OK, I have decided to become a Christian...

[MC208B 0]

have you been in combat? Pretty common way of thinking then. Of couse, most of the time when the shit is over people tend to forget about God again (I did then).

[Zenister 0]

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have you been in combat? Pretty common way of thinking then. Of couse, most of the time when the shit is over people tend to forget about God again (I did then).

yes, and no..

because you returned to your core belief does not mean everyone returns to your core belief..

i've been 'near death' several times.. i'm not afraid of it, and while I'm not in any hurry, I am looking forward to it, in the same way i look forward to seeing what is on the other side of any mountain..

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Zenister 0]

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are you implying us Christians haven't searched for the right answers? If you do not know me, or someone else, and our life history, please don't pretend you do and try to base your opinion on that.

So then, care to engage in a detailed discussion of the tenets of Islam? Buddhism? Shinto? Hinduism? Judaism? (not to mention all the 'dead religions') Ever, been to any of their houses of worship? religious ceremonies? participated in their rituals? studied their belief at all?

when you have actually experienced a bit more of humanity's sum total perception of God and Divinity you'll have a real basis for whatever belief you chose.... but right now you are the child that knows they like apple pie...and nothing more...

'born-agains' are really more annoying than anyone else, as they generally have only the slightest hint of the depth of world religion (or more importantly Mankind's experience with Divinity) but are completely ready to claim, and claim loudly Sole Truth and Knowledge even in the face of their own ignorance...

break your vase.....

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[billvon 2,400]

>but right now you are the child that knows they like apple pie...and nothing more...

Or like someone who has tried a lot of things and decided they like apple pie. There is no one right answer that works for everyone.

[windcatcher 0]

I have not studied much of other religions other than Christianity...however, lately I have been more imclined to do so, in order to understand them.
Why would I need to go out searching for something else, when I have found truth? "Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." John 8:32

There have been times when I have tried to walk away from God, trying to live without Him in my life. However, that never worked...I have never been so satisfied with my life, as when I am trying to be close to God.

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'born-agains' are really more annoying than anyone else, as they generally have only the slightest hint of the depth of world religion...

Clearly I can see we bother you. If I happen to annoy you or upset you because of my belief in Jesus Christ, that's great! That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.2 Corinthians 12:10


p.s. Would it bother you if I studied all the world's religions and STILL claimed Jesus, as scripture calls him, the Way, the Truth, and the Life? I am willing to bet it would.

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[Dolph 0]

It would bother me Windcatcher. By then I'd be 2033 years old, trying to get the NanoBots(tm) to cooperate to get me to the nearest brothel.

What bothers both me and I gather Zenister is that you haven't even scratched the surface of accumulated human knowledge on the divine. Most likely your religious choice has been hugely influenced by your immediate family and environment.

What Dawkins would call a mind meme.

[Shotgun 1]

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I'll bet that most of the atheists here when faced with a situation that is going to maybe result in their death will be thinking something like "oh God no!"

I can't speak for other atheists, but I can say that the only time I have been faced with such a situation, no type of god entered my mind. My thoughts were only on my family and closest friends.

[freethefly 6]

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I certainly did when I was 18 in DaNang and one night a shitload of 122MM rockets rained down

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my family quit going to church when I was 12, that night in 72.

12 years old in 72? and you were in DaNang when 18 in 1978? Am I missing something here? I joined the Navy in 1979 when I was 19 (I take it we are about the same age) and as far as I know we were not fighting the VC in the late 70's and certianly not in DaNang. If I am wrong fill me in.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[JackC 0]

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I'll bet that most of the atheists here when faced with a situation that is going to maybe result in their death will be thinking something like "oh God no!"

I can't speak for other atheists, but I can say that the only time I have been faced with such a situation, no type of god entered my mind. My thoughts were only on my family and closest friends.

The few times I thought I was going to cop it, I think my exact words were "oh fuck". I can guarantee you I was not thinking about sex. For this atheist in situations like that, the word god would be interchangeable with the word fuck or the word fruitbat and carry roughly the same meaning.

[MC208B 0]

you should be a mathmetics major, dork.

I was 18 in 72.

Family quit church when I was 12.

Hope you can figure that all out

[SuperKat 0]

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Judgment is exactly what we should tell non-believers because that is exactly what Jesus did and it is the most important thing they’re likely to hear. If you saw someone barreling down the road towards a bridge that was out, would you not try and warn them? I would. The problem is most do not know that they are on that path. If one is sick and everyone around them is also sick, you’re not likely to know that you’re sick. That’s where the law comes in. They’re not likely to want a cure until shown the symptoms of being sick in the first place. Paul said he didn’t know he’d broken the law until it was shown to him. Just telling people about love is very watered down and is a big reason for so many false conversions or people falling away from the faith.

An article from the purpose driven life website: http://www.purposedrivenlife.com/devarchive.aspx?ARCHIVEID=1318

Here's the text version:

Friend or Foe?
By John Fischer

Bob is a regular devotional reader who writes me frequently. What makes him unique is that he is a Christian who is attending classes at a Buddhist temple. Now some Christians might find this impossible to do, but it really depends on your worldview.


A person with a worldview that believes that Christians are right and everyone else is wrong would not be able to understand how a person could do this, or why one would even want to. A person with a worldview that believes that all truth is embodied in Christ Jesus, but not exclusively held by Him, might see this differently. God has not locked up His truth inside the church where no one else can get it.


Theologians call it common grace – that part of truth and beauty that God shares with everyone, whatever their faith or lack of it. In reality, it’s the only way we can explain the world the way it is. Christians are not the only good people on the earth. Indeed there are many good people in the world who are not Christians, as well as Christians who are not very good.


Bob wrote recently: “One of my classmates went on a tirade when he first learned that I am a Christian. We are now friends. He is still a Buddhist and I am still a Christian, but he says gentler things about Christians now. I can't help saying ‘gentle things’ about Buddhists. It's something that many Christians need to learn. I guess our North American society often isn't very gentle.”


Now you can see a reason for this. Bob is finding among his Buddhist friends, Christian traits that are culturally lacking in our western society. And it also looks like Bob has been an influence on at least one of his Buddhist friends who looks at Christianity differently now because of him.


Am I suggesting that we all become Buddhists? Of course not. But I am suggesting we could be more open to truth outside of only what we can control. We might be able to share Christ with more people if we thought differently about this. One way to think about it would be this: The world is not wrong as much as it is lost.


It’s a mindset that colors how we treat people. People we think are wrong need to be set straight; people we think are lost need to be found and brought home. If you were not a Christian, whom would you rather have as a friend, someone out to set you straight, or someone out to find you and bring you home?


“Today salvation has come to this house… For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost.” Luke 19:10

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[SuperKat 0]

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Christianity is a religion among many others. I'm not going to engage in a debate over A relationship with Christ through ones heart. Much too wordy for me.

Just an article about religion and spirituality:

http://www.purposedrivenlife.com/devarchive.aspx?ARCHIVEID=1370

More On Religion and Spirituality
By John Fischer

When you give a gift to someone in need, don't shout about it as the hypocrites do--blowing trumpets in the synagogues and streets to call attention to their acts of charity! I assure you, they have received all the reward they will ever get. (Matthew 6:2 NLT)


I don't know how many of these sayings are floating around out there, but I may have uncovered something significant. Earlier this week I quoted one of our readers as saying that a religious person sits in church thinking about fishing while a spiritual person goes fishing thinking about God. (Not at all meaning to imply that the spiritual person is fishing in place of going to church, by the way. The point is simply that spiritual people worship God with a heart that permeates everything they do, while religious people may look holy, but not have their heart in it.)


Now someone has sent me this: “A religious person is trying to avoid hell; a spiritual person has already been there.”


Religion is the nemesis of Christianity, and these types of contrasts point that out. Religious people are stuck in a religious points system that keeps track of everything. They are actually pretty confident that hell can be avoided based on their own point tally. By contrast, keeping track is the last thing spiritual people want to do, because their track record condemns them. They believe that they deserve hell and get heaven by God's grace. Spiritual people are constantly pinching themselves because they can't believe their good fortune. The last thing they want to do is tally up points, because that will only confirm what they already know: they don't have enough. Never will.


I think I'll try my own hand at this:

Religion is a system; spirituality is a state of being, made possible by a relationship. Religion is trying to please God; spirituality is enjoying God. Religion is Martha fussing in the kitchen; spirituality is Mary listening at the feet of Jesus. Religion keeps the score; spirituality keeps the faith.


And yes, spiritual people have been to hell and back, because that is how they came to know God in the first place. They all came to the end of their rope in some way, calling out desperately to God and finding Him there, eager to listen and respond. It's the hellish kinds of experiences that have brought them to realize their need.


No one can be found unless they are lost; no one can be saved unless they are drowning. Spiritual people realize this because they have been rescued. By contrast, “Jesus saves” means nothing to the religious because they have nothing in their determination from which they need to be saved. Religious people have too tight a hold on their own lives to ever let go. Spiritual people let go and find that God is always there to catch them.


Consequently, when spiritual people serve, they do it out of full hearts of gratitude. When religious people serve, they do it for points, and as Jesus said, they already have their reward (Matthew 6:2).


You can see how religion has kept a lot of people from Christianity. It's a shame, because there couldn't be anything farther from the truth of what it means to know God.

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[windcatcher 0]

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What bothers both me and I gather Zenister is that you haven't even scratched the surface of accumulated human knowledge on the divine.

Okay, so it bothers you because Christianity is my chosen religion, and I haven't bothered to see if the other "gods" are legit?
Sorry, I don't need to. If Christ has set me free from sin, and has changed my heart, why would I need to deny Him and try accepting other gods or religions?

Sorry, I am not ever going to deny Christ.
Have YOU ever tried Christianity? Don't knock it till you try it ( and I am not talking about the religion, but having a real relationship with God and genuinely trying to live according to His word).

Isn't it a bit ironic, how Christianity is the only religion I've tried...and I am completely at ease with it? I am happy to worship a loving God; I don't need to find peace when I already have it, thank you very much

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accumulated human knowledge on the divine.

what's this? knowledge or speculation?

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[freethefly 6]

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you should be a mathmetics major, dork.

I was 18 in 72.

Family quit church when I was 12.

Hope you can figure that all out

I went back and re-read your post and yes I misinterpeted it. But calling someone a "dork" instead of pointing out the mistake they made? are you sure your not still twelve years old? at least mentally?

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[diablopilot 2]

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Okay, so it bothers you because Christianity is my chosen religion, and I haven't bothered to see if the other "gods" are legit?
Sorry, I don't need to. If Christ has set me free from sin, and has changed my heart, why would I need to deny Him and try accepting other gods or religions?

As usually Christianity promotes close-mindedness, thought control, and encourages bigotry, all while claiming it doesn't.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[billvon 2,400]

>why would I need to deny Him and try accepting other gods or religions?

You can accept or deny anything you want; it's completely up to you. But accepting the religious views of other people as possibly valid/useful is NOT the same as denying your God. I am sure you can have a conversation with a Canadian, and think "hmm, their Question Period is an interesting way to communicate between the executive and Parliament" without being a traitor to the US. (Assuming you live in the US of course.)

>Isn't it a bit ironic, how Christianity is the only religion I've tried...
>and I am completely at ease with it?

Why is that ironic? That's true of 99% of the people out there. People are comfortable with what they are familiar with. Which means that someone who was raised a Hindu may be just as informed as you, just as pious as you, just as religious as you - and be just as comfortable with their religion as you are with yours. And they are just as right to make that decision as you are, even though it's a different one than you made.

>what's this? knowledge or speculation?

Many people consider information about their religion to be "knowledge" and information about other religions to be "speculation." This is something of a limiting worldview.

[SuperKat 0]

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As usually Christianity promotes close-mindedness, thought control, and encourages bigotry, all while claiming it doesn't.

You obviously don't read previous posts. Don't generalize one person's views or a couple of hundred people's views as the whole christian belief. It's a big world out there buddy. There are a few million christians such as myself and such as the person that wrote those two articles that don't match the persona that you described above. So if you're gonna attack someone's statement, attack them personally, and not christianity as a whole. If you guys haven't met christians like me and the author out there in the world, you need to get out more often.

See here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2101378#2101378

and here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2101394#2101394

edit: to my christian brothers and sisters, please don't take this personally. I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm just saying that we need to be more open and understanding of others and believe that there are good people out there in the world that are not saved. They're not wrong, they're just lost and all we can do is pray for them.

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[Dolph 0]

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Okay, so it bothers you because Christianity is my chosen religion, and I haven't bothered to see if the other "gods" are legit?

Quoting out of context and putting words in my mouth, all while formulating a question. Your future Young One, is bright on this forum .

No, I can't speak for Zenister; he does that very well himself. What bother me in general is that organised religion is generally passed won as cultural heritage and one of the consequences is a great lack of interest in studying "the other cults" so to speak. The One True Answer is given by the surroundin environment and most followers are so content with that that they close their eyes to other possibilites. Or frankly reject to see that religon indeed has a tendency to be a result of the environment.

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Sorry, I don't need to. If Christ has set me free from sin, and has changed my heart, why would I need to deny Him and try accepting other gods or religions?

No one needs to do anything wrt. religion. Your faith is perfectly acceptable to me. What I am merely pointing out is the close correlation between faith and environment. This in turn is self propagating and you yourself is a good example of it.

It lends itself to turning a blind eye towards alternatives - and that bothers me a little since knowledge in the end is of extremely high value.

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Have YOU ever tried Christianity? Don't knock it till you try it ( and I am not talking about the religion, but having a real relationship with God and genuinely trying to live according to His word).

I gather I have tried it as much as I have tried Santa Clausism. When I was a kid I believed, because adults told me it was true. When I came to age of reason, my faith in organised religion started to fade. But you cannot shift the onus of proof here; I make no claims - I merely point to sources
To answer your last question: if enganged with a person of faith, I query them about it - sometimes with questions that can be intrusive if you're not all Zen.

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accumulated human knowledge on the divine.

what's this? knowledge or speculation?

I do hope you see the incongruity between the expected and the occured in that statement :).

[Amazon 7]

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Okay, so it bothers you because Christianity is my chosen religion, and I haven't bothered to see if the other "gods" are legit?

Its not a matter of seeing if the other gods are legit, its a matter of understanding what other people believe in this world. It goes to enlighten you to the vast differences.. and many similarities between human spirituality. Does it make me believe any differently, NO. But I can better understand my fellow human beings and why they think ( and ACT) the way that they do.

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[freethefly 6]

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I'm just saying that we need to be more open and understanding of others and believe that there are good people out there in the world that are not saved. They're not wrong, they're just lost and all we can do is pray for them.

This is exactly why us non-christians shake our heads in disbelief. Christians saying that us who are not christians are "lost" and that they will pray for us. No need to pray for me, I am NOT lost. I do not believe in christianity therefore the concept of being "saved" just seems to be a pipedream that one is going to bask in gods glowing light for all of eternity.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[diablopilot 2]

Look at the history of Christianity man. It has been used to manipulate, coerce, and enslave people for millenia. The church(s) have strayed so far from the intent of the "word of god" twisted it out of recognition.

The only redeeming feature of organized christianity any longer might be the occasional brilliant and moral individual such as JPII.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[windcatcher 0]

Yes, I will agree with you. I can study other religions...and so desire to. I wish people would read my post that I said I am interested in learning about other religions, however, as of now I am not familiar with all the ins and outs of every single religion.
Just because I believe the Bible is real, doesn't mean I have to accept other religions and ask myself if they could work for me. I found what works, so why do I need to abandon my faith? I have peace with what I believe.

And let me reiterate again, I want to study other religions and plan to do so in the future.

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[SuperKat 0]

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This is exactly why us non-christians shake our heads in disbelief. Christians saying that us who are not christians are "lost" and that they will pray for us. No need to pray for me, I am NOT lost. I do not believe in christianity therefore the concept of being "saved" just seems to be a pipedream that one is going to bask in gods glowing light for all of eternity.

Dude, take it easy. Take a deep breath. Look at how many times aetheist or agnostics say that Christians foolish to believe what they believe. Stick to your beliefs and we'lls stick to ours. It's a big world out there. There's plenty of room for everyone. If that's your belief about christians until you pass on, so be it. It is what it is.

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[Shotgun 1]

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They're not wrong, they're just lost.....

This is the sort of statement that tends to get your religion labeled as arrogant.

[windcatcher 0]

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Look at the history of Christianity man. It has been used to manipulate, coerce, and enslave people for millenia. The church(s) have strayed so far from the intent of the "word of god" twisted it out of recognition.

Why do people expect Christians to act perfect? Why do people point out when a Christian messes up?

Besides, how do you know the men and women were real followers of Christ? There's a scripture I read a week ago, I think it's in John, basically saying where Jesus said people will kill others, claiming they are doing God's will...yet Jesus goes on to say they are "not of the Father." ( any Christian know where specifically this scripture is? )

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...