anything go. There are times that's good and times that's bad. If we refuse to let a farmer go because he's a farmer like in that Grant Wood painting, maybe that's a bad decision. If we refuse to let safety standards for nuclear power plants, dams and airlines go, maybe that's a good thing - even if it costs us money. Water is somewhere in between. We control it collectively, since it comes from private and public watersheds alike. Letting health standards go would be a mistake (IMO.) Charging more for it might not be. >This is one huge reason why we need to limit voters to those that >actually pay taxes versus those that only take. Having what is essentially a poll tax is (IMO) a very, very bad idea. We're a country of the people, not of the rich; that concept is at the very core of both our society and our government. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #64 January 7, 2010 Quote If a poacher was about to shoot the last breeding pair of (black rhinos, giant pandas, white tigers, insert other species here) and the only way to stop him was to shoot him, then shoot him. as you should know Doc if they are the last pair, then the gene pool is too shallow for them to survive anyway (unless you have stock piled sperm and eggs from other animals) so taking the poachers life would be in vain anywaysYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #65 January 7, 2010 Quote Quote Two dogs are about to be run over - do you save YOUR dog, or a dog you've seen hanging around the neighborhood? The question and examples provided pertain/s to human vs. animal and importance of protecting one vs. another. I tried really hard to make the topic question clear and unambiguous, and still one person wonders the point and another asks if I would save my dog or another. SO SC. You said: "That aside, I do not see how a bond/pet/name make the situations any different w/r/t importance of protection." I provided an example to show exactly HOW a bond makes a situation different.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #66 January 7, 2010 Quote A perpetrator is injured by a man to save a whale. I do not see why whale-guy gets less sympathy because he did not keep the whale in a tank in his backyard, name it Shamu and swim with it daily. Well, it's not exactly an accurate description of the situation, is it? Sea Sheppard's SOP is to harass whaling ships, block their way, and occasionally ram (or sink or mine) boats themselves. If you play with fire... That's why there is mixed sympathy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #67 January 8, 2010 QuoteWell, it's not exactly an accurate description of the situation, is it? Sea Sheppard's SOP is to harass whaling ships, block their way, and occasionally ram (or sink or mine) boats themselves. If you play with fire... We agree. If you play with fire... Perps in both scenarios played. To be clear, in my second scenario, the whaling ship personnel are the perps.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain1976 0 #68 January 8, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe dog is the member of the family. It would be the lowest ranking member, but the Sea Shepherds aren't keeping whales as pets. The closest they have to a bond is naming ones with familiar scars on the fins. It seems your idea of what makes a bond is a lot more limited than mine. That aside, I do not see how a bond/pet/name make the situations any different w/r/t importance of protection. What's confusing? A family member, human or not, is worth more than a criminal. As someone else said, it may not ranked over another person like in the road. Please define a criminal. Is it someone who is a cold blooded killer or someone who fell victim to some laws put in place by grandstanding politicians for political gain? Remember, one of the largest lobby groups in the US is opposed to and vigorously fights marijuana legalization. The group they represent is the Correctional Officers Unions.You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #69 January 8, 2010 we have plenty of doper threads already. Please don't butt into this one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #70 January 8, 2010 I think the SS isn't really that upset about getting rammed either - though many express a lack of sympathy, it garners them substantial publicity. And from what I read, that ship of their's was a high performance craft - was it actually unable to get out of the way? Or is the latest tactic in what is a publicity game to shame the whaling nations? (Will that work? Japan has been remarkably resistant to outsider pressure - Nanking being another example) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TrophyHusband 0 #71 January 8, 2010 QuoteQuotesomeone breaks into my house. at that point, my dog's life is worth more than his. Can you explain the difference between your example, and one involving illegal whalers, and the lives of the whales the Sea Shepherd crew wants to protect? I am assuming, of course, you are not talking about killing the perpetrator to protect your dog; that would be far worse than anything the Sea Shepherd organization ever did for a whale. do i really have to explain the difference between protecting my family or private property and protecting a wild animal? if you can't see the difference, there's really no point in discussing it with you. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Bolas 5 #72 January 8, 2010 Quote >This is one huge reason why we need to limit voters to those that >actually pay taxes versus those that only take. Having what is essentially a poll tax is (IMO) a very, very bad idea. We're a country of the people, not of the rich; that concept is at the very core of both our society and our government. Not a poll tax. In over simplified terms, just a a quick IRS check to see if you paid federal income taxes before getting your voter registration card. We have a rapidly growing conflict of interest: people who don't pay taxes able to vote in favor of expensive programs they don't have to pay for. Why would they not vote for more benefits? Why would politicians not cater to these people to easilly get reelected? Meanwhile, people like you and I are stuck with the bill. If there was a way to differentiate budgetary items from basic laws and rights, I'd be in favor of that, but even for those it all comes down to $$$. $$$ we really can't afford to throw around anymore. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites feuergnom 22 #73 January 8, 2010 I think the real question runs like this: can we as a species exist and survive without a functioning eco-system that includes species we have decided on being usefull for our "needs"? the answer would be no. so we as a species have to protect our planet to the best of our abilities, even if this affects some of our "freedoms" can the planet survive without us? well it did pretty good for the last couple of million years... so to come back to your question: if we accept that we are just a part of the whole thing (contrary to the thought of putting ourselves on the top of evolution ) - our lives are not very important on a grand scale The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ridestrong 1 #74 January 8, 2010 Quote I don't believe in animal cruelty, but on the other hand I am left speechless by the number of people that I meet that are unable to separate their emotional/rational treatment of a pet from that of a human child. I find it deeply disturbing and honestly without wishing to offend bordering on mental illness when someone truly accepts and treats a pet cat or dog as a child of their own. >>I don't believe in animal cruelty ------ Huh?????*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PLFXpert 0 #75 January 8, 2010 Quotedo i really have to explain the difference between protecting my family or private property and protecting a wild animal? if you can't see the difference, there's really no point in discussing it with you. The difference is what is personal to you.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 3 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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kelpdiver 2 #69 January 8, 2010 we have plenty of doper threads already. Please don't butt into this one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #70 January 8, 2010 I think the SS isn't really that upset about getting rammed either - though many express a lack of sympathy, it garners them substantial publicity. And from what I read, that ship of their's was a high performance craft - was it actually unable to get out of the way? Or is the latest tactic in what is a publicity game to shame the whaling nations? (Will that work? Japan has been remarkably resistant to outsider pressure - Nanking being another example) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #71 January 8, 2010 QuoteQuotesomeone breaks into my house. at that point, my dog's life is worth more than his. Can you explain the difference between your example, and one involving illegal whalers, and the lives of the whales the Sea Shepherd crew wants to protect? I am assuming, of course, you are not talking about killing the perpetrator to protect your dog; that would be far worse than anything the Sea Shepherd organization ever did for a whale. do i really have to explain the difference between protecting my family or private property and protecting a wild animal? if you can't see the difference, there's really no point in discussing it with you. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #72 January 8, 2010 Quote >This is one huge reason why we need to limit voters to those that >actually pay taxes versus those that only take. Having what is essentially a poll tax is (IMO) a very, very bad idea. We're a country of the people, not of the rich; that concept is at the very core of both our society and our government. Not a poll tax. In over simplified terms, just a a quick IRS check to see if you paid federal income taxes before getting your voter registration card. We have a rapidly growing conflict of interest: people who don't pay taxes able to vote in favor of expensive programs they don't have to pay for. Why would they not vote for more benefits? Why would politicians not cater to these people to easilly get reelected? Meanwhile, people like you and I are stuck with the bill. If there was a way to differentiate budgetary items from basic laws and rights, I'd be in favor of that, but even for those it all comes down to $$$. $$$ we really can't afford to throw around anymore. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 22 #73 January 8, 2010 I think the real question runs like this: can we as a species exist and survive without a functioning eco-system that includes species we have decided on being usefull for our "needs"? the answer would be no. so we as a species have to protect our planet to the best of our abilities, even if this affects some of our "freedoms" can the planet survive without us? well it did pretty good for the last couple of million years... so to come back to your question: if we accept that we are just a part of the whole thing (contrary to the thought of putting ourselves on the top of evolution ) - our lives are not very important on a grand scale The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #74 January 8, 2010 Quote I don't believe in animal cruelty, but on the other hand I am left speechless by the number of people that I meet that are unable to separate their emotional/rational treatment of a pet from that of a human child. I find it deeply disturbing and honestly without wishing to offend bordering on mental illness when someone truly accepts and treats a pet cat or dog as a child of their own. >>I don't believe in animal cruelty ------ Huh?????*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #75 January 8, 2010 Quotedo i really have to explain the difference between protecting my family or private property and protecting a wild animal? if you can't see the difference, there's really no point in discussing it with you. The difference is what is personal to you.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
