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Ragnarok

Lawsuit over Sullivan crash.

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http://www.columbiatribune.com/2006/Aug/20060803News013.asp

I should know how to make this a clicky.

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UNION (AP) - The parents of a woman who died along with five others in a skydiving plane crash have filed a lawsuit claiming engine failure led to their daughter’s death.

Vivian and Susan Delacroix, of Kent, England, filed the lawsuit yesterday in the death of Victoria Delacroix, 22, who was about to make her first parachute jump. The plane crashed Saturday shortly after taking off from the Sullivan airport.

Gary C. Robb, the family’s lawyer from Kansas City, filed the lawsuit in Franklin County Circuit Court in Union.

The lawsuit names United Technologies, the parent company of Pratt & Whitney, which made the PT6A turboprop engines that powered the DeHavilland DHC-6 airplane, which crashed shortly after takeoff in Sullivan.

The lawsuit also names Quantum Leap Skydiving Center, which ran the skydiving club; the Sullivan airport, which allegedly serviced the plane; and Adventure Aviation, a Delaware corporation that owned the plane; and pilot Scott Cowan, who died in the crash.
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I'm speechless........
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Twin Otter N203-Echo,29 July 2006
Cessna P206 N2537X, 19 April 2008
Blue Skies Forever

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http://www.columbiatribune.com/2006/Aug/20060803News013.asp

I should know how to make this a clicky.

_________________________________________________

UNION (AP) - The parents of a woman who died along with five others in a skydiving plane crash have filed a lawsuit claiming engine failure led to their daughter’s death.

Vivian and Susan Delacroix, of Kent, England, filed the lawsuit yesterday in the death of Victoria Delacroix, 22, who was about to make her first parachute jump. The plane crashed Saturday shortly after taking off from the Sullivan airport.

Gary C. Robb, the family’s lawyer from Kansas City, filed the lawsuit in Franklin County Circuit Court in Union.

The lawsuit names United Technologies, the parent company of Pratt & Whitney, which made the PT6A turboprop engines that powered the DeHavilland DHC-6 airplane, which crashed shortly after takeoff in Sullivan.

The lawsuit also names Quantum Leap Skydiving Center, which ran the skydiving club; the Sullivan airport, which allegedly serviced the plane; and Adventure Aviation, a Delaware corporation that owned the plane; and pilot Scott Cowan, who died in the crash.
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I'm speechless........

When I got hurt a few yrs back lawyers started calling me. They said the same thing "they'd sue EVERBODY". I told them it was my choice to get in that plane and to FUCK OFF
I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

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I have often contemplated having a disclaimer put into my will requesting that my family refrain from legal action if I should die skydiving (don't know if thats actually possible). I did not want the DZ owner or the staff who were all great people to be harranged by a lawyer on behalf of my family. If my hiatus from the sport turns ut to be a temporary one and I go back I may just do that (any lawyers please let me know if something like that could be binding?)

Richards
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

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Believe me, when the Lawyers keep calling eventually (most of the time) they will get a family member to cave in. These ambulance chasers are unethical and only want money, the whole make the world safer bit is a crock of shit. Haranging family members immediately after a traumatic event is a moral grey area. I don' know if this is the case here, but in many cases it is.
Don't get me wrong, there are good ethical lawyers out there, but it's been my experience that personal injury ones mostly are not.
IMHO

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

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Believe me, when the Lawyers keep calling eventually (most of the time) they will get a family member to cave in. These ambulance chasers are unethical and only want money, the whole make the world safer bit is a crock of shit. Haranging family members immediately after a traumatic event is a moral grey area. I don' know if this is the case here, but in many cases it is.
Don't get me wrong, there are good ethical lawyers out there, but it's been my experience that personal injury ones mostly are not.
IMHO



Yep, and most Politicians are Lawyers.

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I have often contemplated having a disclaimer put into my will requesting that my family refrain from legal action if I should die skydiving (don't know if thats actually possible).



Most of the waivers I've seen have this clause in there... It; like your will doesn't prevent the lawsuits.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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Believe me, when the Lawyers keep calling eventually (most of the time) they will get a family member to cave in. These ambulance chasers are unethical and only want money, the whole make the world safer bit is a crock of shit. Haranging family members immediately after a traumatic event is a moral grey area. I don' know if this is the case here, but in many cases it is.
Don't get me wrong, there are good ethical lawyers out there, but it's been my experience that personal injury ones mostly are not.
IMHO



I did some work once with some lawyers from one of the largest product liability firms in the world. They made no bones about the fact that they have a "scorched Earth" approach to pursuing the interests of their clients (in other words, take no prisoners and don't worry about collateral damage in getting what they can for whoever is paying the bill).
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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Believe me, when the Lawyers keep calling eventually (most of the time) they will get a family member to cave in. These ambulance chasers are unethical and only want money



People are responsible for their own actions. In thi case blaming the lawyers is the easy way out. Blame the family members who decided to sue.

If you decide to blame the lawyers, then some blame has to go to the DZO in these cases as well. They advertise how wonderfula tandem is. What a great sensation. How safe their dropzone has been and how their dropzone is a better choice than others etc etc.

I agree that lawyers who hound for these lawsuits are scum. But, and it is a big but, if you believe in personal responsibility, then the lawyers aren't to blame....

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I received an interesting pm. It stated:

"My main beef with [the threads about the lawsuit], and I think with skydiving in general, is how people think that because they love something they assume that it should be untouchable if something wrong happens."

It got me to thinking:
- There are people who will support the Bush Administration regardless of its actions or policies.
- There are people who will bash the Bush Administration no matter what.
- There are people who support their religion no matter what.

The list could go on. We have an incidents forum where the purpose is to discuss objectively the incidents. Here are some choice quotes from billvon's post:

- "Often, when a skydiver dies, there is a desire on the part of his friends to "not speak ill of the dead" - to not suggest or imply that his death was due to a mistake he made. However, 99% of the serious injuries and fatalities in this sport are due to mistakes, and one reason the sport is gradually getting safer is that people learn from other's mistakes _before_ they make them themselves."

- "But the objective here is not to assign blame or determine if "he deserved it."

- "It's always upsetting to lose someone you know, and it can help to have a place to discuss how well you knew him, what a great person he was etc."

A post about a lawsuit seems to inflame these same passions. "A great dropzone! A great plane! A great pilot! Asshole parents and scumbag ambulance chasers."

There is a definite sense of, "Skydiving - right or wrong, it's ours and we must stand up for it." That's got its place, but has no pull with anybody other than skydiving. Ours is like a family - we privately bicker about people and things, but publically defend it to the death. It's an interesting dynamic, and one that can end up as ultimately self-destructive.

I love my profession, but when stuff is done wrong, I'll speak out against it. We attorneys need to stick together to advance our image. Still, I will speak out against those who give me a bad name.

I can explain to others why I no longer hate public defenders. I can explain to others why my opinion of criminal prosecutors is generally low. I can explain to others why I believe that criminal defense may be more honorable than prosecution. And I'll state my contempt for those like "The Dream Team" of lawyers whom I believe lost sight of the essence of their job.

These are unpopular views that I never thought I would hold, but I'll let anyone interested know why that is, and I will explain them with candor and reason, and not "Johnny Cochrane was a shyster" type of vitriol.

Defend what you love for defensible reasons. Do not attack the lawyers - that draws the issues away. By the way, Johnny Cochrane took to character assassination as a defense strategy. I find close parallels with the assassination of the lawyers' characters.

It's something to think about. Plenty have stated their "feelings." "Thoughts" are different from "feelings." I'd like to hear your "thoughts" now.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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Believe me, when the Lawyers keep calling eventually (most of the time) they will get a family member to cave in. These ambulance chasers are unethical and only want money



People are responsible for their own actions. In thi case blaming the lawyers is the easy way out. Blame the family members who decided to sue.

If you decide to blame the lawyers, then some blame has to go to the DZO in these cases as well. They advertise how wonderfula tandem is. What a great sensation. How safe their dropzone has been and how their dropzone is a better choice than others etc etc.

I agree that lawyers who hound for these lawsuits are scum. But, and it is a big but, if you believe in personal responsibility, then the lawyers aren't to blame....



Why shouldn't the family sue? They didn't sign any waiver, and they have been deprived of their daughter - a very clear loss. A tandem passenger is just that in the eyes of the law (FAR part 105), a passenger.

The ethics of ambulance chasing lawyers is something else entirely.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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"Thoughts" are different from "feelings." I'd like to hear your "thoughts" now.



I think the deaths are sad and loss is painful. During this time there are a lot of questions, demand for answers, unresolved emotions.... anger. I think that some try to use the legal system to regain the control that they had lost with the accident.

There are some of the less noble reasons... money, vengance, bitterness. And there are some "ambulance chasers" that promote this. But motive for the lawsuit aside, if a wrong occured and the courts can prove the fault directly led to the accident, then appropriate sentencing is correct.

What I think is wrong is some of the cut-throat blame used in some trials. Painting the image as a "victim" and a "demon." Absolutes and black/white imagery. Most people are NOT evil and accidents do happen.... to blame the sport, a dropzone, the pilot.... just seems harsh to me and I don't really think it gives the family the satisfaction that they think it would.

Those are my thoughts.

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I think the ability to look critically at yourself is important if you want to improve. And the honestly-given input of others (whom you should trust to be as honest as you are by and large) needs to be a part of that critical look if you're considering your setting, and not just your inner peace.

Same applies to pretty much any group, organization, profession, family, and country.

Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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Why shouldn't the family sue? They didn't sign any waiver, and they have been deprived of their daughter - a very clear loss. A tandem passenger is just that in the eyes of the law (FAR part 105), a passenger.



because their daughter was an adult and signed the waiver herself.

MB 3528, RB 1182

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Why shouldn't the family sue? They didn't sign any waiver, and they have been deprived of their daughter - a very clear loss. A tandem passenger is just that in the eyes of the law (FAR part 105), a passenger.



because their daughter was an adult and signed the waiver herself.



She cannot sign away the rights of her family, only her own rights.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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I appreciate your intelligent thoughts on this subject. I do believe that we need to hold people accountable for their own actions, and to sue someone for an obviously unintentional mechanical malfunction of an airplane engine is to say that even though the people running the dropzone did all in their power to operate sensably, when a tragedy like this occurs the tandem student is no longer responsible for making her own decision to climb aboard an airplane that she really knew nothing about, with a pilot that for all she knew, did not even have a pilot's license, to go up in the sky with the intended purpose of abandoning the relative safety of the airplane and falling through the ether and then relying on 10 pounds of plastic to save her life, all in pursuit of fun and excitement. I think she is the only one who COULD rationally make that decision, because it is HER life that hangs in the balance. Nobody else on this planet should be able to reverse that .

Just burning a hole in the sky.....

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Why shouldn't the family sue? They didn't sign any waiver, and they have been deprived of their daughter - a very clear loss. A tandem passenger is just that in the eyes of the law (FAR part 105), a passenger.



because their daughter was an adult and signed the waiver herself.



She cannot sign away the rights of her family, only her own rights.



With her decision to skydive, she chose to expose her family to the possibility of loss. But for her decision to make a skydive, her family would not have suffered this loss. In signing the waiver, she presumably assumed responsibility for any lawsuits resulting from her skydive. If the family wants to sue a dead person, they should at least include their daughter, as her decision-making started the chain of events that led to her family's loss.

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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I love my parents becaue I know for a fact that they would NEVER sue if I died in a crash, even if gross negligence was a factor. How the fuck can ANYONE spend money that was the result of a childs death???

I see these Gerber life commercials, where they offer life insurance for infants???\

I saw assholes on 9-11 complaining that they were not compensated because their stock-broker sister died!!!!!

Guess what, you will die, and nobody deserves to profit due to the cause. If I grab a girls ass at work, she gets a million bucks. If a homless guy rapes and kills a single mother of 5, the kids dont get a fucking dime.

I would be glad to confront the greedy piece of shit parents who are involved in this lawsuit. They are pieces of shit and would trade their kids for cash in any circumstance.

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Why shouldn't the family sue? They didn't sign any waiver, and they have been deprived of their daughter - a very clear loss. A tandem passenger is just that in the eyes of the law (FAR part 105), a passenger.



because their daughter was an adult and signed the waiver herself.



She cannot sign away the rights of her family, only her own rights.



With her decision to skydive, she chose to expose her family to the possibility of loss. But for her decision to make a skydive, her family would not have suffered this loss. In signing the waiver, she presumably assumed responsibility for any lawsuits resulting from her skydive. If the family wants to sue a dead person, they should at least include their daughter, as her decision-making started the chain of events that led to her family's loss.

Blues,
Dave



So what? She STILL cannot sign away other people's rights. The parents are perfectly entitled to sue and the court is entitled to render a judgment which may take into account the facts that you have stated.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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The problem isn't the people. Humans are opportunistic little bastards who'll have a go at any decent open chance to improve conditions.

The problem is a system that encourages humans to go for the wrong kind of opportunities.

Frivolous lawsuits are pretty rare in this little country. Monetary compensation, when it happens, is frequently not much at all. It's just not a good opportunity to go for, so people don't.

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So what? She STILL cannot sign away other people's rights. The parents are perfectly entitled to sue and the court is entitled to render a judgment which may take into account the facts that you have stated.




So do you think her parents should get any money for this lawsuit??

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So what? She STILL cannot sign away other people's rights. The parents are perfectly entitled to sue and the court is entitled to render a judgment which may take into account the facts that you have stated.




So do you think her parents should get any money for this lawsuit??



IF, and ONLY IF, the dropzone did something grossly negligent that resulted in their child's death.

Note: this is not directed at any particular situation/dropzone... just a general commentary on the legal issues:

Lawsuits are a way for the public to hold private citizens responsible for their actions. If what happened was an accident or simple negligence, then no, the person suing shouldn't get money, assuming the waiver covered negligence. In the US at least, you cannot waive your ability (or your family's) to sue for gross negligence, no matter what's printed on the waiver. You're signing a legal document, and the document says what the law says that the document says. The law says you cannot waive gross negligence, and therefore, the document does not waive gross negligence, and if you've committed gross negligence, you can still be sued for it no matter what's on the waiver. There's a good reason for this.

If what happened was an error, a mistake, or negligence, then the parents should lose the lawsuit and have to pay the dropzone's court costs, assuming that was also in the waiver. If what happened was the result of gross negligence (such as skipping routine maintenance on the plane for a very long time, knowing that it probably would result in problems), then yes, the parents should win the suit, if only to keep the dropzone from doing something stupid again and putting more lives at risk. If individuals are allowed to operate in a shoddy and grossly negligent manner, taking no regard for the life and safety of the people on their aircraft, and knowing they cannot be held accountable merely by having those people sign a waiver, more people are going to get hurt because not everybody is as careful and concerned about their jumpers as most DZOs.

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I'm pretty drunk right now, so I might delete this in the morning.
I can understand the parents suing the dropzone and only the dropzone, if and only if gross negligence was proven, which is obviously not the case this early. What bothers me the most is they named the pilot, dehavilland, and pratt and whitney in the lawsuit. Utter bs, and for that reason they don't deserve a penny. It proves that all they want is money for a ridiculous blanket lawsuit where the cause is not determined. I know duckwater's post was harsh, but it would not surprise me if they would trade their daughters life for money at anytime, if they got the nerve to sue everyone not even knowing who is even at fault. I work in aviation and it is not possible regardless of what some ignorant assholes may think, to design any part that will last forever. How can pratt and whitney be responsible for an engine they built 30 years ago that has been thru dozens of inspections by different parties. The manufacturer creates inspection schedules because nothing lasts forever and parts do wear out!!
The worst part about this is that they named the pilot in the lawsuit. His family lost a loved one too. Is their daughters life more valuable than Scott's? WTF!!!! This guy's family could lose their life insurance claim as well as their estate, not to mention the already loss of their loved one. What's gonna happen to his family. I know they've suffered a big loss, but naming another person that died in the crash so you can collect from his family is the lowest thing I've ever heard of especially when fault has not been determined. I highly doubt the pilot wanted to die and probably did everything he could. It would not bother me to see these parents and their lawyer to drop off the face of the earth.



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So what? She STILL cannot sign away other people's rights. The parents are perfectly entitled to sue and the court is entitled to render a judgment which may take into account the facts that you have stated.




So do you think her parents should get any money for this lawsuit??



I haven't heard the evidence. That decision is up to the court, which will, I'm sure, be told that she signed a waiver and did it voluntarily, having been told the risks of skydiving (of course, she didn't actually get to skydive at all).
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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