Twoply 0 #1 June 6, 2008 I'm not saying they shouldn't be exposd to the church, but the fact is that she believes so much that she is right, and I'm going to hell. I say let's expose them for a few years, and if they want to pursue it, then so be it. If they want to drop out, so be it. I told her I would not sway them one way or the other and I wont. She wants to force them to go to church until they are "confirmed." I dont know what that means, just that they have to go until they are 12 or so. I find spirituality out on a rock cliff or hiking in the woods. I've found what I think is my path to happy. But I'm also not against the fact that I wont change in the future. Maybe I'll turn religious and start going to a church. I'm not against religion. Anything that brings joy to a person's heart can't be a bad thing. But I think it's being forced down their throat too early in life. We agree on being respectful and disciplined, but religion is kind of it's own subject. I jsut cant understand why she thinks so whole heartedly that if someone doesn't belive in Jesus, they are going to hell. What about the undescovered tribe in Wireityeenska? If they haven't been discovered by a missionary, are they going to hell even though they've never heard of him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #2 June 6, 2008 That's a tough question and one I'm not sure there's an answer for, to be honest. I think the kids should be allowed to make their own choice, but there's influence in both directions by the parents and by society. I don't know if that influence would (or could) shift the kid's views of religion or their decision about religion.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #3 June 6, 2008 I don't know what to tell you. I'm pretty sure I would never marry a Christian, much less have kids with one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #4 June 6, 2008 Does your wife make you go to church with her? If not then do you? IMHO You should to, at the very least, support her since church is very much social. If you should then so should your kids. Yes I realize that's ridiculous because I likely wouldn't go if my future wife were that religious. Just seems like the right thing to do as a husband. What can I say? www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #5 June 7, 2008 Quote That's a tough question and one I'm not sure there's an answer for, to be honest. I think the kids should be allowed to make their own choice, but there's influence in both directions by the parents and by society. I don't know if that influence would (or could) shift the kid's views of religion or their decision about religion. I was raised with the freedom to make my own choice. I even had an open enough mind to attend church a couple times with a friend when I was 7 years old. All it did was leave a bad taste in my mouth. No it wasn't Catholic you sick ass! My mother is buddhist and practiced regularly while I was growing up. She'd ask if I wanted to pray with her and every single time I would just say not thanks and walk away. To her credit she never got angry about that. How awesome is that? Encouragement without the pressure. I think I turned out ok. Unfortunately I'm supposedly going to hell. www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #6 June 7, 2008 Those are some good things to figure out before you have kids with someone. Is it too late?-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #7 June 7, 2008 QuoteI'm not saying they shouldn't be exposd to the church, but the fact is that she believes so much that she is right, and I'm going to hell. I say let's expose them for a few years, and if they want to pursue it, then so be it. If they want to drop out, so be it. I told her I would not sway them one way or the other and I wont. She wants to force them to go to church until they are "confirmed." I dont know what that means, just that they have to go until they are 12 or so. I find spirituality out on a rock cliff or hiking in the woods. I've found what I think is my path to happy. But I'm also not against the fact that I wont change in the future. Maybe I'll turn religious and start going to a church. I'm not against religion. Anything that brings joy to a person's heart can't be a bad thing. But I think it's being forced down their throat too early in life. We agree on being respectful and disciplined, but religion is kind of it's own subject. I jsut cant understand why she thinks so whole heartedly that if someone doesn't belive in Jesus, they are going to hell. What about the undescovered tribe in Wireityeenska? If they haven't been discovered by a missionary, are they going to hell even though they've never heard of him? Either way, for you to give them whats best, your going to have to help develop thier consciences. I dont believe that learning about Jesus is ever a bad thing, no matter where the setting, but it is never good to use oppression. I like downwards view...encouragement without pressure. If having a relationship with God has taught me anything, it is that he is the teacher. You feel a connection with nature becasue you are naturally connected, you will find incredible revelations in your heart there for sure, but the greatest connection is definitely a relationship with God. If you see beauty in his creation, then you see beauty in his heart, if you see beauty in his heart, then you will come closer to understanding just how beautiful you are to him. If you truly want to know the answer to your question, you would read a Gospel with a heart to understand it as one being taught. Im assuming you may not have read it?"We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rynodigsmusic 0 #8 June 7, 2008 "What about the undescovered tribe in Wireityeenska? If they haven't been discovered by a missionary, are they going to hell even though they've never heard of him?"Quote The Gospel says that salvation is found through Christ, but not that only Christians will be saved. God knows the hearts of men. Salvation is about recieving grace. We leave this world with the heart we had. A heart for the world and the things in it will lose what it found, but a heart for the spirit and the things in that will last forever. There is sooooo much to say about this.... Imagine that there is this absolute greatest gift ever, greater than your family and even your own life...the most sought after gift in all existance, all we have to do is recieve it. If it is in front of us and we dont take it, but rather complain that it wasnt "shown" to others, then we literally have no excuse do we? What makes more sense is to take the gift first and just be appreciative that it was offered to you. Believe it or not, the gift will be offered to everyone, even those who are already gone. You should read a Gospel."We didn't start the fire" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ryoder 1,401 #9 June 7, 2008 Quote She wants to force them to go to church until they are "confirmed." I dont know what that means, just that they have to go until they are 12 or so. Just speaking from my own personal experience, that sounds like a way to ensure they grow up to be atheists."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #10 June 7, 2008 I am a "recovering" Catholic, but have found in my adult life that many of the basic values I learned in CCD classes as a kid have not posed any real liability in my perspective. Now, having said that, another perspective in accepting your spouse's faith is that faith is not 100% understandable. Also, it is not an uncommon tradition for a child's spiritual development to follow the mother's religion (in my case, my dad was Protestant, my mom obviously Catholic). If your wife is that adamant about it, it's not unreasonable to expect that she will monitor the Catechism education.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnDeere 0 #11 June 7, 2008 I think you NEVER should have got married. The two highest ressons for devorce is money and religion. Did you all not talk about religion before you got married???Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #12 June 7, 2008 In Catholicism, confirmed means you are an adult in the eyes of the church and may make your own choices. It's technically a confirmation of the baptism (you make your vows for yourself, instead of your parents doing it for you). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bjjman 0 #13 June 7, 2008 Are you married? I definitely take your stance. It's terrible to force someone to do something like that. Let them make up their own minds. I went to private, religious (Christian, Presbyterian, Episcopal, & Catholic) schools from pre-school through 9th grade. It was a good balance because it was never pushed by my parents, but I got it at school. I never minded going to chapel, and as a matter of fact, they made it a lot of fun for us in elementary school. I wouldn't consider myself a "religious" person per se, but I do consider myself spiritually fulfilled. I don't attend church, and I certainly won't make my daughter (unless, of course, my fiance changes her tune by that point and then I'll be revisiting this thread). Assuming you lose the battle, it might be a good thing for your kids to grow up knowing you're not very religious. That way, Mom is and Dad isn't, so subconsciously they know either is okay."Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Albert Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #14 June 7, 2008 I don't have a horse in this race. I'm never going to raise a kid, but if I did I think what I would try to do is expose him/her to as many different religions as possible and also to the idea of being a skeptic. That is to say, learn what makes one religion different from another and learn to differentiate between beliefs and facts. I can't even imagine trying to raise a child and only exposing them to one view of the world. That may have made sense when that view was the only one they'd ever have to deal with, but to me it's foolish today. The world simply is too large.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #15 June 7, 2008 QuoteI definitely take your stance. It's terrible to force someone to do something like that. Let them make up their own mindsYes, it's just awful. We see the results of laissez faire parenting everyday. Don't make the little ones do anything that disturbs their precious little sensitivities. We have a couple of generations of children who are crippled mentally and physically because of this attitude. Ten year old children who weigh 200lb. and can barely walk. 18 yr. olds who can't read, write or figure at a grade school level. I saw a teenager yesterday walking down the street yesterday, who was virtually one armed, because his other arm was used to keep his pants from falling around his ankles. Go ahead and ask the children to make all of their own decisions, and see what you get. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JackC 0 #16 June 7, 2008 in the same way as Amnesty works tirelessly to free political prisoners the world over, we should work to free the children of the world from the religions which, with parental approval, damage minds too young to understand what is happening to them. from http://richarddawkins.net/article,118,Religions-Real-Child-Abuse,Richard-Dawkins I think he has a point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,155 #17 June 7, 2008 If you want your kids to have an honest exposure to religion, they probably ought to go for a few years. I have no feeling that not going to church leads to automatic hell, but an honest exposure to something is how you learn. But you have to agree on a church to bring them to. Go visit them; make sure it's one that has positive values that you can live with, and some fun. In my opinion, if you're going to do this, make sure it's a church that encourages questioning, and not one that has all the answers. Then, if and/or when they decide to quit (which comes as they hit middle school or college most likely), they'll have a basis on which to form an opinion, and not just their parents' instructions. Don't let it rip your family up. Talk to your wife about it. Neither of you will be completely happy with the result, but your kids will thank you for having talked about it and finding a path for the family. Really. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sandi 0 #18 June 7, 2008 QuoteYes, it's just awful. We see the results of laissez faire parenting everyday. Don't make the little ones do anything that disturbs their precious little sensitivities. How does not taking your children to church equal laissez faire parenting? Does taking your children to any church, temple, etc make you a good parent, or is there a specific religion associated with good parenting? QuoteTen year old children who weigh 200lb. and can barely walk. 18 yr. olds who can't read, write or figure at a grade school level. I saw a teenager yesterday walking down the street yesterday, who was virtually one armed, because his other arm was used to keep his pants from falling around his ankles. How is any of this related to church attendance? Are you saying childhood obesity and illiteracy are the result of not going to church? Do you know that the kids in your examples have never been to church? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #19 June 7, 2008 QuoteQuoteI definitely take your stance. It's terrible to force someone to do something like that. Let them make up their own mindsYes, it's just awful. We see the results of laissez faire parenting everyday. Don't make the little ones do anything that disturbs their precious little sensitivities. We have a couple of generations of children who are crippled mentally and physically because of this attitude. Ten year old children who weigh 200lb. and can barely walk. 18 yr. olds who can't read, write or figure at a grade school level. I saw a teenager yesterday walking down the street yesterday, who was virtually one armed, because his other arm was used to keep his pants from falling around his ankles. Go ahead and ask the children to make all of their own decisions, and see what you get. Indeed, just because kids are learning at a faster rate than when us older folks went to school, that does not equate to an enhanced ability to deduce and make complex decisions where "schoolbook" scenarios do not apply. However, I do not subscribe fully to the idea that kids are the ones that make these decisions. It is, in fact, decisions by parents and schools that want to give out trophies to every kids, ensure there are no "losers" in life, being fat "just happens", and phys ed is not fair to one kid, so the other 30 must suffer...unfortunately, kids did not make these decisions. One thing in my own personal observation is that kids being raised in a tight family environment seem to flourish more than their peers who do not. Religious upbringing is a component of that, but not a lynch pin. A seven year old is not qualified to make any grand decisions, except what kind of match-box cars or barbie dolls to play with.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bjjman 0 #20 June 7, 2008 Just quoting for effect, in case someone scrolls past Royd's original: QuoteQuoteI definitely take your stance. It's terrible to force someone to do something like that. Let them make up their own mindsYes, it's just awful. We see the results of laissez faire parenting everyday. Don't make the little ones do anything that disturbs their precious little sensitivities. We have a couple of generations of children who are crippled mentally and physically because of this attitude. Ten year old children who weigh 200lb. and can barely walk. 18 yr. olds who can't read, write or figure at a grade school level. I saw a teenager yesterday walking down the street yesterday, who was virtually one armed, because his other arm was used to keep his pants from falling around his ankles. Go ahead and ask the children to make all of their own decisions, and see what you get."Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Albert Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #21 June 7, 2008 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, it's just awful. We see the results of laissez faire parenting everyday. Don't make the little ones do anything that disturbs their precious little sensitivities. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How does not taking your children to church equal laissez faire parenting? Does taking your children to any church, temple, etc make you a good parent, or is there a specific religion associated with good parenting? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ten year old children who weigh 200lb. and can barely walk. 18 yr. olds who can't read, write or figure at a grade school level. I saw a teenager yesterday walking down the street yesterday, who was virtually one armed, because his other arm was used to keep his pants from falling around his ankles. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteHow is any of this related to church attendance? Are you saying childhood obesity and illiteracy are the result of not going to church? Do you know that the kids in your examples have never been to church? If you ask the five yr. old on Sunday morning, if he wants to go to church;as we perceive church; hard pews, long, boring sermons, what do you think his choice is going to be? He looks over on the couch and sees the video game and thinks, "Hmmm, 3 hours without mom telling me to do this or that." Admittedly, being a member of one of the largest churches in the nation, they are geared with ministries for all age groups, with enthusiastic leaders to keep up the interest. The misconception is that learning about religion or the Bible, is like getting times tables pounded into your head, or being told to eat your vegetables because they are good for you. Many of today's parents believe that a child having free rein over the choices they make, is good parenting. The OP is trying to separate religion from all of the other aspects in life, as if it should totally be the child's choice, regardless of age, whether they go to church or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FlyingJ 0 #22 June 7, 2008 I feel that kids at some point should be able to make a choice. I think they need to be able to make an educated choice though, which is tough to do with no personal exposure. I don't believe there is a clear cut path for every kid though, it's going to depend on maturity, etc. My parents grew up in different churches and didn't like attending any but their own. As kids we spent time in both and as I (the oldest) started asking questions and sharing opinions they felt I was at a point I could make the decision for myself whether or not to participate and I distanced myself from any religion. My brother (2 years younger) reached the same point and his decision was to make religion a much more significant part of his life. Now as an adult religion has become a HUGE part of his life. My younger two siblings didn't have quite the same opportunity as we as a family were no longer going to church regularly. They were pretty much handed the position of religion being a very informal part of their life and in time they too made their own decisions. I felt bad they didn't get the same opportunity for a well rounded foundation before making a choice, though as they have gotten older (both mid-20s now) they have fallen into varying levels of interest in religion. I am not a parent, but I'd like to think that most parents would like to see their kids grow up as free thinkers who make decisions based on past experience and future expectations. Parents should feel responsible for helping their kids to get the foundation they need to be able to make decisions for themselves when the time is appropriate.Killing threads since 2004. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #23 June 8, 2008 Quote I'm not saying they shouldn't be exposd to the church, but the fact is that she believes so much that she is right, and I'm going to hell. I wouldn't even say they _should_ be exposed to the church. They might, but definitely shouldn't. Show her some recent pedophilia cases among Fathers. Note that none of them was ever suspected before the things went discovered. Is she sure it's not the case in her church as well? Quote I jsut cant understand why she thinks so whole heartedly that if someone doesn't belive in Jesus, they are going to hell. Because someone brought her to the church when she was young. Quote What about the undescovered tribe in Wireityeenska? If they haven't been discovered by a missionary, are they going to hell even though they've never heard of him? I'd even say that if Jesus was so powerful, nobody would ever need anyone to hear about him. We'd all born knowing about Jesus.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sandi 0 #24 June 8, 2008 I completely agree with you that children shouldn't be given free reign to make their own decisions. I also agree that, unfortunately, many parents do. A decision regarding attending church is up to the adults. My point is that parents pass on their beliefs and values to their children. Parents may choose to take their kids to church, temple, or wherever, every week or twice a year or not at all. That is not related to good or bad parenting. To the OP, the decision about whether to take your children to church is something that should be decided and agreed upon by the parents. There isn't a right or wrong answer, decide what you both can support and do what works for your family. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georgerussia 0 #25 June 8, 2008 Quote I dont believe that learning about Jesus is ever a bad thing, no matter where the setting, but it is never good to use oppression. I have never seen any church or religion which would encourage actual learning about Jesus. They only encourage remembering and frequently repeating their own teaching about Jesus, in most cases not even mentioning there are 100+ other teachings about Jesus, none of which could be proven to be true.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 1 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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ryoder 1,401 #9 June 7, 2008 Quote She wants to force them to go to church until they are "confirmed." I dont know what that means, just that they have to go until they are 12 or so. Just speaking from my own personal experience, that sounds like a way to ensure they grow up to be atheists."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #10 June 7, 2008 I am a "recovering" Catholic, but have found in my adult life that many of the basic values I learned in CCD classes as a kid have not posed any real liability in my perspective. Now, having said that, another perspective in accepting your spouse's faith is that faith is not 100% understandable. Also, it is not an uncommon tradition for a child's spiritual development to follow the mother's religion (in my case, my dad was Protestant, my mom obviously Catholic). If your wife is that adamant about it, it's not unreasonable to expect that she will monitor the Catechism education.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #11 June 7, 2008 I think you NEVER should have got married. The two highest ressons for devorce is money and religion. Did you all not talk about religion before you got married???Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #12 June 7, 2008 In Catholicism, confirmed means you are an adult in the eyes of the church and may make your own choices. It's technically a confirmation of the baptism (you make your vows for yourself, instead of your parents doing it for you). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bjjman 0 #13 June 7, 2008 Are you married? I definitely take your stance. It's terrible to force someone to do something like that. Let them make up their own minds. I went to private, religious (Christian, Presbyterian, Episcopal, & Catholic) schools from pre-school through 9th grade. It was a good balance because it was never pushed by my parents, but I got it at school. I never minded going to chapel, and as a matter of fact, they made it a lot of fun for us in elementary school. I wouldn't consider myself a "religious" person per se, but I do consider myself spiritually fulfilled. I don't attend church, and I certainly won't make my daughter (unless, of course, my fiance changes her tune by that point and then I'll be revisiting this thread). Assuming you lose the battle, it might be a good thing for your kids to grow up knowing you're not very religious. That way, Mom is and Dad isn't, so subconsciously they know either is okay."Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Albert Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #14 June 7, 2008 I don't have a horse in this race. I'm never going to raise a kid, but if I did I think what I would try to do is expose him/her to as many different religions as possible and also to the idea of being a skeptic. That is to say, learn what makes one religion different from another and learn to differentiate between beliefs and facts. I can't even imagine trying to raise a child and only exposing them to one view of the world. That may have made sense when that view was the only one they'd ever have to deal with, but to me it's foolish today. The world simply is too large.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #15 June 7, 2008 QuoteI definitely take your stance. It's terrible to force someone to do something like that. Let them make up their own mindsYes, it's just awful. We see the results of laissez faire parenting everyday. Don't make the little ones do anything that disturbs their precious little sensitivities. We have a couple of generations of children who are crippled mentally and physically because of this attitude. Ten year old children who weigh 200lb. and can barely walk. 18 yr. olds who can't read, write or figure at a grade school level. I saw a teenager yesterday walking down the street yesterday, who was virtually one armed, because his other arm was used to keep his pants from falling around his ankles. Go ahead and ask the children to make all of their own decisions, and see what you get. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #16 June 7, 2008 in the same way as Amnesty works tirelessly to free political prisoners the world over, we should work to free the children of the world from the religions which, with parental approval, damage minds too young to understand what is happening to them. from http://richarddawkins.net/article,118,Religions-Real-Child-Abuse,Richard-Dawkins I think he has a point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,155 #17 June 7, 2008 If you want your kids to have an honest exposure to religion, they probably ought to go for a few years. I have no feeling that not going to church leads to automatic hell, but an honest exposure to something is how you learn. But you have to agree on a church to bring them to. Go visit them; make sure it's one that has positive values that you can live with, and some fun. In my opinion, if you're going to do this, make sure it's a church that encourages questioning, and not one that has all the answers. Then, if and/or when they decide to quit (which comes as they hit middle school or college most likely), they'll have a basis on which to form an opinion, and not just their parents' instructions. Don't let it rip your family up. Talk to your wife about it. Neither of you will be completely happy with the result, but your kids will thank you for having talked about it and finding a path for the family. Really. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sandi 0 #18 June 7, 2008 QuoteYes, it's just awful. We see the results of laissez faire parenting everyday. Don't make the little ones do anything that disturbs their precious little sensitivities. How does not taking your children to church equal laissez faire parenting? Does taking your children to any church, temple, etc make you a good parent, or is there a specific religion associated with good parenting? QuoteTen year old children who weigh 200lb. and can barely walk. 18 yr. olds who can't read, write or figure at a grade school level. I saw a teenager yesterday walking down the street yesterday, who was virtually one armed, because his other arm was used to keep his pants from falling around his ankles. How is any of this related to church attendance? Are you saying childhood obesity and illiteracy are the result of not going to church? Do you know that the kids in your examples have never been to church? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #19 June 7, 2008 QuoteQuoteI definitely take your stance. It's terrible to force someone to do something like that. Let them make up their own mindsYes, it's just awful. We see the results of laissez faire parenting everyday. Don't make the little ones do anything that disturbs their precious little sensitivities. We have a couple of generations of children who are crippled mentally and physically because of this attitude. Ten year old children who weigh 200lb. and can barely walk. 18 yr. olds who can't read, write or figure at a grade school level. I saw a teenager yesterday walking down the street yesterday, who was virtually one armed, because his other arm was used to keep his pants from falling around his ankles. Go ahead and ask the children to make all of their own decisions, and see what you get. Indeed, just because kids are learning at a faster rate than when us older folks went to school, that does not equate to an enhanced ability to deduce and make complex decisions where "schoolbook" scenarios do not apply. However, I do not subscribe fully to the idea that kids are the ones that make these decisions. It is, in fact, decisions by parents and schools that want to give out trophies to every kids, ensure there are no "losers" in life, being fat "just happens", and phys ed is not fair to one kid, so the other 30 must suffer...unfortunately, kids did not make these decisions. One thing in my own personal observation is that kids being raised in a tight family environment seem to flourish more than their peers who do not. Religious upbringing is a component of that, but not a lynch pin. A seven year old is not qualified to make any grand decisions, except what kind of match-box cars or barbie dolls to play with.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bjjman 0 #20 June 7, 2008 Just quoting for effect, in case someone scrolls past Royd's original: QuoteQuoteI definitely take your stance. It's terrible to force someone to do something like that. Let them make up their own mindsYes, it's just awful. We see the results of laissez faire parenting everyday. Don't make the little ones do anything that disturbs their precious little sensitivities. We have a couple of generations of children who are crippled mentally and physically because of this attitude. Ten year old children who weigh 200lb. and can barely walk. 18 yr. olds who can't read, write or figure at a grade school level. I saw a teenager yesterday walking down the street yesterday, who was virtually one armed, because his other arm was used to keep his pants from falling around his ankles. Go ahead and ask the children to make all of their own decisions, and see what you get."Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Albert Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #21 June 7, 2008 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, it's just awful. We see the results of laissez faire parenting everyday. Don't make the little ones do anything that disturbs their precious little sensitivities. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How does not taking your children to church equal laissez faire parenting? Does taking your children to any church, temple, etc make you a good parent, or is there a specific religion associated with good parenting? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ten year old children who weigh 200lb. and can barely walk. 18 yr. olds who can't read, write or figure at a grade school level. I saw a teenager yesterday walking down the street yesterday, who was virtually one armed, because his other arm was used to keep his pants from falling around his ankles. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteHow is any of this related to church attendance? Are you saying childhood obesity and illiteracy are the result of not going to church? Do you know that the kids in your examples have never been to church? If you ask the five yr. old on Sunday morning, if he wants to go to church;as we perceive church; hard pews, long, boring sermons, what do you think his choice is going to be? He looks over on the couch and sees the video game and thinks, "Hmmm, 3 hours without mom telling me to do this or that." Admittedly, being a member of one of the largest churches in the nation, they are geared with ministries for all age groups, with enthusiastic leaders to keep up the interest. The misconception is that learning about religion or the Bible, is like getting times tables pounded into your head, or being told to eat your vegetables because they are good for you. Many of today's parents believe that a child having free rein over the choices they make, is good parenting. The OP is trying to separate religion from all of the other aspects in life, as if it should totally be the child's choice, regardless of age, whether they go to church or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyingJ 0 #22 June 7, 2008 I feel that kids at some point should be able to make a choice. I think they need to be able to make an educated choice though, which is tough to do with no personal exposure. I don't believe there is a clear cut path for every kid though, it's going to depend on maturity, etc. My parents grew up in different churches and didn't like attending any but their own. As kids we spent time in both and as I (the oldest) started asking questions and sharing opinions they felt I was at a point I could make the decision for myself whether or not to participate and I distanced myself from any religion. My brother (2 years younger) reached the same point and his decision was to make religion a much more significant part of his life. Now as an adult religion has become a HUGE part of his life. My younger two siblings didn't have quite the same opportunity as we as a family were no longer going to church regularly. They were pretty much handed the position of religion being a very informal part of their life and in time they too made their own decisions. I felt bad they didn't get the same opportunity for a well rounded foundation before making a choice, though as they have gotten older (both mid-20s now) they have fallen into varying levels of interest in religion. I am not a parent, but I'd like to think that most parents would like to see their kids grow up as free thinkers who make decisions based on past experience and future expectations. Parents should feel responsible for helping their kids to get the foundation they need to be able to make decisions for themselves when the time is appropriate.Killing threads since 2004. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #23 June 8, 2008 Quote I'm not saying they shouldn't be exposd to the church, but the fact is that she believes so much that she is right, and I'm going to hell. I wouldn't even say they _should_ be exposed to the church. They might, but definitely shouldn't. Show her some recent pedophilia cases among Fathers. Note that none of them was ever suspected before the things went discovered. Is she sure it's not the case in her church as well? Quote I jsut cant understand why she thinks so whole heartedly that if someone doesn't belive in Jesus, they are going to hell. Because someone brought her to the church when she was young. Quote What about the undescovered tribe in Wireityeenska? If they haven't been discovered by a missionary, are they going to hell even though they've never heard of him? I'd even say that if Jesus was so powerful, nobody would ever need anyone to hear about him. We'd all born knowing about Jesus.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sandi 0 #24 June 8, 2008 I completely agree with you that children shouldn't be given free reign to make their own decisions. I also agree that, unfortunately, many parents do. A decision regarding attending church is up to the adults. My point is that parents pass on their beliefs and values to their children. Parents may choose to take their kids to church, temple, or wherever, every week or twice a year or not at all. That is not related to good or bad parenting. To the OP, the decision about whether to take your children to church is something that should be decided and agreed upon by the parents. There isn't a right or wrong answer, decide what you both can support and do what works for your family. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #25 June 8, 2008 Quote I dont believe that learning about Jesus is ever a bad thing, no matter where the setting, but it is never good to use oppression. I have never seen any church or religion which would encourage actual learning about Jesus. They only encourage remembering and frequently repeating their own teaching about Jesus, in most cases not even mentioning there are 100+ other teachings about Jesus, none of which could be proven to be true.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
