billvon 2,400
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Shotgun 1
QuoteChristian don't claim to have a corner market on spaces in heaven. A christian cannot boast about being saved and know that they will go to heaven
Isn't that what windcatcher just did a few posts ago? So are you saying that she is not a Christian, even after that whole "proud to be a Christian" thread?
IanHarrop 37
QuoteQuote
Can we just merge this thread with the Thread and be done with it?
NO!!! Keeping you Christians busy looking at as many threads as possible so you are not out brain-washing innocent victims seems like a good idea to me!
You Christians? have you even READ the Thread?
I try not to but get sucked into it now and then - yes it covers a broad range of topic and thats good!
Keeps you Christians busy rather than sucking people into your cult!
"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy
Quote
I try not to but get sucked into it now and then - yes it covers a broad range of topic and thats good!
Keeps you Christians busy rather than sucking people into your cult!
No, I meant, why are you calling ME a Christian? While I believe Jesus existed, I certainly DON'T live as a "Christian" should.
If you read the Thread, you might know that.
Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.
SuperKat 0
As usual I stand corrected by Billvon. Who knows why christians judge those that are not saved. I personally don't believe they should do that. Christians are taught to not judge others but to pray for them. I suppose if a christian were to be judgemental on others that are not saved, that person should be viewed as an individual. I get a little annoyed at those christians that pass judgement on others and gossip about others that are not saved. Christians fall out of grace quite often. We're not superhuman. It's very difficult to maintain your christianity in this world. There are just too many temptations that Christians face. However, Christians are taught to not think so highly of themselves and lowly of those that are not saved. As I said before, should a christian boast about their being saved and passing judgement on others that are not saved will one day be judged by others.QuoteA great many do. You can claim they are not real Christians - but that comes perilously close to judging them, does it not?
What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?
SuperKat 0
QuoteCan we just merge this thread with the Thread and be done with it?
Of course we can, but if you and others keep replying to posts, how can you end the thread?
What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?
QuoteAs usual I stand corrected by Billvon. Who knows why christians judge those that are not saved. I personally don't believe they should do that. Christians are taught to not judge others but to pray for them. I suppose if a christian were to be judgemental on others that are not saved, that person should be viewed as an individual. I get a little annoyed at those christians that pass judgement on others and gossip about others that are not saved. Christians fall out of grace quite often. We're not superhuman. It's very difficult to maintain your christianity in this world. There are just too many temptations that Christians face. However, Christians are taught to not think so highly of themselves and lowly of those that are not saved. As I said before, should a christian boast about their being saved and passing judgement on others that are not saved will one day be judged by others.QuoteA great many do. You can claim they are not real Christians - but that comes perilously close to judging them, does it not?
You are a pretty rational dude.
Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.
QuoteQuoteCan we just merge this thread with the Thread and be done with it?
Of course we can, but if you and others keep replying to posts, how can you end the thread?
It will not end. It will join the Thread and continue on forever. And the glory shall be known far and wide.
Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.
IanHarrop 37
QuoteQuote
I try not to but get sucked into it now and then - yes it covers a broad range of topic and thats good!
Keeps you Christians busy rather than sucking people into your cult!
No, I meant, why are you calling ME a Christian? While I believe Jesus existed, I certainly DON'T live as a "Christian" should.
If you read the Thread, you might know that.
So you belive in Jesus but are not living like a Christian should - sounds like most of the Christians I know!
"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy
Quote
So you belive in Jesus but are not living like a Christian should - sounds like most of the Christians I know!
Dude, I said I believed he EXISTED. And the difference is that I KNOW I am not living as a Christian, because I don't consider myself one.
So stop lumping me into the "cult."
Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.
IanHarrop 37
Okie Dokie!
"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy
billvon 2,400
QuoteI suppose if a christian were to be judgemental on others that are not saved, that person should be viewed as an individual. I get a little annoyed at those christians that pass judgement on others and gossip about others that are not saved. Christians fall out of grace quite often. We're not superhuman. It's very difficult to maintain your christianity in this world. There are just too many temptations that Christians face. However, Christians are taught to not think so highly of themselves and lowly of those that are not saved. As I said before, should a christian boast about their being saved and passing judgement on others that are not saved will one day be judged by others.
Well said! I think if more people had that attitude we'd have far fewer problems with religion throughout the world.
SuperKat 0
QuoteWell said! I think if more people had that attitude we'd have far fewer problems with religion throughout the world.
Thanks. Sometimes I just wish those christians that judge others see their faults first. I never try to convince anyone to cross to the other side. However, if they come to me with questions or if they're interested in knowing more about Christianity, I try to lead them in the right path. I'm only harsh to fallen christians or those Christians that are judgemental. I try to let them know where they stand and how they have no right to judge anyone. Unfortunately, I have a life to live, a job to work at, and bills to pay. I also enjoy certain luxuries. Therefore, I cannot devote my time like missionaries do to help others. I can only do what's convenient for me at that given moment.
What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?
Okay, here we go again. It it my belief that God is real. It is my belief that the Bible is the infallible, inspired word of God.
What does the Bible say about salvation? What does the Bible say about who will be in heaven?
Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; No Man comes to the Father by through Me." ( John 14:6)
I am not saying I know who all will be in heaven and who won't...I don't know that. However, the Bible says we can have assurance of our salvation.
If you don't believe that, that's fine. If you don't believe the Bible is true, that's your belief, not mine.
You have the right to believe that, just like I have the right to believe what I believe. If you would like to think that people don't need Jesus to get into heaven, that's your belief---not mine.
Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...
What does the Bible say about salvation? What does the Bible say about who will be in heaven?
Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; No Man comes to the Father by through Me." ( John 14:6)
I am not saying I know who all will be in heaven and who won't...I don't know that. However, the Bible says we can have assurance of our salvation.
If you don't believe that, that's fine. If you don't believe the Bible is true, that's your belief, not mine.
You have the right to believe that, just like I have the right to believe what I believe. If you would like to think that people don't need Jesus to get into heaven, that's your belief---not mine.
Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...
Dolph 0
You know, this leads to a question I ask myself, about my morality. And I do not belong to an organised religion:
Given that I keep a great deal of my energy and potential solely to myself when it could do great good, do the comparatively minor good moral things I do make me a moral person?
Relative to some other people yes. In more absolute terms - an absolute no. It makes me a selfish egoistic bastard who's primarily looking out for number one. Just like 99.95% of the rest of the population.
Now, I do not have a dogma which compels me to do good - it's all touchy-feely inner moral compass. You on the other hand have on authority of God a set of guidelines to follow.
My question is: how is it possible to feel like a moral human being, knowing you're (you in a general sense) not doing everything you can? It'd be an even harder question for you to answer, given the authority you have behind you. Unless there are some loopholes I am unaware of.
I don't do much evil. I do some good. I could do a shitload more. Like most people. What does that make us?
Given that I keep a great deal of my energy and potential solely to myself when it could do great good, do the comparatively minor good moral things I do make me a moral person?
Relative to some other people yes. In more absolute terms - an absolute no. It makes me a selfish egoistic bastard who's primarily looking out for number one. Just like 99.95% of the rest of the population.
Now, I do not have a dogma which compels me to do good - it's all touchy-feely inner moral compass. You on the other hand have on authority of God a set of guidelines to follow.
My question is: how is it possible to feel like a moral human being, knowing you're (you in a general sense) not doing everything you can? It'd be an even harder question for you to answer, given the authority you have behind you. Unless there are some loopholes I am unaware of.
I don't do much evil. I do some good. I could do a shitload more. Like most people. What does that make us?
QuoteI never fail to be amazed at the arrogance of people who preach that only those who share their particular theology will go to Heaven. Born-again Christians aren't the only ones in the world who do that, but boy, they sure do it
So you're saying Jesus is arrogant then?
Jesus answered "I am the way, and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
What is so arrogant about someone having beliefs that don't match yours?
Furthermore, why would it bother you or anyone else about who is in heaven or who gets to go there?
Why would anyone want to go to heaven, when they would be with God for eternity, yet claim He doesn't exist?
I mean, why do people get so upset about heaven, when they think they won't be allowed in? ( when someone's beliefs state that?)
Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...
QuoteIt makes me a selfish egoistic bastard who's primarily looking out for number one. Just like 99.95% of the rest of the population.
Yes, I am selfish and egotistical too.
QuoteMy question is: how is it possible to feel like a moral human being, knowing you're (you in a general sense) not doing everything you can?
I would like to try and answer your question as best as I know how.
I strive to become more like Jesus everyday, striving to love people, especially people who curse me and hate me and treat me like crap. ( It's definitely not always easy
). I try and follow Jesus, the way He would do things. Now, does this mean that no matter how hard I try, I will still mess up and as you say "not do everything I can?" Yes.
I strive to follow God's word and do everything I believe to be right, but I constantly fail, because I am an imperfect human being. However, I do try and get back up again, and life a live worthy of being called a follower of Christ; it's not easy, but the end is worth it.
Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...
SuperKat 0
QuoteMy question is: how is it possible to feel like a moral human being, knowing you're (you in a general sense) not doing everything you can? It'd be an even harder question for you to answer, given the authority you have behind you. Unless there are some loopholes I am unaware of.
That's one thing about christians my friend. We're all made for a purpose. Some are meant to help a few along the way and some are meant to give up their life and dedicate to others. I try my best to make sure I have to do what I have to do to live the christian way in everything that I do. That in itself is a hard task. As I meet people along the way that I feel need a push here and there, I give them advice, support, etc. If there are fallen christians that lose their way, I do the same for them. I don't go out of my way to look for troubled individuals. That's how God works. He puts people in our path so that we can help them.
QuoteI don't do much evil. I do some good. I could do a shitload more. Like most people. What does that make us?
That makes you God's children. God loves everyone. Even those that do evil. Which is why those that gossip about the ones that are not saved or the ones that don't know God, aren't being Christian in their ways!!! I don't know how much more clear I can be about this: CHRISTIANS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO JUDGE PEOPLE. THIS IS WHAT GOD DOES. CHRISTIANS ONLY HELP THOSE THAT WANT HELP.
No one is more forgiving than God is. If you ask forgiveness for your sins, regardless of what they are and regardless of how great or how small the sin is, you are forgiven. Just as long as you stay on track and do your personal best to do what God wants you to do. Get this out of your head: Christians are not made out of one mold. Some christians do more great than others. Some are still clinging on to their bad habits and what not.
So to those Christians that Judge others and gossip about others that are not saved or that do not know God: SHUT YOUR PIE HOLE! Clean your own backyard first before you judge others! If you're backyard is spic and span, then by all means have at it. However, no one is pure except for our lord and savior, Jesus Christ!
What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?
Christians judge others, gossip,etc. NO one is perfect. This is why God is so amazing--He continues to love us despite our imperfections.
However, sin is all the same in God's eyes; the Christian who gossips is the same as the Christian who lies.
I believe I can continue to love others, and still disagree ( others may not believe that). I can continue to love people and stand up against things that are wrong in this world. I don't believe God wants Christians to just sit back, and NOT stand up against evil in this world.
Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...
However, sin is all the same in God's eyes; the Christian who gossips is the same as the Christian who lies.
I believe I can continue to love others, and still disagree ( others may not believe that
). I can continue to love people and stand up against things that are wrong in this world. I don't believe God wants Christians to just sit back, and NOT stand up against evil in this world.Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...
SuperKat 0
QuoteChristians judge others, gossip,etc. NO one is perfect. This is why God is so amazing--He continues to love us despite our imperfections.
Yes, I know that and I understand that but if you're going to set an example you should try your darndest not to gossip. We're human, we're all in control of what comes out of our mouths. There's just no good reason to gossip. I can't even think of a good reason why christians should gossip about others. Christians have to understand that God will judge them for gossiping. Like I said, if you're not pure like Jesus, you shouldn't criticize others or judge them. Jesus was the most pure being, if he didn't gossip about others and judge others, how are we better than him? Therefore, if we're not better than him, why are we gossiping and judging others? Does that make sense?
What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?
Yes, you try and not do something. But you can still end up doing something. Paul's scripture "Those things I don't want to do, I keep doing; those things I do want to do, I don't do" is the scripture of my life.
I try and stay away from gossip, but yes, sometimes I get caught up in it. I am not proud of that, but yes, I will admit my weaknesses. ( I used to be a WHOLE lot worse)
How does showing someone what the Bible says go into gossip/judging others?
Just because I have shown someone a scripture about what Jesus says about heaven, doesn't mean I am judging people; I am merely pointing them to what scripture says.
Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...
I try and stay away from gossip, but yes, sometimes I get caught up in it. I am not proud of that, but yes, I will admit my weaknesses. ( I used to be a WHOLE lot worse)
How does showing someone what the Bible says go into gossip/judging others?
Just because I have shown someone a scripture about what Jesus says about heaven, doesn't mean I am judging people; I am merely pointing them to what scripture says.
Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...
Andy9o8 0
QuoteQuoteI never fail to be amazed at the arrogance of people who preach that only those who share their particular theology will go to Heaven. Born-again Christians aren't the only ones in the world who do that, but boy, they sure do it
So you're saying Jesus is arrogant then?
Sighhh...
No.
I'm saying that devout born-again Christians who insist that only devout born-again Christians get to Heaven, while the rest of humanity does not, are being arrogant.
SuperKat 0
QuoteI'm saying that the belief of devout born-again Christians that only devout born-again Christians get to Heaven, while the rest of humanity does not, is an arrogant belief.
That's what you're saying. I didn't say that. The bible didn't say that. Those are your words. Where did you hear that Christians believe that they're going to heaven and others are not? State your valid and reliable source, please.
What's this about devout born-again christians? There is no such thing. Like I said, we're all human and we all make mistakes, knowingly or not.
What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?
SuperKat 0
I'm not arguing with you about scriptures. I understand that sometimes we lose focus on what we should do and what we shouldn't do. I'm just saying that we're human. We control everything that we do and say. Therefore, being a christian, we should think twice and reassess what we are going to say and debate about. WWJD (What Would Jesus DO?) Would Jesus Gossip? No. Would Jesus judge others? No. We're not better than Jesus. Why are we trying to justify our faults. People make mistakes but as Christians, we should do our 1000% best not to gossip. Prayer is the way to help people that need help, not gossip.QuoteYes, you try and not do something. But you can still end up doing something.
What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?
>A christian cannot boast about being saved and know that they will
> go to heaven and mock others, judge others or criticize others if
>they're not saved.
A great many do. You can claim they are not real Christians - but that comes perilously close to judging them, does it not?
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