Cocaine, X, meth...what is the allure?

[Squeak 17]

you are choosing to use some VERY narrow definitions of both Faith and addict.
Most of the Gen pop would probably use a more broad definition



Clean for me is: I dont do illicit drugs, I dont drink alcohol, I dont smoke tobacco (or anything else) I vary RARELY take prescribed medication, I will always opt for a non medicinal apreach where possible.
I do drink coffe and contrary to a previous post not in any large quantity, (ie 1 to 2 cup per day)
that's clean to me

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[pirana 0]

Quote

Since I don't know anything about these popular recreational drugs, I am curious what is the allure to them? I have watched people wreck their lives due to them but never understood the addiction.

They make a lot of user's feel good, short term.

Their effect - short term perceived benefit, long term destructive powers, and the inability of the user to distinguish the transition or the difference between the two - is the very definition of addiction.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

That's awesome. You must be of a strong character to have such discipline and determination to stay clean. Must also feel good to regain control over your life.

_________________________________________

[ryoder 1,387]

Quote

Clean for me is: I dont do illicit drugs, I dont drink alcohol, I dont smoke tobacco (or anything else) I vary RARELY take prescribed medication, I will always opt for a non medicinal apreach where possible.
I do drink coffe and contrary to a previous post not in any large quantity, (ie 1 to 2 cup per day)
that's clean to me

Well I certainly hope you compensate for all that with lots of really kinky sex!

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[nathaniel 0]

Quote

do you believe people of faith are, in some way, addicts?

Food addicts, lots of em in American religious circles. Obesity is the result. There's even some academic research on the subject:

http://psychcentral.com/news/2006/08/25/religion-linked-to-obesity/

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[windcatcher 0]

Unforunately, I have to agree with you on that. Gluttony seems to be acceptable in a lot of religious circles.

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[freethefly 6]

And now for the musical portion of this discussion...

CHAMPAGN DON'T HURT ME BABY
By the GREAT JERRY JEFF WALKER

Champagne don't hurt me baby
Cocaine don't drive me crazy
Ain't nobody's business but mine..
Way down in Costa Rica
Smoke my hash and drink my liquor
Ain't nobody's business but mine

Got the good life down in Belize
They let folks do just as they please
Ain't nobody business but mine
Got a hammock strung between two trees
Got a jug of Dom and a big ol' spleef
And it ain't nobody's business but mine

Champagne don't hurt me baby
Cocaine don't drive me crazy
Ain't nobody's business but mine
Way down in Costa Rica
Smoke my hash and drink my liquor
Ain't nobody's business but mine

It ain't nobody 's business kid
Who in the world I do business with
Ain't nobody's business but mine
Ain't nobody's business sonny
Where in the world I spend my money
Ain't nobody's business but mine

Champagne don't drive me crazy
Cocaine don't make me lazy
Ain't nobody's business but mine
Said, way down in Costa Rica
Smoke my hash and drink my liquor
Ain't nobody's business but mine

You drink your whisky
Drink your wine
Those narco boys will treat you fine
It ain't nobody's business but mine
Smoke that pot
Or smoke that hash
They'll find out where the good stuff's stashed
And it ain't nobody's business but mine

Champagne don't hurt me baby
Cocaine don't make me crazy
Ain't nobody's business but mine
Yeah, way down in Costa Rica
Smoke my hash and drink my liquor
Ain't nobody's business but mine

Ain't nobody's business but mine........

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[dorbie 0]

Quote

edited to add: skydiving did bad things to my credit, even hurt a couple of relationships. It was all I thougth about for a time. I didn't deal with those things that bothered me because, hey, I wouldn't worry about those in a couple of days when the adrenaline is pumping.

All in 18 jumps?

[JoeyRamone 0]

Quote

yea, Its not the dabblers that I was referring to either.


I know a bunch of those fuking loser wastes of life who don't do anything but lie cheat and steal to get their next fix.


I wish they would:

A) learn to get over it (preferred method)

B) finish up with their lives already. they're wasting my time.(harsh, I know but I dealt with them long enough)

You sure make a wide assumption that all drug addicts are thieves, liars and cheats. That is the stigma that most people have. It is a very sad fact that you say that because allot of people that are drunks or drug addicts are the people that live next door to you parents.

I am a drug addict and a drunk but for today I am clean and sober. I never was a thief or a "waste of life loser" as you put it.
I have always made a very good living and always paid for my dope with my hard earned money.

Yes some of the people are the way you describe them but I think you might watch and believe everything you see on TV or read in the paper.
It is comments like yours that scare people away from asking for help because they are worried about what the ladies at the local church, PTA club, etc will think.

A majority of drug addicts are hooked on pain pills, then heroin, coke, etc. I did drugs because I like them I did not use them to escape from reality because of some childhood trauma. I crossed that line from a person who did drugs on the weekend to a daily junkie very fast. I have spent over a million dollars in the past 20 years on drugs. I went into rehab in 1990 because of my ounce a day coke habit. I would go in and out of 12 step programs for 20 years.

I would switch from drinking, to just coke, just pot, just heroin, etc. The shit can bring a person down fast. I had to work hard and make allot of money to support my addictions. If it was so easy to just walk away we would have no need for rehabs or 12 step programs.

I stopped when I was ready to stop no one could do it for me I had to do it for myself. All I can say is stay as far away from drugs as possible. I do not think pot is a drug either, it should be legal, I do not smoke it anymore but I wish I would of just done that.

He is an article on my story that ran in USA Today a few months ago. I also can give out a few links to some great forums for drunks and drug addicts. If anyone needs help or wants to discuss this topic any further please shoot me a pm.

Tim


http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-07-19-addiction-family_x.htm


In Tim Ryan's family, he is the addict.
Updated 7/20/2006 1:02 PM ET E-mail | Save | Print | Reprints & Permissions | Subscribe to stories like this


Enlarge By Anne Ryan, USA TODAY

Businessman Tim Ryan has been on and off drugs for the past 16 years. If not for his wife and children, he says, he'd be dead.



ABOUT THIS PROJECT

USA TODAY and HBO are collaborating on a special report on drug and alcohol addiction. This story is part of that project, which will include future reports in USA TODAY and a two-hour HBO public service special scheduled to air in March 2007. We will explore the latest research on addiction, how addiction affects lives and communities, and cutting-edge treatments.




By Rita Rubin, USA TODAY
If not for his wife and four children, Tim Ryan says matter-of-factly, he'd be dead.
Ryan, 37, estimates he has been sober, on and off, for eight of the past 16 years. He says his most recent stint began about six months ago, when he stopped drinking and using heroin. This time, he says, sobriety is going to stick.

"I spend a majority of my time with my kids," says Ryan, a partner in a Chicago information technology company who often works from his suburban home. "I look at their eyes and their faces. If I can't quit for them, I've got a problem."

Addiction is endemic in American families. A USA TODAY/HBO nationwide poll of adults April 27-May 31 found that one in five said they had an immediate relative who at some point had been addicted to alcohol or drugs. That translates into roughly 40 million American adults with a spouse, parent, sibling or child battling addiction. And that doesn't count the millions of children living with an addicted parent.

ADDICTION: A look at addiction in American families | Share your story

Many Americans might find these numbers shocking. But H. Westley Clark, who directs the Center for Substance Abuse Treatment at the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, or SAMHSA, says he's not surprised that 20% of poll respondents said they have an immediate relative who has been addicted to alcohol or drugs.

"I don't think that's particularly high," says Clark, a psychiatrist and lawyer. "Roughly half of American adults drink alcohol. You're dealing with a large number here."

Addiction is a family disease. Even if only one member is addicted to alcohol or drugs or both, all are affected. And unless addiction is dealt with as a family problem, marriages will be destroyed, and children will be at risk of repeating the cycle.

"For every person who's alcoholic or dependent on other drugs, there are at least four or five people hurt on a regular basis," says Sis Wenger, executive director of the National Association for Children of Alcoholics.

Pay attention to those four or five people as well as their addicted family member, and you increase the likelihood of a successful recovery, says Charles Curie, administrator of SAMHSA, which is part of the Department of Health and Human Services.

"More and more, you're unable to make a real impact on someone's addiction unless the family as a whole is considered," he says.

When asked for words or phrases that described addiction's effect on their family, survey respondents came up with "devastating," "abusive" and "bitter," among others. In interviews taken during the poll, the survey respondents described life with an addicted family member.

One now ex-husband says he called every drugstore within 50 miles of his home to ask pharmacists to stop filling his wife's painkiller prescriptions because she was getting duplicates from various doctors. Another spoke of how his now ex-wife would crack open a beer as soon as she got home from work and, on weekend mornings, practically as soon as she got out of bed.

Not surprisingly, when one spouse drinks heavily and the other doesn't, chances of divorce are high, says Kenneth Leonard, a senior scientist at the Research Institute on Addictions at the University at Buffalo.

But when both are heavy drinkers, researchers have found that they tend to be fairly satisfied with their marriage, says Leonard, whose research into the effects of alcoholism on marriages and children is financed by the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism.

"It's a shared activity, and it's time spent together," Leonard explains.

Husbands fall most often

When only one spouse drinks heavily or uses drugs or does both, chances are it's the husband. In the USA TODAY/HBO poll, which was conducted by Gallup and had a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points, 31% of women who had an addicted relative mentioned their spouse, compared with only 12% of men.

Tim Ryan says his wife, Shannon Ryan, 35, "barely drinks." Ask her to describe life over the years with her husband, and the word "turmoil" pretty much sums it up. When he was using drugs or drinking heavily, she says, "he was not a father, he was not a husband, he was not a friend. He was just someone who existed and brought home a paycheck."

They met when she was hired as the office administrator at his company, where he worked as director of recruiting. "I had told him the first date we went on if he was involved in drugs in any way, let me know, because I didn't want to continue with him," she recalls. "He lied to me."

Before they were married in December 1996, Shannon Ryan says, "I knew he had the alcohol issues. I didn't even change my last name for a while. A good way to start a marriage, knowing you're going to be divorced right away."

They were married at the courthouse. She was pregnant with their first child together (Ryan eventually adopted her firstborn son from a previous relationship). He was hung over, the couple say.

After their son was born, Shannon Ryan says, she began hyphenating her maiden name and her husband's last name "so I could at least be associated with him (her son) when he went to school."

Around that time she found cocaine on a shelf in the garage.

"At first, he denied it: 'It's not mine, it's a friend's.' But after a while, he admitted it," she recalls. "I was blind for a couple of years, but now the pieces were starting to fit." She'd noticed money disappearing. Now she knew why.

"And it really wasn't too long after that that he got clean for a while, for about a year," she says. "I wanted to think it would be forever, but I knew deep down it was a temporary thing. I just kind of knew that he would eventually fall.

"I think in the back of his head he had the goal, 'I'm just going to do it for a year.' "

And then their firstborn child, at age 6, was struck by a car. The boy, who is now 12, had surgery and spent a week in the hospital, followed by weeks of recuperating at home. Shannon Ryan, who was interviewed separately from her husband, figures that the accident served as a convenient reason for him to fall back into his old habits.

Over the next several years, during which their family grew by two, "he had brief moments here and there of being clean or sober," Ryan's wife recalls. "Usually, he would either drink, or he would do drugs. It was rarely combined."

Eventually, he began using heroin. "Heroin is so different from cocaine or alcohol," Shannon Ryan says. "It has such a different grab on him. It's uncontrollable."

Working at home probably helped her husband keep his recruiting job, she says. "He could use here at home. He could go out and get the heroin, and no one knew he was gone."

She says she would take him to the train station so he could go downtown to interview job candidates. Or so she thought. "This went on for two years before I realized what he was doing," she says. Besides wining and dining job prospects, her husband admits, he also was meeting drug dealers to buy heroin.

Although Ryan says he has made "well over" $100,000 each year of his marriage, his addiction left them broke. "Drugs and alcohol came first, and the bills came second," Shannon Ryan says.

They had a car repossessed, then a boat. "I had several loans go into default," she says.

"I had to borrow money to pay our electric bills. It was just sickening, making the amount of money he did. We couldn't get credit for anything."

Women pay the price

In the USA TODAY poll, women were significantly more likely than men to say that a family member's addiction had hurt their mental and physical health and their marriage, and Shannon Ryan is no exception. As a result of her husband's addiction, she says, she developed an ulcer and began taking an antidepressant.

Ryan says he can't understand why she stayed with him. She acknowledges: "I thought about leaving him a lot. To be honest, I felt really trapped, being that he was the breadwinner. I didn't have a job. I had four small children. I really couldn't go out and get a job."

So she stayed home and covered for her husband. Ryan says he frequently broke promises to take their kids to the park or to the zoo.

"The kids would be disappointed, and then I would have to pick up the slack," Shannon Ryan says. "I would have to make up excuses for him. I was doing a lot of lying to the kids."

They were young, but they weren't oblivious, she says. "The oldest one, especially. He would know when Tim was drunk, for sure. He would know when Tim was high on cocaine."

The toll on children

A nationwide household survey in 2003 found that 6 million children in the USA lived with at least one parent who abused or was addicted to alcohol or drugs during the previous year, SAMHSA director Curie says. "Children who are in critical developmental phases, who are quite young, can be profoundly impacted."

In one study, Leonard of the University at Buffalo found that among fathers of 12-month-olds, those who abused alcohol spoke less to their children and expressed less positive involvement. They also felt more negative emotions and aggravation when it came to their children. By 18 months old, children of fathers who abused alcohol had more symptoms of anxiety and depression than their peers, Leonard found.

If no one intervenes, about one in four children of alcoholics become alcoholics themselves, says Wenger of the National Association for Children of Alcoholics.

"There's a very disproportionate number of people growing up in those families who end up with addiction or abuse," she says. "These children are so good at looking OK that they fool their parents, they fool their teachers. Then they graduate from college and repeat the cycle."

Her organization works with clergy, teachers and pediatricians to identify children whose parents are addicted to alcohol or drugs.

"It's a phenomenal number of children, and they all think they're alone," Wenger says. "These children can get better, even if their parents don't, if they get the right education and support."

One of the most important lessons for these children is that alcoholism is a disease, not a shameful family secret they must keep, Wenger says. "It's almost palpable, when you're working with these kids, when they get it: 'Oh my God, it's not my fault.' "

Some addiction treatment programs involve the entire family. One of the first was Seabrook House, an inpatient treatment center in Bridgeton, N.J., which runs the yearlong MatriArk program for low-income single mothers who are dealing with addiction.

Established in 1993 with funding from SAMHSA, MatriArk opened a new $8.3 million complex in May. It contains 36 apartments of various sizes for the women and their children 12 and under, who usually join their mothers a month into treatment.

Preschoolers attend MatriArk's day care program, which specializes in working with children who have developmental problems related to their mother's drug or alcohol use. Older children go to the nearby public elementary school.

Besides treating the mothers' addiction, MatriArk teaches them how to be loving, responsible moms, says Seabrook House president Edward Diehl. They are typically daughters of single mothers who themselves were addicted, Diehl says. "Our goal is to try and not repeat the cycle in the next generation."

Ryan says fear of losing his wife and children finally drove him to go on methadone for his heroin addiction nearly a year and a half ago. "If I would have kept on the path I was, she would have left me."

He eventually switched to buprenorphine, another drug used to treat opioid addiction. Many doctors regard buprenorphine as long-term treatment for the chronic disease of addiction, but Ryan decided on his own to stop taking it after a month and a half. He says he was concerned that the longer he took it, the more difficult it would be to stop taking it.

He doesn't go to Alcoholics Anonymous meetings regularly but says he frequently talks to his AA sponsor. Ryan says he also seeks support in online recovery forums.

In the USA TODAY/HBO poll, three out of four respondents with addicted close relatives said they thought their family member could make a full recovery. However, two-thirds of them thought recovery was possible only with professional help.

Can Tim Ryan succeed?

In Ryan's favor, says Clark of SAMHSA, is the fact that he is married and has children and says he has cut his ties with substance abusers. "You're always at risk for relapse, but that doesn't mean you will relapse," Clark says.

Shannon Ryan is cautiously optimistic about her husband's chances for a long-term recovery.

"Part of it now is the kids are older, and I'm not as dependent on him anymore," she says. "I'm hopeful he's a little more fearful of falling again."

Ryan knows he has given his wife every reason to be skeptical.

"I think a lot of times she sits there going, 'When's the other shoe going to drop? Is this for real?' " he says.

"You've got to take it on a day-by-day basis."

[skinnyshrek 0]

He's not mocking you mike..Anyways, here's a challenge for you. Prove toi me there is a god and i will give you all what i possess seriously, everything i own you can have just show me some proof...Anyways, back to the drug debate...lol

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Just curious Lee, but what is it that you consider proof of God?

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

Wow! Thanks so much for sharing your story. Amazing you're here to tell it. Your wife is an amazing woman as well to hang in there with you.

_________________________________________

[JoeyRamone 0]

GOD=Good Orderly Direction

[JoeyRamone 0]

Yes Shannon is my rock and she rocks....

Thanks for the kind words. I sure believe there is a GOD, someone keep me alive for some reason. I overdosed 5 times. I should of been dead many times but I feel I was placed on this planet to be a drug addict and to get clean and be able to share my story with others. If that article helped just one person it was worth it.

Tim

[skinnyshrek 0]

Quote

Just curious Lee, but what is it that you consider proof of God?

Proof like he exists you know show me the money Prove to me there is a god and you can have my house

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Different people have different proof or means of what they consider proof. To me the proof is an emotion, a hope, and a trust. No one can prove or disprove an emotion. It may be wishful thinking, but can you disprove his existence?

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[skinnyshrek 0]

Quote

Different people have different proof or means of what they consider proof. To me the proof is an emotion, a hope, and a trust. No one can prove or disprove an emotion. It may be wishful thinking, but can you disprove his existence?

I don't need to he has not proven his existence...Unlike diseases, you can tell if they are there or not.

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Quote

I don't need to he has not proven his existence

To some people he has though. For instance (sorry Katee for the hijack...) to me I feel God has proven to me his existence because of the way life works. I see God in the good and the bad of the world. He has not proven his existence to you because to you its not logical enough. You think to much, which isnt a bad thing, and its not even bad in my opinion that you do not believe as it is a personal choice and no one should force you to believe in something you do not feel , see , or trust. Im a crappy Christian, and last year proved that, but it gives me something to strieve to be better at and it gives me something to look forward to.

If all life was, was just this, then what would the point be?

Okay back on topic.

The appeal of drugs depends on the drugs. Same as alcohol, caffiene, cigerrettes etc, and it depends on how the person behaves on those drugs. I NEED caffiene to get through a day. If I do not have coffee in ever increasing amounts then I start to suffer physical symptoms of withdrawl. I choose to not put myself through that, nor put Nathan and kids through it. Do I think people who use drugs are bad? Nope. I dont judge, we all have been there either directly or indirectly and it is not up to anyone to decide if a persons motivations for drug use are valid.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[skinnyshrek 0]

What pisses me off is my friend from england claimed he had shumakers disease then made out he found god and was cured..weirdo if you ask me but if god works for you then that is great.

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Quote

shumakers disease then made out he found god and was cured

Dont know that illness but is it curable? Does it go away on itself? Positive thinking alone has helped many illnesses, but also medicines. Or did he relay on God alone? If so then yea Id agree with you.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

Quote

edited to add: skydiving did bad things to my credit, even hurt a couple of relationships. It was all I thougth about for a time. I didn't deal with those things that bothered me because, hey, I wouldn't worry about those in a couple of days when the adrenaline is pumping.

All in 18 jumps?

Yep.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[champu 1]

Quote

To understand the allure of drugs you have to realise the desire to alter the state of your brain is natural behaviour for humans. The evidence is overwhelming; nearly all of humankind, both past and present, have choosen to indulge, be it caffeine, phychedelics, alcohol, opiates, cannabis, tobbaco, ect, ect.

For something to be this inbuilt, it must have had some evolutionary benefit at some stage. As with most natural behaviour like sex, the need to worship gods, and the urge to do battle, a few take it to the extreme, and a few don't get involved at all. These urges (allures) are not going to go away. So, until society deals with them in an objective, rational manner, god help us.

When humankind created civilization it added an asterisk to evolution for itself. Now, as a species, our survival is taken completely for granted, and what were once battles to the strong and races to the swift are now battles to the strong* and races to the swift*. Qualities that are best for the future of the species don't always receive the genetic preference they once enjoyed. Conversely, detrimental attributes aren't as readily snuffed out.

We try to bring order to something, and all we're left with is chaos.

* "strong" and "swift" according to the rules of society that we have defined, not the rules of the jungle, which are more inherent.

[Squeak 17]

Quote

***If all life was, was just this, then what would the point be?

That's the eternal question and the reason why so many cultures have developed concepts of A god, they are too scared to admit that this may very well be all that there is.
They struggle for meaning in a world where meaning may not exist.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Lindsey 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

edited to add: skydiving did bad things to my credit, even hurt a couple of relationships. It was all I thougth about for a time. I didn't deal with those things that bothered me because, hey, I wouldn't worry about those in a couple of days when the adrenaline is pumping.

All in 18 jumps?

Yep.

If the experience taught you to stay away from crack, it served its purpose.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Quote

They struggle for meaning in a world where meaning may not exist

Heres the fun part, if there is no God, Christians wont realize it when they die

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this