Israeli Tanks lined up and ready to roll

[miked10270 0]

If it helps, there is information that the Israelis are starting to fight fair!

Apparently Israel has killed 5 of it's own infantry and shot down one of it's own Apache Attack Helicopters!

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[idrankwhat 0]

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If it helps, there is information that the Israelis are starting to fight fair!

Apparently Israel has killed 5 of it's own infantry and shot down one of it's own Apache Attack Helicopters!

Mike.

For some reason I keep thinking of a quote from one of the "Alien" movies. "I say we take off and nuke it from orbit, only way to be sure."

[Darius11 12]

The Iranian President is nuts. I think I was the 1st person to start a thread about that.


As for the Holocaust I do believe it happened I also believe I can’t possibly understand what horrors those poor people must have goon threw. I can’t imagine what it would feel like to see your children killed in front of you. It makes me very sad.

But the act is what is horrifying to me. When the same thing are being done to Palestinians I feel juts as sad. I don’t search for excuses to make it seem right.
One of the pictures that is posted is an Israeli solder pointing a gun at what looks like a 5-year-old boy in front of his parents. What excuse do you have for that?

What sickens me is the people who are so happy to see another war. People who just try to find excuse after excuse to justify the crimes that Israeli has committed.

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As reported in a Syrian newspaper, "If Israel should oppose the return of the Arab refugees to their homes, the Arab governments will expel the Jews living in their countries."7

I don't agree with targeting people based on religion. But as many wrongfully assume that hating Israel means you hate Jews I can see why that Newspaper has made the same mistake.
Maybe it should say we will kick all Israeli citizens out of their homes juts like they are doing to us would make more since.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[GTAVercetti 0]

Well, this is intriguing:

An ancient book of psalms was found in a bog.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060725/ap_on_sc/ireland_ancient_book

Read the article to find out what page the book was turned too.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[SkyDekker 1,123]

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I thought that the US invaded Iraq on the basis of supporting terrorism and possessing weapons of mass destruction.

But as justification they used UN resolutions. At least at one point that was the reasoning...it has changed so many times since then....

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The UN was ineffective in Iraq just as they are ineffective in Lebanon.

Actually, turns out they were quite effective and right all along....but that is a whole different discussion...

If the UN is so ineffective, why does the US continue to veto anything that reflects poorly on Israel?

[Amazon 7]

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When the same thing are being done to Palestinians I feel juts as sad.

Do you have a link to the Israeli Auschwitz or Bergen Belsen... I would like also to see the pictures of canisters of Zyglon-B and the showers.

[christelsabine 1]

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When the same thing are being done to Palestinians I feel juts as sad.

Do you have a link to the Israeli Auschwitz or Bergen Belsen... I would like also to see the pictures of canisters of Zyglon-B and the showers.

Amazon, what Darius 11 said, really happened. But, this is more than 60 yrs ago, damned! Now, what we are facing here, is completely different to those snaky facilities the Nazi once installed. You surely do not want to see any pics of those events - and you cannot compare it to today's war scenery, which in fact is showing another kind of horror (against kids f.e.)

It's a waste of time to compare anything with the past.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Skyrad 0]

What does it matter? You can't see a uniform from an F16 at 10000ft anyway. The Israelis don't give a shit they just want to kill Lebanese and Palastinians.
if these state sponsored terrorists don't respect the uniforms of UN soldiers why would they care about Lebanese uniformed or not.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[billvon 2,400]

>You can't see a uniform from an F16 at 10000ft anyway.

Most recent attacks in which they have targeted people/vehicles on the ground have been from helicopters. In many cases, survivors of the attacks say they could hear the helicopter coming, indicating it's fairly close.

[Skyrad 0]

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Or would you defend your house and family?

Would you defend them even harder if the basement was full of ammunition and rockets and RPG's???

How about the local church... heck yeah that is a great place to store thousands of pounds of munitions.

An even bigger place... all those separate school rooms... man what a storage facility...
Sadaam really liked that one. Each room you can segregate your munitions even better.

Hospital rooms work well also. Climate controlled... plenty of room.. and the Red Cross on the roof really makes it a safe place to store/park your mobile launchers.

Face it.... there are a heck of a lot of people on here who will go out of their way to vilify anything the jews do...and I will be the first one to admit I will not support all of the crap they are pulling.... BUT they are in a very tough situation.... a few million of them... against over a few hundred million people who want to see every last one of them dead.. because of who they are. When your enemy will give you no peace.. no matter HOW much time and effort you put into it... then you only have the option of WAR.

This is simply not true. Hammas is happy to talk with Israelis and actually are. Dont belive me? Then phone them and ask them.

Press release
May 31, 2006

Gush Shalom breaking the ice towards Hamas

Avnery during meeting with legislator Sheikh Abu-Tir - in Jerusalem:

"We firmly oppose Olmert's attempt to expel you from Jerusalem!" Former Knesset Member Uri Avnery, a leading member of Gush Shalom (the Israeli Peace Bloc), met with Sheikh Muhammad Abu-Tir, Hamas Member of the Palestinian Legislative council from Jerusalem. The meeting took place at Abu-Tir's home at Zur Baher Neighbourhood in East Jerusalem. Avnery expressed total opposition to the intention of the Olmert Government to expel Abu-Tir and three other elected Parliamentarians from their Jerusalem homes. On Monday this week, the four had been summoned to the Jerusalem police headquarters and presented with an ultimatum to resign from their parliamentary positions - failure to do which would result in deprivation of their Jerusalem residency status and enable the government to deport them from their homes.

Avnery told Abu-Tir that Gush Shalom calls for the immediate opening of negotiations between the Israeli and Palestinian governments, with no preconditions and on the basis of stopping all violent acts on both sides.

Avnery stated further: "I was a Knesset member at the time when East Jerusalem was annexed to Israel. I can testify that no intention was expressed at the time to reduce the inhabitants of East Jerusalem to the status of 'permanent residents', as if they were newly-arrived immigrants asking for an Israeli residence permit which can be revoked at will. Since Palestinians have lived in Jerusalem for fifty generations at least, this is both ridiculous and a grave injustice".

Avnery added: "No less ridiculous is the attempt to boycott the elected, Hamas-headed Palestinian government, which was democratically elected by the Palestinian people".

Adam Keller, Gush Shalom Spokesperson, expects that soon a large delegation of Israeli peace movements will meet with the Hamas leadership, in order to build up an initial basis for dialogue. He mentioned that Avnery had been the first Israeli to meet with Yasser Arafat, and said: "We have played that role then, and it seems we have to do it again."

Keller reminded that Shimon Peres, on behalf of the Government of Israel when signing the Oslo Agreements, took the formal obligation not to interfere with Palestinian institutes in East Jerusalem and with the right of Palestinian Jerusalemites to elect and be elected to the Palestinian legislature. "How can we demand of the Palestinian Government to respect signed agreements, and at the same time ourselves tread them underfoot?" Keller asked.

For more information:
Uri Avnery +972-(0)505-306440
Adam Keller +972-(0)506-709603

[url]http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en[/url

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Amazon 7]

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It's a waste of time to compare anything with the past.

The saying goes.....

"Those who do not heed the past are doomed to relive it"

[Gawain 0]

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>You can't see a uniform from an F16 at 10000ft anyway.

Most recent attacks in which they have targeted people/vehicles on the ground have been from helicopters. In many cases, survivors of the attacks say they could hear the helicopter coming, indicating it's fairly close.

A helicoptor pilot would be hardpressed to be able to identify a uniform even from a few hundred feet while in motion. Combat helicoptors (especially Cobras) are not quiet.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[billvon 2,400]

>A helicoptor pilot would be hardpressed to be able to identify
>a uniform even from a few hundred feet while in motion.

Not arguing that, just pointing out that most recent attacks have been from helicopters and not higher altitude bombers.

[Andy9o8 0]

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>A helicoptor pilot would be hardpressed to be able to identify
>a uniform even from a few hundred feet while in motion.

Not arguing that, just pointing out that most recent attacks have been from helicopters and not higher altitude bombers.

I thought it was reported that the bombing of that UN watchpost was via a fighter plane from altitude. (not sure.) Fuck-ups do happen in battle, of course. And if the pilot was grossly negligent, he should be called to task for it. I know the UN & Israel had communicated about this post before it was hit, so I don't fault Kofi Annan for being very pissed. I do fault him for publicly jumping to the conclusion that it was "deliberate" before the facts of an investigation have been developed. Chalk it up to a loss of temper, I guess.

[miked10270 0]

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I thought it was reported that the bombing of that UN watchpost was via a fighter plane from altitude... Fuck-ups do happen in battle...(Kofi Annan)...publicly jumping to the conclusion that it was "deliberate" ...

The UN Observation post was a two storey structure, painted white, with "UN" painted on all sides and the roof.

Israel shelled it for 6 Hours through no less than 10 UN calls for them to cease firing on it. After each call Israel said it would cease fire. The post was then bombed by laser-guided bomb & destroyed and a UN rescue attempt was also fired on.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5217176.stm

Looks pretty deliberate to me.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[Andy9o8 0]

Still doesn't establish whether the markings were visible from altitude, or whether the individual pilot thought he was firing on X instead of Y, or whether he was mistakenly given incorrect target coordinates, etc. I've practiced enough criminal law to know that what appears to be slam-dunk probable cause at the beginning of an investigation (i.e., "Looks pretty deliberate to me") sometimes morphs into a very different picture by the time all the fact-finding has been completed. All I'm saying is it's premature to conclude, before all the facts are in and sorted out by a credible, neutral party, whether this was a deliberate act or a negligent act.

[skydyvr 0]

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Now we have returned to two countries, both at each other's throats, doing whatever they think they have to to 'win.' If there was an easy solution they would have found it decades ago.

Right. But if this were a real WAR, as you call it, 1000's of Lebanese would be dead now. Israel continues to show much restraint against a vastly weaker enemy.

. . =(_8^(1)

[miked10270 0]

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Still doesn't establish whether the markings were visible from altitude, or whether the individual pilot thought he was firing on X instead of Y, or whether he was mistakenly given incorrect target coordinates, etc.,,

A fixed post on the top of a hill. Painted white. Nothing around it. Location known to IDF (per BBC TV News)?

Israel's guarantee of safety to UN observation posts?

The 6 hours of artillery bombardment, which was directed & corrected?

The 10 calls? Plus radio calls from the post to local IDF forces, which were acknowledged? Israel's repeated promises to cease firing on the post?

It runs in my mind that the target would have to be marked by laser to guide the bomb, and Israel's current strike planes can't do that themselves... So the target marker / FAC?

I'd really call that well beyond reasonable doubt... Really beyond any doubt at all.

But if you would prefer to wait for the Israeli investigation...

Mike.

PS: I'll bet here & now that Israel's own investigation will put the blame on a single (rogue) soldier probably a junior officer, who later got killed. Very sorry. Deep regrets.

PPS: Edited to add: Apparently 10 other FIXED UN Observationposts have come under Israeli attack (according to America's ABC News), none as successfully yet.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[bch7773 0]

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Israel's guarantee of safety to UN observation posts?

The 6 hours of artillery bombardment, which was directed & corrected?

The 10 calls? Plus radio calls from the post to local IDF forces, which were acknowledged? Israel's repeated promises to cease firing on the post?

It runs in my mind that the target would have to be marked by laser to guide the bomb, and Israel's current strike planes can't do that themselves... So the target marker / FAC?

I'd really call that well beyond reasonable doubt... Really beyond any doubt at all.

But if you would prefer to wait for the Israeli investigation...

If it was deliberate by Isreal, why did it take them 6 hours of shelling and bombing to destroy a single building. It would make much more sense for them to drop a single laser guided bomb on it, so they can claim it was a technical error or something. Also then there wouldn't be 6 hours of radio calls telling them to stop.

IF they did this deliberateratly, why did they do it in the slowest, most ineffective way? They would know it would look bad.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[Darius11 12]

Will you ever stop bringing up Excuses?

The UN called. It was painted.

You tell me what is the exceptional way to mark NON-military Buildings? What would have been enough so you could see it is yet another deliberate murder by Israeli troops?

Lets go over this again. Building is painted white. Is marked UN, and the Israelis received no less then 10 phone calls.

Just be honest and admit even if Moses comes down and says the Israelis are Killing Inocent people on purpose you will find an excuse.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

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Israel's guarantee of safety to UN observation posts?

The 6 hours of artillery bombardment, which was directed & corrected?

The 10 calls? Plus radio calls from the post to local IDF forces, which were acknowledged? Israel's repeated promises to cease firing on the post?

It runs in my mind that the target would have to be marked by laser to guide the bomb, and Israel's current strike planes can't do that themselves... So the target marker / FAC?

I'd really call that well beyond reasonable doubt... Really beyond any doubt at all.

But if you would prefer to wait for the Israeli investigation...

If it was deliberate by Isreal, why did it take them 6 hours of shelling and bombing to destroy a single building. It would make much more sense for them to drop a single laser guided bomb on it, so they can claim it was a technical error or something. Also then there wouldn't be 6 hours of radio calls telling them to stop.

IF they did this deliberateratly, why did they do it in the slowest, most ineffective way? They would know it would look bad.

Let me guess if they would have dropped one bomb you would say “oh it was one bomb that went off target.”

There is one word to describe your reasoning WEAK

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[miked10270 0]

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If it was deliberate by Isreal, why did it take them 6 hours of shelling and bombing to destroy a single building. It would make much more sense for them to drop a single laser guided bomb on it, so they can claim it was a technical error or something. Also then there wouldn't be 6 hours of radio calls telling them to stop.

IF they did this deliberateratly, why did they do it in the slowest, most ineffective way? They would know it would look bad.

Yes... It's a sad reflection on the training & ability of the Israeli Artillery who were originally tasked with destroying it!

They REALLY should have got a laser designator onto the building in less than 6 hours, so that the IAF could bomb it accurately, but perhaps there just wasn't one nearby.

I'm sure that this will all be dealt with in the course of The Israeli Internal Enquiry.

In the meantime, problems with Hezb'Allah troops winning against Israelis... Inaccurate bombing & shelling... This is clearly not the Israeli Defense() Force of 1967 or 1973! Very unprofessional, and perhaps resting on the laurels of old glories for far too long?

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[Richards 0]

Not fully aware of all the facts but the idea of Isreal deliberately targetting the UN sounds like a bit of a stretch. Maybe it might help clear things up for me if someone could give me a plausible motive for Isreal deliberately targetting UN troops. Can anyone enlighten me as to a motive?

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[SkyDekker 1,123]

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Can anyone enlighten me as to a motive?

Lowers the chance of an UN peace keeping force.

[Richards 0]

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***Can anyone enlighten me as to a motive?

Lowers the chance of an UN peace keeping force.

What is the end goal in preventing that?

Richards

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.