Should Europe and the rest of the world disarm the USA

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Or that Canada, would decide to oppose us, they might be liberal, but not completely daft.

That's probably true. However, don't forget that when California fell behind on their electricity payments a couple of years ago we turned it off.

[diablopilot 2]

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Well, I think its time we disarmed the Americans and turned their guns into ploughshears for the third world countries. What do you as a responsible member of the world think. If they can't play nicely then we need to make sure they do!

Anytime you're feeling froggy, jump on over......

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[SkyDekker 1,141]

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And as for things not being the same as WWII, not a great student of history are you?

A great student of History would realize that even the Roman Empire fell.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Oh and the world was a far happier place after that.

Say hello to famine, warlords, and plague.

Oh yeah, the good old days huh?

[warpedskydiver 0]

All those in favor or wishing for the fall of the "American Empire" be careful of what you wish for, you just might get it.

[Frenchy68 0]

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Yup, that we've had to bail the euros out in two shooting wars and one non-shooting one with the Warsaw Pact. How soon they forget. Let's also not forget that great idea from the sons of Nippon for gaining extra resources at the expense of China and Russia.

Students, please take notes: how to lose a battle before fighting it.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[martin-o 0]

Famine was caused by the Roman empire and it's love of using slaves. Population declined during the later centuries of the Roman empire. After the last emperor population declined for a little more time but stabilized fairly fast.

And claiming that the plauge was caused by the fall of the roman empire is just stupid.

[warpedskydiver 0]

337-40 CONTANTINE II, CONSTANTIUS & CONSTANS (sons of Constantine I)
340 Constans defeats Constantine II and takes over the West (including Britain) as well as his own territories of Italy, Africa and Illyricum
340-50 Constans energetic in defending the Rhine and British frontiers
350 Constans killed by a British-born barbarian officer, Magnentius, who is proclaimed Augustus in all Constans' territories except Illyricum
353 Magnentius committs suicide after losing Africa, Italy and Spain to Constantius
355 Julian (cousin to the emperor) made caesar and sent to Gaul
357-60 Julian given military command and successfully repels Alamanni, conducts successful campaigns in enemy territory and restores Rhine defenses
359 Sapor II of Persia defeats Asiatic barbarians/nomads on northern border
360-63 JULIAN Julian's pagan revival particularly popular in Britain Raid in Britain causes Julian to dispatch 4 regiments
363 Julian dies in disasterous Persian campaign
364 VALENTINIAN AND VALENS Raid in Britain
365-75 Valentinian in Gaul to deal with constant barbarian pressure on the frontiers. Defeats Alamanni, Franks and Saxons
367 Comes Theodosius (father of Theodosius the Great) repels Picts, Scots and other invaders from Britain with 4 regiments
367 GRATIAN (West)
373 Huns destroy Ostrogothic kdm in the Ukraine, then attack Visigoths on Dneister. Germans fled to the Danube and sought entry to Moesia or Thrace
375 Valentinian dies. Comes Theodosius executed
375 VALENTINIAN II (West)
377 Ill treatment of Goths by Roman officials leads to war
378 Battle of Adrianople - Emperor Valens killed
379 THEODOSIUS THE GREAT (East)
382 Theodosius signs foedus with Goths, who are quartered in the Balkans
383-408 ARCADIUS (East)
383 British general Magnus Maximus proclaimed Augustus by troops, crosses to Gaul and kills Gratian. Maximus accepted by Britain, Gaul and Spain, recognised by Theodosius
387 Maximus appoints son Victor caesar and takes Italy from Valentinian II
388 Theodosius defeats Maximus and Arbogast, barbarian general of Theodosius', recovers Gaul and executes Victor. Valentinian II sent to Gaul with Arbogast
392 Arbogast murders Valentinian II and revolts, makes Eugenius Augustus
393 Eugenius occupies Italy with senatorial support, recognised in Spain and Africa
393-423 HONORIUS (West)
394 Theodosius and Stilicho defeat Arbogast and Eugenius at the river Frigidus
395 Theodosius dies Empire divided into East (Diocese of Dacia, Thrace, Macedonia, Asia, Pontus, The Orient and Egypt) under Arcadius and West (Rome, Italy, Pannonia, Africa, Spain, Seven Provinces, Gaul, Britain) under Honorius. Alaric and Visigoths revolt
396 Stilicho defeats Alaric in Greece
c.397 Saxon raid repulsed by Stilicho
403 Stilicho takes troops from Britain to defend Italy from Alaric
406 Rhine frontier over-run, 31st December
407 CONSTANTINE III (the usurper), proclaimed by British garrison, crosses to Gaul (taking many troops with him) and drives barbarians south
410 Alaric sacks Rome. Britons appeal to Honorius for aid against barbarians and told to look to their own defence. After this British tried to govern themselves after the Imperial pattern
411/2 British victories over barbrians
423-455 VALENTINNIAN III (West)
c425-59 VORTIGERN ruler in Britain
c428 Saxon mercanaries recruited to garrison Britain against barbarians
433-54 Aetius, general of Valentinian III, efective ruler of Western Empire
429 Bishop Germanus of Auxerre visits Britain to fight Pelagian heresy and leads campaign against Irish, Picts and Saxons in Wales
c441/2 Saxon mercenaries in Britain revolt
446 Aetius consul [British appeal to Aetius for help against Saxons]
c.458 massacre of the British councillors by Saxons
c.459 British migration to Gaul [12,000 fighting men plus dependents]
460-75 AMBROSIUS AURELIANUS leads British resistance
475-515 ARTHUR continues British resistance campaign against Saxon invaders
495 battle of mons badonicus (Mt Badon). Partition of Britain between British and Saxons
515 battle of Camlann [crooked vale]: death of Arthur, and Medraut [Mordred]


Sounds like great times huh?

[warpedskydiver 0]

Dark ages lasted from 476 to 1000 AD.

Sounds pretty stable eh?

Famine was caused by the Roman Empire?

Oh and you think the plauges and famine that reduced human population by a third were the result of the Roman empire?

How about human civilization, road building, waste eradication, and proper water resource management coming to a screeching halt?

Does that seem more like the truth?

[JohnRich 4]

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Well, I think its time we disarmed the Americans...

Come and Take it

That's the flag run up the pole by a band of Texans when Santa Anna tried to confiscate their municipal cannon, in his quest to run Americans off their land. Santa Anna was subsequently defeated in battle, and the entire American southwest now belongs to us.

Go ahead and try - we could make England our 51st state.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Sounds like the decendants of those who chose to appease Hitler are alive and well, they skydive, and now post here on DZ.com

Maybe they think somehow they were magically saved by wishing things were different.

[kelpdiver 2]

Nice to see everyone's imaginations are still fully developed.

But in short, keep dreaming. You'll disarm America around the time pigs grow useful wings. In this current state, you haven't a chance. The interdependence is too great - why would you chop off your leg to achieve this goal?

The Roman Empire fell because it was overextended. See England, 20th Century. But the US never had colonies across the globe and it's already retired quite a few of its far flung naval bases as sea power is no longer so important and aircraft range is easy to extend with in air refueling. An isolationist America needs only to defend itself and the two oceans will prevent Europe and Asia from doing much.

Also, the first retaliatory blow will be to shut down the root nameservers, thus fullfilling the fear that the US ownership of ICAAN is dangerous. The world wide web will become the US Internet again until the replacement can be determine, built, and with every machine configured to use it.

We'll also block off the UN, holding all delegates hostage. Fun stuff. And with the world supercop no longer interested, the world coalition against the Americans will collapse almost immediately into sectional conflicts. There's a good chance this would end badly for the world in terms of nuclear weapons use, but anything short of that and the three north american countries will be living pretty well, with their weapons.

[kelpdiver 2]

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“In some respects, the goal of a world free of nuclear weapons is like the top of a very tall mountain. From the vantage point of our troubled world today, we can't even see the top of the mountain, and it is tempting and easy to say we can't get there from here.

I don't want to climb that mountain. A world "free" of nuclear weapons is far more dangerous, far less stable than one where everyone has a small but credible deterrent arsenal. For the US, I think that's in the order of about 500 warheads, divided between 4 subs, 2 aircraft wings, and perhaps 3 land based missile sites. That's sufficient to prevent a first strike attack from succeeding, but small enough to minimize the risks and expense of having them.

Because for many countries, having nuclear weapons requires only the wish to do so and a few months effort, the obvious result of a nuke free world is everyone races to be the first to cheat and be the only nuclear power again, recalling the advantage seen by the US for a brief time in the 40s.

The body count of the world and superpower wars in the 100 years before the nuclear bomb is staggering. No direct conflict between nuclear powers has occurred since 1945, and the deaths from the proxy fights barely sum up to the toll that would be exacted by a single targeted nuke.

As Ray Gun Reagan said, 'peace through strength.'

[martin-o 0]

Dark ages is a term that no historian would use. I was referring to the population decline when I wrote "stable". The Roman empire didn't stop over night in 476, it declined contiusly long before that and continued to influence life long after that. East Rome survived until the 1400. The factor that most historian atribute to the fall of the Roman Empire was theire dependens on growing population as a result of aggressive warefare. When Rome could no longer grow in size they found it harder and harder to get a hold of slaves. Other factors that probably affected the decline in population was climate and disseases (some belive that smallpox killed large amount of Romans). At the peak of the Empire the city of Rome had an est. pop. of more than 1 million people. At the death of the last emperor their was probably less then one tenth of that.

There was no screeching halt! the Decline begun as early as maybee 200 AD, and Roman influence kept going until at least 1400. 1200 years is not a screeching halt!

[lawrocket 3]

Well, let's examine who would do the taking:

Rest of the World
1) Antarcticans - nope. No real natives to fight the battle.

2) Australians/New Zealanders/Micronesia/Polynesia - Well, the Kiwis and Ozzies have taken over our dropzones and are content. And as far as the other countries, they'd have to take Kwajalein first, and we'll duke it out with them pretty easily.

3) Sub-Saharan Africa - subsaharans aren't much of a worry. You'd have to load up armies and deploy them by sea. They pretty much don't like the idea of getting on ships to come to the New World - their ancestral history of such things works against them.

4) Saharan Africa/Middle East - well, they have their hands full trying to get rid of Westerners trying to take THEIR weapons, so we won't have this to worryt about until a few years after we pull out. Then they'll be busy trying to rearm themselves, disarm each other and kill Christianity. Let's nix that one.

5) Asia and Indonesia? They are doing a fine job invading the US with their products. Heck, they are manufacturing gun parts. They wouldn't want to destroy a market.

6) South America - That's the great unknown. They really don't have a whole lot of quarrel with the US. And they are busy clearcutting jungles.

7) Central America/Mexico - these would be a good choice. They are experienced with getting entry to the US. However, anecdotal evidence suggests that they like guns as much, if not more, than Americans. And the last time they tried to take American guns, Santa Ana was defeated, and lived in exile in New York City, where he introduced chewing gun to the United States (true fucking story, folks).

So now we are left with Europe.

The only country with the balls to even think about disarming the US was the USSR - and oops - IT AIN'T THERE! So, the bad-ass of Europe is gone.

Now, we can look to Eastern Europe. No, they lack the forces to actually come to the US and take our weapons. Furthermore, they like guns, too, and use them rather frequently on each other. A Serbian General was on a game/show once. For the final question, he was asked, "For the final question and the wins, the correct course of action against demonstrators is what?" His answer, "I don't know. I'll take a shot at it." And he was correct, and won the jackpot.

So we are left with Western Europe. No, to take our guns they have to have guns themselves. Send a bunch of English Bobbies over to take our guns by way of haughty accent and batons? Ha ha.

The Swiss, though - they are armed to the teeth and know how to use them. But, they like to stay neutral, so we have no worries there, either.

I guess I just can't see who is going to make us play ball...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[normiss 622]

Nicely played, sir!

[JohnRich 4]

That was a great piece of creative writing, and I enjoyed it. Thanks!

[martin-o 0]

I don't think you need to be quite so elaborate, to figure out that the scenario suggested by the OP will never happen.

[martin-o 0]

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337-40 CONTANTINE II, CONSTANTIUS & CONSTANS (sons of Constantine I)
340 Constans defeats Constantine II and takes over the West (including Britain) as well as his own territories of Italy, Africa and Illyricum
340-50 Constans energetic in defending the Rhine and British frontiers
350 Constans killed by a British-born barbarian officer, Magnentius, who is proclaimed Augustus in all Constans' territories except Illyricum
353 Magnentius committs suicide after losing Africa, Italy and Spain to Constantius
355 Julian (cousin to the emperor) made caesar and sent to Gaul
357-60 Julian given military command and successfully repels Alamanni, conducts successful campaigns in enemy territory and restores Rhine defenses
359 Sapor II of Persia defeats Asiatic barbarians/nomads on northern border
360-63 JULIAN Julian's pagan revival particularly popular in Britain Raid in Britain causes Julian to dispatch 4 regiments
363 Julian dies in disasterous Persian campaign
364 VALENTINIAN AND VALENS Raid in Britain
365-75 Valentinian in Gaul to deal with constant barbarian pressure on the frontiers. Defeats Alamanni, Franks and Saxons
367 Comes Theodosius (father of Theodosius the Great) repels Picts, Scots and other invaders from Britain with 4 regiments
367 GRATIAN (West)
373 Huns destroy Ostrogothic kdm in the Ukraine, then attack Visigoths on Dneister. Germans fled to the Danube and sought entry to Moesia or Thrace
375 Valentinian dies. Comes Theodosius executed
375 VALENTINIAN II (West)
377 Ill treatment of Goths by Roman officials leads to war
378 Battle of Adrianople - Emperor Valens killed
379 THEODOSIUS THE GREAT (East)
382 Theodosius signs foedus with Goths, who are quartered in the Balkans
383-408 ARCADIUS (East)
383 British general Magnus Maximus proclaimed Augustus by troops, crosses to Gaul and kills Gratian. Maximus accepted by Britain, Gaul and Spain, recognised by Theodosius
387 Maximus appoints son Victor caesar and takes Italy from Valentinian II
388 Theodosius defeats Maximus and Arbogast, barbarian general of Theodosius', recovers Gaul and executes Victor. Valentinian II sent to Gaul with Arbogast
392 Arbogast murders Valentinian II and revolts, makes Eugenius Augustus
393 Eugenius occupies Italy with senatorial support, recognised in Spain and Africa
393-423 HONORIUS (West)
394 Theodosius and Stilicho defeat Arbogast and Eugenius at the river Frigidus
395 Theodosius dies Empire divided into East (Diocese of Dacia, Thrace, Macedonia, Asia, Pontus, The Orient and Egypt) under Arcadius and West (Rome, Italy, Pannonia, Africa, Spain, Seven Provinces, Gaul, Britain) under Honorius. Alaric and Visigoths revolt
396 Stilicho defeats Alaric in Greece
c.397 Saxon raid repulsed by Stilicho
403 Stilicho takes troops from Britain to defend Italy from Alaric
406 Rhine frontier over-run, 31st December
407 CONSTANTINE III (the usurper), proclaimed by British garrison, crosses to Gaul (taking many troops with him) and drives barbarians south
410 Alaric sacks Rome. Britons appeal to Honorius for aid against barbarians and told to look to their own defence. After this British tried to govern themselves after the Imperial pattern
411/2 British victories over barbrians
423-455 VALENTINNIAN III (West)
c425-59 VORTIGERN ruler in Britain
c428 Saxon mercanaries recruited to garrison Britain against barbarians
433-54 Aetius, general of Valentinian III, efective ruler of Western Empire
429 Bishop Germanus of Auxerre visits Britain to fight Pelagian heresy and leads campaign against Irish, Picts and Saxons in Wales
c441/2 Saxon mercenaries in Britain revolt
446 Aetius consul [British appeal to Aetius for help against Saxons]
c.458 massacre of the British councillors by Saxons
c.459 British migration to Gaul [12,000 fighting men plus dependents]
460-75 AMBROSIUS AURELIANUS leads British resistance
475-515 ARTHUR continues British resistance campaign against Saxon invaders
495 battle of mons badonicus (Mt Badon). Partition of Britain between British and Saxons
515 battle of Camlann [crooked vale]: death of Arthur, and Medraut [Mordred]

Are you even remotely able to put this piece of cut-and-paste into context. I don't want to hijack this thread, but history is not about dates and battles. Trust me on this one.

[rhys 0]

But, you can't go in and order another country to do something they don't want to and kill their civilians, take their leader prisoner.....

.... just because you don't agree with the way they live.

can you?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[kelpdiver 2]

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But, you can't go in and order another country to do something they don't want to and kill their civilians, take their leader prisoner.....

.... just because you don't agree with the way they live.

can you?

Not without a few hundred million guns.

[jm951 0]

Hmmm, Nazi Germany didn't like that too much either, but we didn't get to Hitler in time to take him prisoner. Guess those folks who voted Ja on the anschluss were happy with the course of history in the next few years as well.

[kelpdiver 2]

If Hitler had stuck to his agreement with Russia to split Poland, he could have lasted quite a long time. It's much easier to defend and hold than to expand, esp in 3 directions.

[rickjump1 0]

Skyrad, sometimes you get what you ask for.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[squarecanopy 0]

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You guys really love to live in the past don't you. Can't really compare the British army of today with that of the 18th century

Anyway, enough of that sillyness. Here's how it works.
1) We the rest of the world orders your President to revoke the bit about the right to bear arms in that paper thingy of yours, just this act alone may be enough seeing as your President has already shown utter contempt for said thingy.

2) Should some unreasonable types object and refuse then We the rest of the world will inact an ecconomic boycott of all US products and services, diverting our spending power towards India, China and the far east markets. Seeing as your funny money is sliding down the crapper faster than last nights vindaloo this will help make up the minds of the few who resist the inevitable.

3) Should stupidity prevaile in this matter and large groups still refuse to hand over their firearms for destruction We the rest of the world will invoke and enforce economic sanctions on your already frail and dodery economy. Including the use of the Euro in all oil deals in place of the USD.

4) Resistance is futile, in the unlikely event that you have by now not caved into the laws (Yes We of course respect international law outside of your borders and will raise a suitable ammendment to enforce such actions) We the rest of the world will call in the loans owed to us by you the American people. In addition we will dump onto the market all reserves held in USD's.

Good plan eh? And of course done in compliance with international law and without resorting to the use of millitary force..... Oh and while we're at it we'll reduce you Nukes as well.
Cheers!

Skyrad you really ought to get a life instead of sitting around dreaming up silly horseshit like this.
Sounds to me like what you are really pissed off about is that you bozos are sitting around in your crime ridden country, jealous of the fact that you can't even defend yourselves from the armed criminals in your midst, while your snooty damn culture is collapsing under the burden of socialized government and the eminent takeover of your country by the european muslim community.
As far as your supposed economic might, remember that the whole of the British Isle would not make up a corner of Texas, with a similarly small population, so beat your puny impotent chest all you want. There is your opinion and then there is REALITY...

Just burning a hole in the sky.....