OK, I have decided to become a Christian...

[rehmwa 2]

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if God is omnipotent, why is any sacrifice necessary?

to appease the giants that live in the volcano

SHHEEEEEESH

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 1,623]

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I think everyone does have a desire for heaven, because God created humans with an inborn desire for eternity; God did not create us humans just to live on earth, and that's it.

That's so very sweet of you to try so hard to get people to believe. You have a good heart. Quite honestly, let the non believers go about their way. Let them criticize. You've done your part as a Christian should have done. Let God do the rest. You can't twist anyone's arm to believe what we believe. I share your same sentiment. I want the whole world to be saved but you know what? This is reality. Only God can save the whole world. We just have to do our part and what we were made to do.

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and further, what's so arrogant about my beliefs? What's so arrogant about believing the bible is true?

If someone is not saved, they will not believe in the bible. They will think this was written by men 5,000 years ago. They will think it's obselete. They just read few scriptures that say God commands gays to be killed, adulterers to be killed, and theives and sinners to be killed. There's more to it than that. The new testament has the teachings of Christ and he tells all of us to love one another and forgive one another and pray for one another. People don't read that part of the bible. They won't get to see how wise and wonderful his teachings are.

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Rubbish. There are plenty of people who are very familiar with the Bible who simply don't believe it anything more than myth (and for good reason).

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,623]

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if God is omnipotent, why is any sacrifice necessary?

to appease the giants that live in the volcano

SHHEEEEEESH

Why didn't I think of that?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SuperKat 0]

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if God is omnipotent, why is any sacrifice necessary?

Splain Lucy. Please elaborate. What type of a sacrifice are you talking about?

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[billvon 2,400]

>They will think this was written by men 5,000 years ago. They will
> think it's obselete. They just read few scriptures that say God
> commands gays to be killed, adulterers to be killed, and theives
> and sinners to be killed. There's more to it than that. The new
> testament has the teachings of Christ and he tells all of us to love
> one another and forgive one another and pray for one another.
> People don't read that part of the bible. They won't get to see how
> wise and wonderful his teachings are.

But that's all true. It was written by men. Heck, it could have been written in Jesus' own hand, and it would still have been written by a man. Just about all branches of Christianity agree with this. The degree of divine _inspiration_ is what they argue about.

Now, parts of the Bible are clearly not followable by moral people (Leviticus) because they're obsolete or not to be taken literally. Parts of the Bible are very much worthwhile if you want to live a moral life (the Sermon on the Mount.) So even the best Christian picks and chooses which parts of the Bible to heed, using whatever logic/reasoning they choose. That way you can get the good without the bad.

[ernokaikkonen 0]

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Jesus said, those that don't believe that he is their Lord and Savior will answer to God and be judged. Those that welcome him with all their heart as their Lord and Savior will live in heaven for all eternity.

So even when I didn't believe in Jesus while I was alive, I still get a fair judgement by God, and if he thinks "Yeah, ok, you did well enough" I still get to go to heaven?

Or am I completely off here and "judged by God" means judging of the old-school way with lots of smiting and furious anger?

[SuperKat 0]

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Rubbish. There are plenty of people who are very familiar with the Bible who simply don't believe it anything more than myth (and for good reason).

Be specific man. Which part is rubbish?

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[SuperKat 0]

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So even when I didn't believe in Jesus while I was alive, I still get a fair judgement by God, and if he thinks "Yeah, ok, you did well enough" I still get to go to heaven?

You need a qualified pastor to answer this question.

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Or am I completely off here and "judged by God" means judging of the old-school way with lots of smiting and furious anger?

Why think about that? Why not think about the Love God has for you? Why not love strangers, help them, and care for them. Why should you hate or gossip? Why not be very forgiving? These are all good things my friend. You're only thinking about the end result. What about the middle part?

It's like when you were young, when Mommy or Daddy told you to keep quiet but while they were away, you were yapping away and then in their presence you were quiet again. Then, little did you know, they were video taping you and saw that you were yapping and then grounded you for it. Why wait for the end result? What harm is it in forgiving others, loving one another, not gossiping about others, and being kind and giving to others? How is it going to kill you to believe in Jesus and his teachings? What harm can that cause another person? You're missing the middle of it and you just keep thinking end result.

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[SuperKat 0]

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But that's all true. It was written by men. Heck, it could have been written in Jesus' own hand, and it would still have been written by a man. Just about all branches of Christianity agree with this. The degree of divine _inspiration_ is what they argue about.

I recommend everyone who is interested to go to http://www.carm.org

It'll help answer most of your questions about the bible.

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Now, parts of the Bible are clearly not followable by moral people (Leviticus) because they're obsolete or not to be taken literally. Parts of the Bible are very much worthwhile if you want to live a moral life (the Sermon on the Mount.) So even the best Christian picks and chooses which parts of the Bible to heed, using whatever logic/reasoning they choose. That way you can get the good without the bad.

They sell bibles which only contain the new testament. People can just go by that. There's nothing about hating or killing in there. The only hating in killing in the new testament is when Christ had to suffer through the hating and killing.

The old testament has a lot of stories about God's people and the sufferings they had to go through and some history. You can't base it on one verse that commanded people to murder gays and what not. That's like judging a book based on one page.

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[Stumpy 256]

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Why not love strangers, help them, and care for them. Why should you hate or gossip? Why not be very forgiving? These are all good things my friend.

Why do i need a deity to tell me that these are good things? I'm capable of independent thought. (sometimes )

Sure the 10 commandments are good rules to follow. Damn, before i read them i was about to run out and kill someone. Shucks.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[GTAVercetti 0]

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I recommend everyone who is interested to go to [url"http://www.carm.org]http://www.carm.org[/url]

It'll help answer most of your questions about the bible.

You and pajarito. One of you HAS to run that site.


I love when I get reference to sites WRITTEN BY CHRISTIANS for explanation of why interpretations they have reached are the correct ones. They believe their ideas, so OF COURSE they are going to rationalize them.

You really would think that a book created to help us find God would not REQUIRE apologists. Yet inevitably, carm.org gets quoted every 5 posts.

(I don't really mind if you believe it or not. I am just giving you a hard time for the hell of it.)

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[billvon 2,400]

>They sell bibles which only contain the new testament. People can just go by that.

Exactly! They can choose what part they heed.

>The old testament has a lot of stories about God's people and the
>sufferings they had to go through and some history. You can't base
>it on one verse that commanded people to murder gays and what
>not. That's like judging a book based on one page.

Well, more like 20 pages. But I agree that you can't judge the validity of the Bible by what is contained in its history. That would be like judging America based on the Salem witch trials, our treatment of native americans, slavery and Japanese internment camps. They are part of our history, sure, but they are not what we are about now. Same with the Bible (or more accurately with Christianity.)

[windcatcher 0]

Yes you are right; there are people whom I believe know God to be real, but they still reject Him. It is up to each individual how to live their life--if they don't want God, God will let them live their life however they want to.

Ya know what, honestly it used to bother me when people thought I was an idiot because of my beliefs; but now I realize, there's no need to feel bad. The Bible says the Cross is foolishness to the world.

According to the world, I am a fool for Jesus Christ.
However, no one or nothing can ever get me to deny his love or his existence or his saving grace.

Knowing God is awesome, having someone who loves me unconditionally, having someone who can help me become less selfish, more loving, forgiving,etc.
People can hate me or reject me all they want.
( If God is for us, who can be against us?)

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[SuperKat 0]

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Why do i need a deity to tell me that these are good things? I'm capable of independent thought.

Dude, no one is forcing anything down your throat. Do as you wish. Live life they way you want to. If you're interested in Christianity, then by all means, be curious.

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[SuperKat 0]

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Ya know what, honestly it used to bother me when people thought I was an idiot because of my beliefs; but now I realize, there's no need to feel bad.

I'm glad you feel that way. You can't get everyone to understand your belief. You just worry about yourself missy.

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Knowing God is awesome, having someone who loves me unconditionally, having someone who can help me become less selfish, more loving, forgiving,etc.
People can hate me or reject me all they want.

Amen sister! Remember what Jesus said....if people hate me, they will surely hate you for believing in me.

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[Andy9o8 0]

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That would be like judging America based on the Salem witch trials, our treatment of native americans, slavery and Japanese internment camps.

Or indefinite imprisonment of suspected terrorists without criminal charges, habeas corpus or Geneva Convention protections as POWs; or torturing human beings at Abu Graib and Guantanamo, or transporting our prisoners to 3rd countries knowing fully well that they will be tortured upon their arrival.
But that's not what we're about today.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[SuperKat 0]

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You and pajarito. One of you HAS to run that site.

We both do. I forgot to mention to leave a donation of $5 before you leave the site, via paypal.

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You really would think that a book created to help us find God would not REQUIRE apologists. Yet inevitably, carm.org gets quoted every 5 posts.

It's a great site. Too bad I don't have as much free time on my hands, like most of you guys posting here, then I'd be able to read everything. Oh did I type that? Oh well.

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(I don't really mind if you believe it or not. I am just giving you a hard time for the hell of it.)

Why I oughta send you to the moon buddy!

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[windcatcher 0]

People can believe whatever they would like; however, I for one am not going to sit in the sidelines and not protest against something that I believe is wrong.

Every human has the right to accept God or reject Him, it's their choice. I am here simply to pray for people, love them, answer their questions about my faith as best I know how, and have an awesome relationship with God.

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[Zenister 0]

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Yes you are right; there are people whom I believe know God to be real, but they still reject Him. It is up to each individual how to live their life--if they don't want God, God will let them live their life however they want to.

Ya know what, honestly it used to bother me when people thought I was an idiot because of my beliefs; but now I realize, there's no need to feel bad. The Bible says the Cross is foolishness to the world.

According to the world, I am a fool for Jesus Christ.
However, no one or nothing can ever get me to deny his love or his existence or his saving grace.

Knowing God is awesome, having someone who loves me unconditionally, having someone who can help me become less selfish, more loving, forgiving,etc.
People can hate me or reject me all they want.
( If God is for us, who can be against us?)

ah yes.. the 'my security blanket makes me feel warm' argument for truth...

God doesnt care about your blanket or your text, there is far more to Divinity than your socially, culturally, myopic belief of the myths of your carpenter...

when one is looking for shelter, if the first house you enter is warm and comfortable.. why not convince yourself it is the only 'real' house in existence, better than any other (yes i'm aware of the paradox.. most Xtains are not) those you've never seen, entered, slept in or contemplated?

Happiness thru denial is a good way to remain ignorant of true divinity...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[rehmwa 2]

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Happiness thru denial is a good way to remain ignorant of true divinity...

2 beautiful words

De - nial

keeping the world safe and unsafe simultaneously for centuries

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[windcatcher 0]

Zen, I am amazed you ALWAYS have the answers to everything

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[Dolph 0]

Pajarito, I'll apologize again in advance if I come off as bashing your faith. The arguments presented are thoughts in my mind put to words and should be construed a such.

God's moral law spelled out in ten commandments.

But they are primarily don'ts - they're there to prevent you from doing evil, they're not encouraging in themselves good deeds. Aside from the first five or so, they say "don't be evil". Agreed - but not being evil does not automatically translate to being good.

Following rules does not a moral man make. The motives behind your behaviour, thoughts shared and withhold, actions taken and not taken drives morality. And all is filtered through a layer of culture.

The False Choice. Choose between eternal pain and eternal bliss. This choice is not one made on moral grounds; rather it inspires a selforiented egotistic choice. It is so heavily loaded had it been a canopy, even Jim Slaton would go "dude, wtf?!?". Looking out for number one gives you the reward. Disobeying the rules gives you the punishment.

A truly altruistic, moral deed is one that is done for the benefits of others, despite no reward for it - or even despite severe punishment for the act. If the motive is to get rewarded or to avoid punishment - well, that is rational in itself as Cicero eloquently argued - but the morality of the act (and not the good it does) can be questioned.

For the religious the answers, what you must do, are there - and it is generally speaking not a lot. It covers "do not mess things up too badly and try to do good". You are forgiven for your weaknesses, for your selfishness, for your lack of doing better. This is God Given, if you follow the rules.

I envy you for having such faith; for me there is no such relief. I know I can do more, yet I do not act. There is one person I have to convince - myself - and that's proving exceedingly difficult.

I started out thinking it is harder for religious people to obtain an inner positive belief in their morality. That belief has been weakened somewhat.

Because, quite basically, we're not doing nearly enough. Not even close. Each of us with such a great potential.

The powers that may be must indeed be generous if they can forgive us.

[kallend 1,623]

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Rubbish. There are plenty of people who are very familiar with the Bible who simply don't believe it anything more than myth (and for good reason).

Be specific man. Which part is rubbish?

What you wrote.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,623]

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But that's all true. It was written by men. Heck, it could have been written in Jesus' own hand, and it would still have been written by a man. Just about all branches of Christianity agree with this. The degree of divine _inspiration_ is what they argue about.

I recommend everyone who is interested to go to http://www.carm.org

It'll help answer most of your questions about the bible.

Here is another source about the Bible. From a very respected biblical scholar.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[pajarito 0]

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This is good too. I can relate to this but saying something like this comes off a little too strong. It's the truth but sometimes people don't want to hear who goes to heaven or not if they do this or that or if they didn't do this or that. It turns people off. And it gives people an ultimatum.

I totally disagree. I was expressing the news of the gospels just like Jesus did. He gave an ultimatum. He spoke in no uncertain terms what is required for salvation. He said salvation only comes through faith in him and repentance of sin. I fully realize this is a stumbling block for most. Jesus made it clear that it would be. He said he didn’t come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. He said that he is the only way. People don’t want to accept this because it requires a radical change in one’s self. It requires a turn in the opposite direction from our worldly and ungodly nature (selfish pride). Most people would rather sacrifice an arm or their eye than give up that. Jesus said, however, to cut off one’s hand or pluck our one’s eye if it caused them to sin because it would be better than suffering in hell forever. I wouldn’t call that sugar-coating the subject so as not to offend people with the truth. The path to righteousness is narrow.

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You have to know Christ and want him to come into your heart. With this, heaven is automatic and eternal damnation is out of sight and out of mind. We shouldn't tell non-believers about judgement. We should only express God's love through Jesus Christ.

I heard a cool word with regard to this not long back called one’s primary interpretive motif. It has to do with the central theme by which someone interprets scripture. For some, as your statement above leads me to believe, it is all about love (e.g. God is love, Jesus is love, he wouldn’t damn anyone to hell b/c he expressed his infinite love for us all). While it is absolutely true that God (Jesus) loves “all” of us and doesn’t wish that anyone should perish and said this many times in the scriptures, the central theme is salvation by grace through faith in Jesus. He is the way, the truth, and the life and no one comes to the father but through him. The wages of sin (breaking God’s moral law) is death. God loved us so much that he became the man of Jesus and paid our fine in full with an ultimate sacrifice. God is love and holy, however; he is also just. Our sins will be judged one day. A “just” judge must punish sin (just like if we break a law in our system of law).

Judgment is exactly what we should tell non-believers because that is exactly what Jesus did and it is the most important thing they’re likely to hear. If you saw someone barreling down the road towards a bridge that was out, would you not try and warn them? I would. The problem is most do not know that they are on that path. If one is sick and everyone around them is also sick, you’re not likely to know that you’re sick. That’s where the law comes in. They’re not likely to want a cure until shown the symptoms of being sick in the first place. Paul said he didn’t know he’d broken the law until it was shown to him. Just telling people about love is very watered down and is a big reason for so many false conversions or people falling away from the faith.