Another US Shooting - This time a shopping Mall

[funkcanna 0]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7129906.stm

Gunman goes on rampage at US mall

The gunman used a balcony to aim at victims, reports say


Eyewitness account
A gunman has opened fire in a shopping centre in the US state of Nebraska, killing eight people before fatally shooting himself, police say.
A further five people were wounded - two critically - in the shooting at the Westroads Mall in Omaha.

Police have identified the gunman as Robert Hawkins, 19, from Bellevue, close to Omaha. They said a suicide note had been recovered.

Hawkins struck as the centre was crowded with Christmas shoppers.

Witnesses spoke of shoppers screaming and scrambling to find safe shelter as the gunman struck.

He just stood there with his arm like this, his hand straight up in the air, shooting. And then I turned and ran

Witness


In pictures: Omaha shootings

In a statement, President George W Bush - who visited Omaha earlier in the day for a fundraiser - said he was "deeply saddened" by the shootings.

The incident is the latest in a series of mass shootings in the US, which have reignited the debate in the US about gun ownership.

The Supreme Court will consider Americans' right to bear arms early next year for the first time in nearly 70 years.

Hiding

The shooting in Omaha took place inside the upmarket Von Maur department store at the Westroads Mall.

Police were called at about 1400 local time (2000 GMT), after receiving a call from inside, said Sgt Teresa Negron.

MASS SHOOTINGS IN 2007
Oct 2007: Asa H Coon, 14, shoots four people, injuring them, at his school in Cleveland, Ohio, before killing himself.
April 2007: Cho Seung-hui , 23, shoots 32 people dead on campus of Virginia Tech university, Virginia, then kills himself.
Feb 2007: Sulejman Talovic, 18, shoots dead five people and injures four at a mall in Salt Lake City, Utah, before being killed by police.

By the time police arrived at the scene six minutes later, the shooting was over, she said.

Jeff Schaffart was shot in the arm as he spent his lunch break shopping with his wife, Reuters news agency reported. He said he hid in a Von Maur women's bathroom, using his tie as a tourniquet to slow the bleeding.

"I was obviously very fortunate. Not a lot of people were so fortunate today," said Mr Schaffart.

Another woman described seeing the gunman on the attack.

"I went around and then I saw the guy in the children's department," she said.

"Big tall guy, real tall and he just stood there with his arm like this, his hand straight up in the air, shooting. And then I turned and ran."


Witnesses spoke of trying to hide as they waited for police

In an e-mail to the BBC, one Omaha resident, called Julie, said that she had been in a restaurant next door to Von Maur department store when the shooting began.

"Someone came in to the restaurant and advised that someone was shooting in the mall and to get out. Everyone started to run out of the small doors in Panera [the restaurant], so we were able to get out very quickly.

"I heard screaming and loud shots being fired somewhere close by. I got out of the mall before the local police department arrived."

Note

Sgt Negron told a news conference she could confirm nine deaths, including the gunman. She said five people had been injured, two in critical condition.

"We do not believe that we have any other shooter," she told reporters.



"The person we believe to be the shooter has died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound."

The gunman, Robert Hawkins, is said to have suffered from depression in the past, and recently lost his job at a fast-food restaurant.

Police confirmed Hawkins left a suicide note. Media reports suggest in the note he said he wanted to be famous.

Mr Bush was in Omaha earlier, but left the city before the shooting occurred.

"Having just visited with so many members of the community in Omaha today, the president is confident that they will pull together to comfort one another as they deal with this terrible tragedy," the White House said in a statement.

To know requires proof
To believe requires evidence
To have faith requires neither.
If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again

[shropshire 0]

>

It's a big city, if he wasn't actually at the shopping centre, how is the fact that he visited somewhere in the city even relevant? Fucking Reporters

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[vpozzoli 0]

Clearly, if department store clerks were issued CCWs (and got proper training on gun use, of course) such things would never happen! Making shopping malls gun free zones only managed to disarm law abiding citizens while giving nutters free run of the place!
Oops, sorry, wrong context, I thought you were talking about schools.



Vale

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

>

It's a big city, if he wasn't actually at the shopping centre, how is the fact that he visited somewhere in the city even relevant? Fucking Reporters

You're being too harsh on this reporter in particular, who was just doing his job, and reporters collectively; who as a general rule, get bashed more often than they deserve.

Journalism 101: Hard-news articles stories are written in an inverse pyramid, where the lead paragraph, usually in a single sentence, conveys the most key elements of the story, with each following para containing successively less important/relevant detail; so that if need be, the lead can stand alone. That also allows (a) the article to be edited by trimming from the bottom-up, and/or (b) the reader to read less than the entire article, without losing the essence of the article.

Generally, with hard news, reporters simply report. They signal the relative relevance of each detail by where they place it in the article. That's their job. The editors then act as the final filter by deciding how much of the article gets printed. That's their job.

Also, when editors do the final revision, they don't always trim; sometimes they add a few facts to the reporter's story, for reasons of context, completeness, clarity, whatever.

The sentence about which you complain is the last one in the article. It may have been written by the reporter, or it may have been added by the editor. Whichever occurred, its minimal relevance was signaled by it being placed last in the story.

This shooting is a major news event. And generally, to a U.S. audience, a President's whereabouts are, by definition, always "news". So, if the President happens to be anywhere near the location of a major news event on the day it occurs, especially outside of Washington, DC, that very convergence of facts is, by definition, news - if for no other reason than to inform readers whether the two "news events" (1. shooting in Omaha yesterday 2. President in Omaha yesterday) are, or are not, related to or affected by each other.

Thus, the fact that Bush was in Omaha the day of the shooting, but left before it occurred, is news, and does has relevance to the story - but its relevance to the story is minimal, which is why it's in the last sentence of the article. The reporter and editor were just doing their jobs.

BTW, this post was written in an inverse pyramid.

[BillyVance 34]

I don't think the shooting had anything to do with Bush being in town. Some stupid ass 19 year old kid got fired from his job at McDonald's, and decided he was going to go out in a blaze of glory. Fucking selfish prick. If things are going that bad for you, just off yourself! Don't ruin the lives of other families by taking others with you. I hope they bury that son of a bitch in an unmarked grave because if they find out where, acts of unspeakable depravity could be visited upon his rotting carcass.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[SkyDekker 1,127]

Being in the mall business, this is one of my greatest fears. It is something that is impossible to prevent and can only be mitigated when it does occur.

My thoughts go out to the families affected.....

[quade 3]

Quote

You're being too harsh on this reporter in particular, who was just doing his job, and reporters collectively; who as a general rule, get bashed more often than they deserve.

I've tried to explain that to some people on this web site for years; good luck with that.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[champu 1]

Quote

The incident is the latest in a series of mass shootings in the US, which have reignited the debate in the US about gun ownership...

Oct 2007: Asa H Coon, 14, shoots four people, injuring them, at his school in Cleveland, Ohio, before killing himself.
April 2007: Cho Seung-hui , 23, shoots 32 people dead on campus of Virginia Tech university, Virginia, then kills himself.
Feb 2007: Sulejman Talovic, 18, shoots dead five people and injures four at a mall in Salt Lake City, Utah, before being killed by police...

The gunman, Robert Hawkins, is said to have suffered from depression in the past, and recently lost his job at a fast-food restaurant.

It would seem there is a pool of people with poor mental health out there capable of doing this kind of thing on their way out. I'm not sure proceeding directly to a gun control debate (neither passing go, nor collecting 200 dollars) is the best course of action.

[Zipp0 1]

This Faux News article says he used an AK-47:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315441,00.html

Then 2 paragraphs later says he used an SKS. Who edits this shit anyway??

Note to depressed teenage fuckwads bent on destruction or murder/suicide. Kill yourself, NOW.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Quote

It would seem there is a pool of people with poor mental health out there capable of doing this kind of thing on their way out. I'm not sure proceeding directly to a gun control debate (neither passing go, nor collecting 200 dollars) is the best course of action.

This should NOT be a "gun control" debate as yes the issue of this pool of people with mental health issues you speak of, is the root cause of this incident. However, having easy access to guns makes carrying out such crimes easier for those with these mental health issues.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Gravitymaster 0]

Since this guy and most others who have gone on a murder/suicide rampage do it b/c of the fame and glory and a desire to be remembered, I wonder if publishing their names has any effect on the frequency of this type of shooting?

Perhaps this is something news orgs. should consider?

[SpeedRacer 1]

Interesting thought.

Yeah, the TV news agencies are posting his picture & his name & going on & on about this every ten minutes or so.

of course they should report the news, but maybe these losers are seeking that kind of fame.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

This Faux News article says he used an AK-47... Then 2 paragraphs later says he used an SKS. Who edits this shit anyway??

Everything is an AK47 to the news reporters. It strikes fear into the hearts of their readers, and sells newspapers.

This guy was just another suicidal asshole who was already forbidden by law to own guns due to a previous felony conviction, but got one anyway by stealing it. No gun law will stop such a person.

Nebraska's concealed handgun law has been in effect for only two years. I wonder if the mall was a posted "no guns" zone?

I sent an e-mail to the mall security office asking about this, but I suppose they've got better things to be doing right now.

[BillyVance 34]

Quote

Interesting thought.

Yeah, the TV news agencies are posting his picture & his name & going on & on about this every ten minutes or so.

of course they should report the news, but maybe these losers are seeking that kind of fame.

Pretty twisted frame of mind if you ask me. They go out in a blaze of glory, in their minds, but all it does is destroy their own family, as well as others they hurt or killed.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[billvon 2,402]

>Pretty twisted frame of mind if you ask me.

Uh, yeah. Mass murderers who kill themselves are, by definition, pretty twisted.

[chuteless 1]

American society is turning on itself.....a mentality of guns and killing anyone, anywhere, anytime.

Its amazing to hear the call for everyone to carry a gun....figuring that then someone could stop a gunman. Only problem is....when you look around and seea guy with a gun ( looking for the killer) someone will make you a target.

What an insane nation.

[shropshire 0]

<>

Tenuous at best and hopefully only true in tabloid newspapers.

Does he get mentioned in every story about shootings that occurs in Washington?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[SpeedRacer 1]

you cannot judge any society by its lunatics.

they are by definition, outside of society.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[pop 0]

Quote

>

It's a big city, if he wasn't actually at the shopping centre, how is the fact that he visited somewhere in the city even relevant? Fucking Reporters

I was just thinking the same thing.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[pop 0]

Quote

American society is turning on itself.....a mentality of guns and killing anyone, anywhere, anytime.

Its amazing to hear the call for everyone to carry a gun....figuring that then someone could stop a gunman. Only problem is....when you look around and seea guy with a gun ( looking for the killer) someone will make you a target.

What an insane nation.

I am with you on that, and couldnt agree more. In another post i mentioend that we are a society gunk ho about guns, and also have one of the highest murder rates in world....because we are gunk ho about guns.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[Flacid_Monk 0]

Quote

>

It's a big city, if he wasn't actually at the shopping centre, how is the fact that he visited somewhere in the city even relevant? Fucking Reporters

Once you've gone over a certain percentage of the population having guns, you've then got to go the whole hog and arm everybody to enable everybody to protect themselves against atack from the percentage already armed.....so, you're right actually, LOL

[chuteless 1]

"you cannot judge any society by its lunatics "

"They are by definition, outside of society"

________________________________________________

That is nothing but a cop out...a weak notion that society isn't to blame for the mass killings in the USA. The society has long had a mentaility of giving everyone a gun, shoot anyone you feel may upset you, a paranoid attitude, and nothing more.

There is no respect for law and order, and there is a backlash with some police forces and their inconsiderate use of both tasers and pistols in doing their job.

The "right" to bear arms, should be restricted to your right arm and your left arm.

Television programs, movies, videos, DVDs ad infinitum have made the USA a leader in pornography and brutality and a wide range of violence being acceptable for kids right up to grandparents.


edited for a spelling mistake

[Flacid_Monk 0]

Quote

"you cannot judge any society by its lunatics "

"They are by definition, outside of society"

________________________________________________

That is nothing but a cop out...a weak notion that society isn't to blame for the mass killings in the USA. The society has long had a mentaility of giving everyone a gun, shoot anyone you feel may upset you, a paranoid attitude, and nothing more.

There is no respect for law and order, and there is a backlash with some police forces and their inconsiderate use of both tasers and pistols in doing their job.

The "right" to bear arms, should be restricted to your right arm and your left arm.

Television programs, movies, videos, DVDs ad infinitum have made the USA a leader in pornography and brutality and a wide range of violence being acceptable for kids right up to grandparents.


edited for a spelling mistake

chuteless speaks much sense

[pop 0]

Quote

That is nothing but a cop out...a weak notion that society isn't to blame for the mass killings in the USA. The society has long had a mentaility of giving everyone a gun, shoot anyone you feel may upset you, a paranoid attitude, and nothing more.

You are right on the money Bill. We are a society that thinks guns are a good idea, when in reality they are not. Guns are treated like another household item here. No wonder people are so eager to use them.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[davedlg 0]

Quote

Interesting thought.

Yeah, the TV news agencies are posting his picture & his name & going on & on about this every ten minutes or so.

of course they should report the news, but maybe these losers are seeking that kind of fame.

I've thought that for a long time. Obviouslly the news stations have to report it, but I think it's time for them to self impose a blackout on information about the shooter themselves.

With our current 'myspace society', eveyone is after attention and fame, and I really believe that these shootings are a form of that, and I think that the media organizations encourage these kinds of events by prying into every detail of what the shooters left behind.

Look this most recent incident - he said "I just want to go out with a bang...I guess now I'll be famous" The Virginia tech shooter went so far as to send his material directly to NBC. The coumbine shooters left behind all kinds of video and writings. Even the Unibomber was after some attention for him and his manifesto. I would venture to guess that most of these kinds of random shooting events are fueled by the media storm that follows.

The media should report what happened. They should not report the shooters name, background, motives, pictures, writings, etc. This just further 'glorifies' this kind behaviour to others in the same position. I am not saying that the gorvernment should have no say in this...government censorship of the media is a very very slippery slope. A self imposed blackout by all the major media outlets is what is needed. Reporting this kind of information should be considered harmful and discouraged, not a good scoop or exclusive information.