shropshire 0 #26 April 25, 2006 (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #27 April 25, 2006 QuoteDo you have an idea what this really means? Sure.. we are finally getting to the bottom of Bush and Co real reason for all the price gouging by his Oil Buddies. He is used to living in a fucking cesspool of atmospheric polution.. and what the hell all the rest of us should as well. Visit Houston sometime.. when you are used to that stench they call air down there.. FUCK why have any real rules against pollution.. they can live with it.. The rest of the world should be able to as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterblaster72 0 #28 April 25, 2006 QuoteThe majority of the people in the US couldn't give a shit about the environment. Sad, but oh so true. Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #29 April 25, 2006 > all US vehicles can use E10. Most closed loop fuel injected vehicles can use E50 as well. I've been using it for about a year on a 2005 Prius. Note that a standard-engine vehicle gets a bit more power using E85 than gasoline, but not much. If the engine is designed from the start to use E85 you get a lot more power - you can significantly increase compression ratio due to the higher octane rating of E85. I've been wondering if you can use an Atkinson cycle engine to dynamically vary the compression ratio to get significantly more power from E85. If that's the case, the Prius would just require some new code to get a lot more power from the cheaper fuel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #30 April 25, 2006 What most people don't realize here is that it IS NOT the oil companies who are causing this.... It is the investors speculation that is driving up the cost nothing else. Gas Supplies in the USA are at 8 year Highs.... Supply and demand does not really apply to current high prices, however, if the Pres did NOT change the evironmental rules today, then prices would go higher on demand because refined gas for the driving season would not be available... Keep Blaming the oil companies though.... it is funny. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #31 April 25, 2006 QuoteMajority rules right??? Democracy right?? Wait, you aren't under the impression that politicians are in any way obligated to do what the people want are you? What an incredibly strange concept We elect politicians to do what they want to do, and hope they were honest in their campaign manifestos.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #32 April 25, 2006 >Keep Blaming the oil companies though.... it is funny. The oil companies are, of course, setting gas prices. If they set lower prices, people would pay the lower price, and they would simply make less profit. Since they just reported record profits there is clearly some room for reduction. The issue is that no public US companies operate like that. They don't charge the most friendly price, they charge the absolute highest price they can for their product - and in many cases that price is set by a market like the futures market. That's how capitalism works. Indeed, a company that did not do that would quickly go out of business. Capitalism rewards the most profitable companies, not the most consumer-friendly (although sometimes a company is smart enough to do both.) >however, if the Pres did NOT change the evironmental rules today, > then prices would go higher on demand because refined gas for the > driving season would not be available... Yes, and as prices went up, people would buy more efficient cars, which would result in gas prices dropping. (Or, in reality, just not rising as fast.) But this isn't a solution in the long term. Me (and several other people) have been warning that this was going to happen for about a decade now. Ten years ago we needed to be pushing for electric vehicles, wide adoption of E85, natural gas vehicles, Stirling engine vehicles, and hybrids. Out of all of those things, we barely got hybrids before oil prices got really bad. What we have to do RIGHT NOW is go after those technologies as hard as we can. Sure, it will take ten years to get them widely accepted - but they are going to be needed. Oil sure isn't going to be cheaper in ten years. Band-aids like elimination of pollution controls is going to do far more harm than good in the long run. Time to start planning for the long run and not just the next two weeks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #33 April 25, 2006 QuoteWhat most people don't realize here is that it IS NOT the oil companies who are causing this.... It is the investors speculation that is driving up the cost nothing else. Gas Supplies in the USA are at 8 year Highs.... Supply and demand does not really apply to current high prices, however, if the Pres did NOT change the evironmental rules today, then prices would go higher on demand because refined gas for the driving season would not be available... Keep Blaming the oil companies though.... it is funny. CONGRATULATIONS - You finally said something with some truth to it! What we need to do is break the bond between speculation and price. I mean, supply and demand needs to based on current realities, not fairy tales. I don't know how to do this, or if it can be done, but then again, I'm not a big-wig government official. What is the answer? Approach alternative energy with the same will we applied toward going to the moon a few decades back. If we did that, we could get some options. Can't you conservatives get behind breaking our oil dependence? Or do you prefer being beholden to those who would just as soon see us all dead? Z -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #34 April 25, 2006 QuoteQuoteDo you have an idea what this really means? It means he has relaxed environmental regulations applicable to the oil industry so they can more easily achieve their profit goals while also hoping to see a bump in his abysmally low approval rating. Bad for the environment Good for the oil industry Purely political motivation The only surprise is that he didn't do it years ago. Blues, Dave Ah yes Evil_________ you fill in the blank"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #35 April 25, 2006 It's one big popularity contest. All politicians are worried about is staying in office and looking good. When people start to bitch in mass then the politican does what he has to do to make the masses happy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #36 April 25, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteDo you have an idea what this really means? It means he has relaxed environmental regulations applicable to the oil industry so they can more easily achieve their profit goals while also hoping to see a bump in his abysmally low approval rating. Bad for the environment Good for the oil industry Purely political motivation The only surprise is that he didn't do it years ago. Ah yes Evil_________ you fill in the blank "doers"? I don't know. Do you disagree with my post? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #37 April 25, 2006 Here is the ultimate problem with Oil though. It is not that we consumers want cheap oil, it is that we want cheap ENERGY. The truth is, if we do break bonds with oil, prices are going to drop so dramatically that we will then begin to use oil again because it is so cheap. somewhat of a paradox. The less dependant we become the more likely we will want to use it and become dependant. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #38 April 25, 2006 Quote>What we have to do RIGHT NOW is go after those technologies as hard as we can. Sure, it will take ten years to get them widely accepted - but they are going to be needed. Oil sure isn't going to be cheaper in ten years. Band-aids like elimination of pollution controls is going to do far more harm than good in the long run. Time to start planning for the long run and not just the next two weeks. you tell 'em bill - any government interference with the oil market likely does more harm than good though. Other than making some segments 'feel' good. But promoting alternate energy sources and technologies I can really get behind too. The standardization curve is too long. It's a good business decision. I think if we just spend more time talking about how much investors and inventors can make by coming up with alternate ideas and products and less time with PC crap about the environment and the politics of it, the better for all. Sorry, the PC marketing aspect makes most investors think they are wasting their time on something that requires sacrifice for the 'greater good'. So why bother? When, in reality, this stuff is a huge untapped market that can make some really enterprising inventers and investors rich. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #39 April 25, 2006 YES! The reasons for the rise in gas prices are in the market if one cares to look. (but it is much easier to blame a corp) If gas formulas are so damed important to the air then why don't we use one (the cleanest) formula? Because the local EPAs don't want that. No refineries have been built for 30 years but how much has demand went up? The "evil" big oil companies are making more money because they had to merg to survive years back. Now they are seeing the benifits (did you care when they were breaking even or loosing money?) They are making about .10 cents per gallon profit (less than a 10% return on the investment.....many companies make more than that) according to industry watch dogs yet the fed gov gets more than .30 cents per gallon (are they raping us?) The enviro wackos are the biggest cause of the rise in the cost. Because of thier influence we now have federally controlled production limits. Yes, I do dissagree with your posts Edited to add: I agree with the political motivation statement. The real reaosns are not, and will not, be addressed because of politics......."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #40 April 25, 2006 Face it.. the Shrubs buddies want to drill the North Slope in the Arctic refuge. They are using the tried and true republican scare tactics on the american people once again by manipulating oil supplies and shortages they themselves created by shutting down refineries around the country.... and NOW they are claiming... they want to build more..SHIT just reopen the ones they already closed. They want to make short term GROSS profits by selling the oil to Japan and Asia.. since very little of the crude hat comes out of there now actually comes south.. it goes to Asia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #41 April 25, 2006 WOW... where is your data to back that crazy talk up? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #42 April 25, 2006 Quote The enviro wackos are the biggest cause of the rise in the cost. Because the the influence of them we now have federally controlled production limits. Yes, I do dissagree with your posts So, basically you are saying 'Fuck the environment?' Or did I miss something? Z -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #43 April 25, 2006 Quote Edited to add: I agree with the political motivation statement. The real reaosns are not, and will not, be addressed because of politics....... So let me see if understand you. I made three claims, that this move was bad for the environment, good for the oil industry, and politically motivated. You don't think it's bad for the environment or good for the oil companies, but you do agree that it's politically motivated. Have I correctly summarized your points of disagreement? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #44 April 25, 2006 QuoteNo refineries have been built for 30 years but how much has demand went up? Yeah.. but how about all the refineries the Shrubs benefactors CLOSED.. so they could manipulate SUPPLY... QuoteThey are making about .10 cents per gallon profit (less than a 10% return on the investment..... DUDE.. what the fuck are you smoking... you CANT really believe that shit do you QuoteThe enviro wackos are the biggest cause of the rise in the cost BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Hallucinations really suck... but you persist in your support for these guys no matter WAHT kind of crap they spoon feed you......These people are used to living in multi-coloered air and dont have any kind of olfactory receptacles left in thier greedy little heads...they live in an ecological nightmare and want the rest of the world to do so.. because...welll ....they dont think its so bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #45 April 25, 2006 QuoteWOW... where is your data to back that crazy talk up? Ever thought about taking some classes in critical thinking?? When your points of view all come from Newsmax and Fox News.. there might be a bit of discrepancy from reality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #46 April 25, 2006 Please show me proof that the Pres and his "Buddies" closed refineries for profiteering... Or is that what your conspiracy theory web site told you? ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #47 April 25, 2006 and the same to you Air America :-) ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #48 April 25, 2006 QuoteWOW... where is your data to back that crazy talk up? Here's a start: http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_expc_a_EP00_EEX_mbbl_m.htm -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #49 April 25, 2006 Also, you may want to calm down.... Your tone and comments could get you in trouble. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #50 April 25, 2006 OK, I went to the site and still did NOT find proof the President had refineries closed so oil companies could make larger profits. So, instead of Amazon skirting the question with attacks, he/she should answer the question. Where is your proof? QuoteQuoteWOW... where is your data to back that crazy talk up? Here's a start: http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_expc_a_EP00_EEX_mbbl_m.htm ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
