JohnRich 4 #1 July 29, 2009 News:New Policy Allows Police To Shoot At Fleeing Cars The Chicago Police Department has instituted a major change in policy regarding the use of deadly force. Effective next Monday, police officers will be able to fire their guns under circumstances where they previously could not. The new policy allows police officers to shoot at fleeing vehicles if the driver or passengers are suspected of committing a felony. The old policy allowed officers only to shoot at vehicles that pose a threat to them or others, such as if the driver were trying to run down the officer.Source: http://cbs2chicago.com/local/police.deadly.force.2.1105766.html Is the risk to the innocent public from police gunfire, and the risk of mistakes, worth the effort to stop fleeing felons? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #2 July 29, 2009 QuoteIs the risk to the innocent public from police gunfire, and the risk of mistakes, worth the effort to stop fleeing felons? Fleeing "suspected" felons Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #3 July 29, 2009 I think it should be an option they have at their disposal. That said, most reasonable law enforcement agencies already have fairly strict rules with regards to chases. My guess is that the option to shoot would have a number of rules also associated with it.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #4 July 29, 2009 QuoteFleeing "suspected" felons Yes, that's one of the scary parts of this new law. And also the "passenger" part. A bunch of cops could open fire on a carload of people, only one of whom is a suspected felon, and not even the driver. That would seem to put innocent people in serious harm's way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #5 July 29, 2009 Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #6 July 29, 2009 WTF?! I once witnessed the LAPD do something similarly disturbing on live television. Suspects crashed their vehicle, egressed, and the police shot at one of em as they ran away. My mouth dropped when I saw the bullets impact a curb the obviously unarmed suspect was stepping onto in a full run. The suspect immediately fell out of view of the news helicopter due to a tree being in the way. www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #7 July 29, 2009 If ordinary citizens in Texas (please forgive the oxymoron) can do it, why not the cops? Wasn't that guy who shot the person that had robbed his neighbors house shooting at the guy as they were attempting to leave? From what I read he was certainly not on the attack. But seriously, shooting at people leaving a crime scene, especially if they are still suspects (not yet guilty) seems a little over the top. I'm not even sure they should be shot even if they were seen to commit the crime. Give chase, gather information, try to catch them - but just outright shoot them because they are suspects. Hmmmm. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #8 July 29, 2009 QuoteSounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Agreed... the first time an innocent bystander catches a stray bullet, there will be hell to pay. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #9 July 29, 2009 QuoteNews:New Policy Allows Police To Shoot At Fleeing Cars The Chicago Police Department has instituted a major change in policy regarding the use of deadly force. Effective next Monday, police officers will be able to fire their guns under circumstances where they previously could not. The new policy allows police officers to shoot at fleeing vehicles if the driver or passengers are suspected of committing a felony. The old policy allowed officers only to shoot at vehicles that pose a threat to them or others, such as if the driver were trying to run down the officer.Source: http://cbs2chicago.com/local/police.deadly.force.2.1105766.html Is the risk to the innocent public from police gunfire, and the risk of mistakes, worth the effort to stop fleeing felons? This incident is in reaction to a perp who ran from a traffic stop by narcotics officers in Chicago. He drove all the way to the Plaza 9 Tollway Exchange in Elgin all while throwing a gun, and large amounts of cocaine from the window. When they arrived at the toll plaza he attempted to drive through the squad car blocking him in, he was shot twice in the chest. I think his family is now suing. iirc he was 19 or 20, no job and an expensive Mercedes Benz is what he was driving, it was registered in his name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 192 #10 July 29, 2009 QuoteNews:New Policy Allows Police To Shoot At Fleeing Cars The Chicago Police Department has instituted a major change in policy regarding the use of deadly force. Effective next Monday, police officers will be able to fire their guns under circumstances where they previously could not. The new policy allows police officers to shoot at fleeing vehicles if the driver or passengers are suspected of committing a felony. The old policy allowed officers only to shoot at vehicles that pose a threat to them or others, such as if the driver were trying to run down the officer.Source: http://cbs2chicago.com/local/police.deadly.force.2.1105766.html Is the risk to the innocent public from police gunfire, and the risk of mistakes, worth the effort to stop fleeing felons? One of the problems here is that there are a pretty broad range of felonies that do not pose much of an immediate threat to the public. In some States (the Commonwealths of Massachusetts and Virginia come to mind) activities between a man and wife that meet the full approval of Dr. Ruth are major felonies. Oral sex was still on the books as a hanging offense when I lived in Virginia. Another problem is that the level of marksmanship exhibited by the average law enforcement type is execrable. There are numerous cases of LEOs using up two or three high-capacity magazines in an engagement without achieving a single hit. Having people blasting the landscape in the attempt to stop someone who put their controlled-substance prescription medication into daily dose containers (a Federal felony) does not strike me as one of the three best ideas anyone has authored of late. Since my secretary was killed by an individual who was evading high-speed pursuit (he was doing ~100 mph when he rear-ended her stopped car), I have been impressed by how the cure can be worse than the disease. The guy was being sought for consensual activity with a partner who was not quite of age; though I may not approve of his choice of partners, I don't think that nabbing him was worth the life of a nice lady and making a couple of good kids motherless. Since I might be on the road when someone reported to have torn the label off a mattress is nearby, I am concerned both by unaimed high-speed lead flying around and by the high speed automobile that is now out of control if the driver does manage to get hit. In any event, a police policy does not change laws regarding liability, and anyone hit by someone who did not take care to ensure the bullet's destination has a pretty good case for negligence. The fact that it is policy makes the whole department liable, not just Barney Fife. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ion01 1 #11 July 29, 2009 QuoteQuoteIs the risk to the innocent public from police gunfire, and the risk of mistakes, worth the effort to stop fleeing felons? Fleeing "suspected" felons Blues, Cliff They are FLEEING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At that point whehter or not they did something else wrong they broke the law by FLEEING and that are not just suspected of FLEEING. Why should innocent people DIE because somebody broke the law by running from the police? They are FLEEING and therefore broke the law. Whats the problem? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #12 July 29, 2009 QuoteNews:New Policy Allows Police To Shoot At Fleeing Cars The Chicago Police Department has instituted a major change in policy regarding the use of deadly force. Effective next Monday, police officers will be able to fire their guns under circumstances where they previously could not. The new policy allows police officers to shoot at fleeing vehicles if the driver or passengers are suspected of committing a felony. The old policy allowed officers only to shoot at vehicles that pose a threat to them or others, such as if the driver were trying to run down the officer.Source: http://cbs2chicago.com/local/police.deadly.force.2.1105766.html Is the risk to the innocent public from police gunfire, and the risk of mistakes, worth the effort to stop fleeing felons? The other fun part of this will be the number of felony charges brought up on people that normally wouldn't apply to retroactively justify a cop shooting at the suspect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,476 #13 July 29, 2009 >Why should innocent people DIE because somebody broke the law >by running from the police? Exactly. Shooting at a car (and risking hitting innocent people) doesn't make any sense if someone is just plain fleeing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IMALSUTIGERFAN 0 #14 July 29, 2009 Yes, but good judgement should be used like anytime a cop pulls his weapon he is needs to be clear of what he is shooting. But thats no differant than any other time they shoot. ( the good officers at least)I would it is safer than high speed chases....and if the they are running from the cops than you know they are guilty of something...lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #15 July 29, 2009 Quoteand if the they are running from the cops than you know they are guilty of something.. But guilty of what? I've run from the police after a BASE jump. Does that make me worthy of being shot?-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #16 July 29, 2009 Quote Yes, but good judgement should be used like anytime a cop pulls his weapon he is needs to be clear of what he is shooting. But thats no differant than any other time they shoot. ( the good officers at least)I would it is safer than high speed chases....and if the they are running from the cops than you know they are guilty of something...lol Like what a late fee on a library book? I suppose they teach mind reading at the police academies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #17 July 29, 2009 Quote Should cops shoot at suspected felons fleeing in cars? They don't ?? dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ion01 1 #18 July 29, 2009 Quote>Why should innocent people DIE because somebody broke the law >by running from the police? Exactly. Shooting at a car (and risking hitting innocent people) doesn't make any sense if someone is just plain fleeing. 300-400 poeple die annually from chases. If you stop the chase from ever happening then these people don't die. How many people die from stray police bullets? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #19 July 29, 2009 QuoteBut guilty of what? I've run from the police after a BASE jump. Does that make me worthy of being shot? Ok, let's jump to the "Jack Bauer" scenario; You see suspects fleeing the scene where a nuclear time bomb has been left. Only "they" know the code to stop the bomb from going off. The suspects are driving in an industrial area with no bystanders in danger of getting hurt by a stray bullet. Would it hurt to try to disable the vehicle by shooting at it?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ion01 1 #20 July 29, 2009 QuoteQuoteand if the they are running from the cops than you know they are guilty of something.. But guilty of what? I've run from the police after a BASE jump. Does that make me worthy of being shot? You ran from the police, therefore, you broke the law and you put inoccent people at risk in braking the law. If you get shot you shouldn't have run from the police! I am sure you ran because you knew that if you didn't crash then the consequenses weren't big enough. If they said stop or we'll shoot and you knew they would.....would you keep going? If you knew everytime someone tried to run from the police they got shot at would you run too? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #21 July 29, 2009 Quote Ok, let's jump to the "Jack Bauer" scenario; You've see suspects fleeing the scene where a nuclear time bomb has been left. Only "they" know the code to stop the bomb from going off. The suspects are driving in an industrial area with no bystanders in danger of getting hurt by a stray bullet. Would it hurt to try to disable the vehicle by shooting at it? If we're invoking fiction, I'd recommend the MacGyver response scenario. Something much cleverer that worked perfectly and harm no one improvised from materials on the scene. > /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #22 July 29, 2009 Quote Quote Ok, let's jump to the "Jack Bauer" scenario; You've see suspects fleeing the scene where a nuclear time bomb has been left. Only "they" know the code to stop the bomb from going off. The suspects are driving in an industrial area with no bystanders in danger of getting hurt by a stray bullet. Would it hurt to try to disable the vehicle by shooting at it? If we're invoking fiction, I'd recommend the MacGyver response scenario. Something much cleverer that worked perfectly and harm no one improvised from materials on the scene. > /Marg But what if Tom doesn't chew bubble gum?www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #23 July 29, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Ok, let's jump to the "Jack Bauer" scenario; You've see suspects fleeing the scene where a nuclear time bomb has been left. Only "they" know the code to stop the bomb from going off. The suspects are driving in an industrial area with no bystanders in danger of getting hurt by a stray bullet. Would it hurt to try to disable the vehicle by shooting at it? If we're invoking fiction, I'd recommend the MacGyver response scenario. Something much cleverer that worked perfectly and harm no one improvised from materials on the scene. > But what if Tom doesn't chew bubble gum? He's a BASE jumper - I'm confident he can improvise. Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #24 July 29, 2009 They are FLEEING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At that point whehter or not they did something else wrong they broke the law by FLEEING and that are not just suspected of FLEEING. *** Maybe they are and maybe they aren't. Could be that they happen to be in proximity of a crime and are innocently going about their daily business. In any case I don't recal running from the cops as being a capital crime and certainly I don't trust some near minumum wage civil servant recently returned from Iraq to be judge ,jury, and executioner acting on what little information he may have recieved over a staticky radio from dispatch. YOMV Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #25 July 29, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Ok, let's jump to the "Jack Bauer" scenario; You've see suspects fleeing the scene where a nuclear time bomb has been left. Only "they" know the code to stop the bomb from going off. The suspects are driving in an industrial area with no bystanders in danger of getting hurt by a stray bullet. Would it hurt to try to disable the vehicle by shooting at it? If we're invoking fiction, I'd recommend the MacGyver response scenario. Something much cleverer that worked perfectly and harm no one improvised from materials on the scene. > But what if Tom doesn't chew bubble gum? He's a BASE jumper - I'm confident he can improvise. Oh didn't realize BASE jumpers were synonymous with improvisation. www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
