warpedskydiver 0 #1 October 1, 2008 On the Second Amendment, Don’t Believe Obama The presidential primary season is finally over, and it is now time for gun owners to take a careful look at just where nominee Barack Obama stands on issues related to the Second Amendment. During the primaries, Obama tried to hide behind vague statements of support for “sportsmen” or unfounded claims of general support for the right to keep and bear arms. But his real record, based on votes taken, political associations, and long standing positions, shows that Barack Obama is a serious threat to Second Amendment liberties. Don’t listen to his campaign rhetoric! Look instead to what he has said and done during his entire political career. FACT: Barack Obama opposes four of the five Supreme Court justices who affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms. He voted against the confirmation of Alito and Roberts and he has stated he would not have appointed Thomas or Scalia.17 FACT: Barack Obama voted for an Illinois State Senate bill to ban and confiscate “assault weapons,” but the bill was so poorly crafted, it would have also banned most semi-auto and single and double barrel shotguns commonly used by sportsmen.18 FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1 FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.15 FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3 FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.9 FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2 FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4 FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people who use firearms in self-defense.5 FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6 FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case. FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7 FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”8 FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9 FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10 FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11 FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12 FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13 FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2 FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14 FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month handgun purchase restrictions.16 FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.9 FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9 FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9 1. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 219, July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00219) 2. Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996. The responses on this survey were described in “Obama had greater role on liberal survey,” Politico, March 31, 2008. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9269.html) 3. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 217, Kennedy amendment July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00217) 4. David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, "Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' On Gun Owners' Rights," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, http://blogs.abcnews.com, 2/15/08. (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/02/obama-common-se.html) 5. Illinois Senate, SB 2165, March 25, 2004, vote 20 and May 25, 2004, vote 3. 6. “Fact Check: No News In Obama's Consistent Record.” Obama ’08, December 11, 2007. (http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/12/11/fact_check_no_news_in_obamas_c.php) 7. “Candidates' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote,” Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Wednesday, April 2, 2008, and "Keyes, Obama Are Far Apart On Guns," Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04. (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_560181.html) 8. 1998 Joyce Foundation Annual Report, p. 7. 9. “Obama and Gun Control,” The Volokh Conspiracy, taken from the Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999. (http://www.volokh.com/posts/1203389334.shtml) 10. Illinois Senate, May 5, 2002, SB 1936 Con., vote 26. 11. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2003, SB 2163, vote 18. 12. “Clinton, Edwards, Obama on gun control,” Radio Iowa, Sunday, April 22, 2007. (http://learfield.typepad.com/radioiowa/2007/04/clinton_edwards.html) 13. Chicago Tribune blogs, “Barack Obama: NIU Shootings call for action,” February 15, 2008, (http://blogs.trb.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/barack_obama_comments_on_shoot.html) 14. Barack Obama campaign website: “As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment . . .” (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/urbanpolicy/#crime-and-law-enforcement.) 15. Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes (http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm and http://www.ontheissues.org/IL_2004_Senate_3rd.htm) Oct 21, 2004. 16. Illinois Senate, May 16, 2003, HB 2579, vote 34. 17. United States Senate vote 245, September 29, 2005 and vote 2, January 31, 2006 and Saddleback Forum, August 16, 2008. 18. Illinois Senate Judiciary Committee, March 13, 2003. To see the vote tally go to: http://www.nrapvf.org/Media/pdf/sb1195_obama.pdf. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #2 October 1, 2008 FACT: Bold makes anything more "factual." quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #3 October 1, 2008 Quote FACT: Bold makes anything more "factual." Fact: YOU have nothing to refute these facts, the sources are noted, but you would rather try and detract from the topic, and focus your mind on me rather than on anyones Constitutional Rights. So if you have nothing to say, try shutting the hell up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AWL71 0 #4 October 1, 2008 QuoteOn the Second Amendment, Don’t Believe Obama The presidential primary season is finally over, and it is now time for gun owners to take a careful look at just where nominee Barack Obama stands on issues related to the Second Amendment. During the primaries, Obama tried to hide behind vague statements of support for “sportsmen” or unfounded claims of general support for the right to keep and bear arms. But his real record, based on votes taken, political associations, and long standing positions, shows that Barack Obama is a serious threat to Second Amendment liberties. Don’t listen to his campaign rhetoric! Look instead to what he has said and done during his entire political career. FACT: Barack Obama opposes four of the five Supreme Court justices who affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms. He voted against the confirmation of Alito and Roberts and he has stated he would not have appointed Thomas or Scalia.17 FACT: Barack Obama voted for an Illinois State Senate bill to ban and confiscate “assault weapons,” but the bill was so poorly crafted, it would have also banned most semi-auto and single and double barrel shotguns commonly used by sportsmen.18 FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1 FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.15 FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3 FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.9 FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2 FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4 FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people who use firearms in self-defense.5 FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6 FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case. FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7 FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”8 FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9 FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10 FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11 FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12 FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13 FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2 FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14 FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month handgun purchase restrictions.16 FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.9 FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9 FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9 1. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 219, July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00219) 2. Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996. The responses on this survey were described in “Obama had greater role on liberal survey,” Politico, March 31, 2008. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9269.html) 3. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 217, Kennedy amendment July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00217) 4. David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, "Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' On Gun Owners' Rights," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, http://blogs.abcnews.com, 2/15/08. (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/02/obama-common-se.html) 5. Illinois Senate, SB 2165, March 25, 2004, vote 20 and May 25, 2004, vote 3. 6. “Fact Check: No News In Obama's Consistent Record.” Obama ’08, December 11, 2007. (http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/12/11/fact_check_no_news_in_obamas_c.php) 7. “Candidates' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote,” Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Wednesday, April 2, 2008, and "Keyes, Obama Are Far Apart On Guns," Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04. (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_560181.html) 8. 1998 Joyce Foundation Annual Report, p. 7. 9. “Obama and Gun Control,” The Volokh Conspiracy, taken from the Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999. (http://www.volokh.com/posts/1203389334.shtml) 10. Illinois Senate, May 5, 2002, SB 1936 Con., vote 26. 11. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2003, SB 2163, vote 18. 12. “Clinton, Edwards, Obama on gun control,” Radio Iowa, Sunday, April 22, 2007. (http://learfield.typepad.com/radioiowa/2007/04/clinton_edwards.html) 13. Chicago Tribune blogs, “Barack Obama: NIU Shootings call for action,” February 15, 2008, (http://blogs.trb.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/barack_obama_comments_on_shoot.html) 14. Barack Obama campaign website: “As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment . . .” (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/urbanpolicy/#crime-and-law-enforcement.) 15. Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes (http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm and http://www.ontheissues.org/IL_2004_Senate_3rd.htm) Oct 21, 2004. 16. Illinois Senate, May 16, 2003, HB 2579, vote 34. 17. United States Senate vote 245, September 29, 2005 and vote 2, January 31, 2006 and Saddleback Forum, August 16, 2008. 18. Illinois Senate Judiciary Committee, March 13, 2003. To see the vote tally go to: http://www.nrapvf.org/Media/pdf/sb1195_obama.pdf. I have used some of this information to show people just how BO supports the 2nd Amendment. He says he does but his actions from the past show he is lying through his teeth. Imagine.The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alw 0 #5 October 1, 2008 One thing I've learned in my years on this planet is that the pen really isn't mightier than the Glock. NO REALLY . . . IT'S NOT. --------------------------------------------- Every day is a bonus - every night is an adventure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #6 October 1, 2008 Quote Quote FACT: Bold makes anything more "factual." Fact: YOU have nothing to refute these facts, the sources are noted, but you would rather try and detract from the topic, and focus your mind on me rather than on anyones Constitutional Rights. So if you have nothing to say, try shutting the hell up. Are you familiar with the old saying, "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke"? Dude, you can't take a joke.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #7 October 1, 2008 Quote FACT: Bold makes anything more "factual." ...and everything written in italics makes it more sophisticated......whereas everything underlined is more authoritative......and everything in code/courier is more raw... ...and everything written with a URL link makes you click it... So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #8 October 1, 2008 I'd call it obsession with Obama - or 2nd amendment? You're the only one who knows. Is this all you know (better: figured out) about this one candidate? Onesided. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #9 October 1, 2008 Good thing I'm not a one issue voter.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AWL71 0 #10 October 1, 2008 Obama is a lousy candidate on many issues, not just the 2nd. Now you know.The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #11 October 1, 2008 [reply) .... Now you know. I prefer to create my own opinion, seen from the outside and from a distance. dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #12 October 1, 2008 QuoteAre you familiar with the old saying, "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke"? I prefer making them a joke when they cant take a fuck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #13 October 1, 2008 Quote Quote Are you familiar with the old saying, "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke"? I prefer making them a joke when they cant take a fuck. Good one Jeanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misternatural 0 #14 October 1, 2008 >I prefer making them a joke when they cant take a fuck. OK I'm confused now-who's fucking whom? Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires. D S #3.1415 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #15 October 1, 2008 That seems to be an impartial and verifiable summary - NOT. Last time you tried this it turned out that your claims were mostly about making theft of guns from police stations and forging FOID cards a felony, and similar things which most everyone except criminals would think quite reasonable.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #16 October 1, 2008 No. that is all you were willing to see, I posted his positions on many pieces of legislation. You only see what you want to see, and intentionally leave out all other facts in your efforts to make others believe as you do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #17 October 1, 2008 QuoteNo. that is all you were willing to see, I posted his positions on many pieces of legislation. Indeed, like stiffer penalties for those who commit murder in churches. Your tactic is to post long lists of things claiming they show Obama in a bad light, not figuring that some people actually check. You've been rumbled.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #18 October 2, 2008 Only in your mind, once again, you ignored anything that does not fit into your perception of reality. When I post actual records I make no effort to hide or disguise anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #19 October 2, 2008 Sadly, just about everything at first listed as "fact" is tinged with opinion. I hate that. it moved more to fact later on, but I'd already been lost. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverborg 0 #21 October 2, 2008 QuoteSadly, just about everything at first listed as "fact" is tinged with opinion. I hate that. it moved more to fact later on, but I'd already been lost. I'm gonna hafta agree here. I'm aware of Obama's gun control policies, and I don't like em anymore than you do Warped, but little articles written like this don't help our case much. I'd rather see a big report of "what the bill is" and how he voted. I lose interest when I see the words to try to instill emotion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverborg 0 #22 October 2, 2008 sorry, posted that the same time you did Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #23 October 2, 2008 How about these then: From his own website: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Fact check -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q: Is the D.C. law prohibiting ownership of handguns consistent with an individual's right to bear arms? A: As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, "No, my writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns." Actually, Obama's writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line: 35. Do you support state legislation to: a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes. b. ban assault weapons? Yes. c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q: You said recently, "I have no intention of taking away folks' guns." But you support the D.C. handgun ban, and you've said that it's constitutional. How do you reconcile those two positions? A: Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it's important for us to recognize that we've got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NO ONE has an issue with illegal guns...But why the problem with legal assualt weapons? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Obama sought moderate gun control measures, such as a 2000 bill he cosponsored to limit handgun purchases to one per month -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry"--Obama -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons. * Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms. * Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms. Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Barack Obama’s presidential campaign has worked to assure uneasy gun owners that he believes the Constitution protects their rights and that he doesn’t want to take away their guns. But before he became a national political figure, he sat on the board of a Chicago-based foundation that doled out at least nine grants totaling nearly $2.7 million to groups that advocated the opposite positions. The foundation funded legal scholarship advancing the theory that the Second Amendment does not protect individual gun owners’ rights, as well as two groups that advocated handgun bans. And it paid to support a book called “Every Handgun Is Aimed at You: The Case for Banning Handguns.” But the Joyce Foundation in 1999 awarded $84,000 to the Chicago-Kent College of Law for a symposium on the theory that the Second Amendment does not protect an individual’s right to bear arms, but rather only a state’s right to arm its militia. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Post quotes Obama out of context, claiming that he only wanted to tax “certain types” of guns in 1999. But the full sentence in the 1999 article reads, “Obama is also seeking to increase the federal taxes by 500 percent on the sale of firearm, ammunition [sic] -- weapons he says are most commonly used in firearm deaths.” Chinta Strausberg, Obama unveils federal gun bill, Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999, at 3. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On March 13, 2003, Obama voted in the Illinois Senate Judiciary Committee for a bill that would have enacted a much broader gun ban. (The vote tally sheet is available at http://www.nrapvf.org/Media/pdf/sb1195_obama.pdf). The bill under debate that day, SB 1195 (available at http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/93/...300SB1195lv.pdf), would have made it illegal to “knowingly manufacture, deliver, or possess” a “semiautomatic assault weapon.” The bill defined a “semiautomatic assault weapon” to include “any firearm having a caliber of 50 [sic] or greater.” See SB 1195, page 2, line 10 (emphasis added). Under this bill, a firearm did not actually have to be semi-automatic to be a “semiautomatic assault weapon.” Shotguns 28-gauge or larger (by far the majority of shotguns owned in the United States) are all “.50-caliber or greater.” See National Rifle Ass’n, Firearms Fact Book 183 (3d ed. 1989). SB 1195 did exclude any firearm that “is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever or slide action” and “any semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than 5 rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine.” SB 1195 p.3, lines 12-23. However, the bill did not exclude firearms with hinge or similar actions, such as single-shot or double-barreled shotguns used by millions of hunters. Anyone who possessed one of these firearms in Illinois 90 days after the effective date would have had to “destroy the weapon or device, render it permanently inoperable, relinquish it to a law enforcement agency, or remove it from the state.” SB 1195, p. 5, line 33. Anyone who still possessed a banned gun would have been subject to a felony sentence. SB 1195, p. 5, line 15. This “seizure and surrender” provision was much more severe than the former federal “assault weapons” ban, which had a “grandfather clause” to allow current lawful owners to keep their guns. See 18 U.S.C. 922(v)(2) (repealed). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- He has voted several times to ban weapons. He has made several statements that he wants to ban weapons. He voted to take certain types of weapons from the populace, or make them criminals."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #24 October 2, 2008 Shortly kallend will either make a statement that has nothing to do with your response, or say it is all just anecdotal, and not fact in his mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #25 October 2, 2008 Just took a random sample of those "facts." Here's the first one I looked at: FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month handgun purchase restrictions. (Ref: Illinois Senate, May 16, 2003, HB 2579, vote 34.) Synopsys from the Illinois State Legislature Home Page for HB2579: "Amends the Illinois Vehicle Code. Provides that the removal of a false or secret compartment from a motor vehicle, or the promise to do so, shall not be the basis for a defense to forfeiture of the motor vehicle under the Criminal Code of 1961 and shall not be the basis for the court to release the vehicle to the owner. Increases the penalty for owning or operating a motor vehicle with the knowledge that it contains a false or secret compartment from a Class C misdemeanor to a Class 4 felony." Huh! It has nothing to do with guns. It's almost as if some gun nuts fabricated a lot of "facts" and hoped no one checked them. Coming up next - Obama is a Muslim who won't say the Pledge of Allegiance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
