MattM 0 #26 February 14, 2006 Quote**sigh** http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm And I'm sure the guys over at snopes are experts in large aircraft crashes as well... please. If snopes posted the earth was flat would you believe that too? Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #27 February 14, 2006 No, some of us actually searched and found similar information to that referenced on the Snopes site. If you're so sure the website is wrong, debunk it - what's your EVIDENCE? An "Appeal to authority" defense isn't going to convince.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,145 #28 February 14, 2006 QuoteIf you're so sure the website is wrong, debunk it - what's your EVIDENCE? Uhmm, that was the original question with regards to the conspiracy theory. To debunk it a snopes website, without any sources other than newsprint, is posted. When that is questioned your answer is, well if you don't agree with it debunk it. That would just bring the loop back to the first post. That one contained just as much evidence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattM 0 #29 February 14, 2006 QuoteNo, some of us actually searched and found similar information to that referenced on the Snopes site. I did search and found similar information that was referenced to in the video as well... so what? Quote If you're so sure the website is wrong, debunk it - what's your EVIDENCE? An "Appeal to authority" defense isn't going to convince. If you're using the snopes page as your EVIDENCE then I am using the video, and all its mentioned websites and references as mine. I agree to disagreee with you since neither one of us was there and seen it happen. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
avenfoto 0 #30 February 14, 2006 well noones really offered any type of couterpoints (gmaster excepted), just made fun of me or attacked my assumed living conditions, attempted to compare it to a totally different event..you know, standard admiinstration rhetoric... ( i obviously hate america...) so with that, i leave you all w/a ponderance... http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/license.html dont worry, just some liberal blatherings, it wont hurt... you probably wont even see the correlations.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #31 February 14, 2006 Quote( i obviously hate america...) Do you really?If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dan_iv 0 #32 February 14, 2006 http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/news/gra/gpentagon/frame.htm http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/09/10/36235.html http://urbanlegends.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://paulboutin.weblogger.com/2002/03/14 http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/cmh/simulation/phase1/ http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/5/29/71547.shtml http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #33 February 14, 2006 Making the presumption that the video link in the first post is, in fact, Meyssan's site... Here's some debunks for you... Eyewitness reports of the Pentagon strike How about the fact that the black boxes were found at the Pentagon? Or, the fact that the remains of the passengers were positively identified? Your turn - I'll check back in tomorrow to see what you've got.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #34 February 14, 2006 QuoteIn all honesty, the snopes article is just as bad. It doesn't offer anything to back up their side of the story, other than some newspaper articles. The picture of the airplane part isn't good enough? Or of the massive damage to the Pentagon? That should pretty much end this ridiculous notion that there was no jet, a claim that is rather insulting to those who died. Those who don't want to believe won't. Nature of the conspiracy theorist - reject all counter evidence and focus on anything 'odd' as proof. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
avenfoto 0 #35 February 14, 2006 heres something odd, for those who believe that a self inflicted strike, to drum up support for a war, could never happen... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #36 February 14, 2006 oh, it's certainly been done in the past. Why look at Cuba when you have a real fake attack used by LBJ a couple years later to kick off Vietnam in earnest? But this ignores the reality that al Queda exists, so it's really not worth too much thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
avenfoto 0 #37 February 14, 2006 no, not really...i do however hate how the current administration has run it into the greound, ruined our worldwide reputation, killed thousands in my name,run up a record deficit, and how most people are either blind to it all, or flat out dont care... and that my friend, is cause for alarm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,149 #38 February 14, 2006 Here's the last time this topic was discussed (I think). The thread is only a couple of pages long, so it's not too painful. There's some good information in it. Just because I don't understand something completely doesn't mean it's not real, or that God did it, or that the space aliens did it. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #39 February 14, 2006 on this point in particular I have to agree with avenfoto. Some conspiracy theorists are highly intelligent. I made the mistake of blanketing all conspiracy theorists under one assumption. I have to agree with you. Some are quite intelligent. My bad. In my opinion, anyone using the Man, Evil corporations, ect. . .missed a huge point sometime in their life and don't realize that The Man is really comprised of many people who have their own lives to worry about than one particular person. I've come to believe that conspiracy theories are a form of fantasy. Science fiction, Fantasy, Conspiracy. All provide a strong Want. Except Conspiracy provides a negative entertainment._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #40 February 14, 2006 The biggest credibility problem with stuff like this is that it has mostly the same followers as Planet X, astrology, crop circles, UFO's, mediums & mindreaders, pyramid power, homeopathy, Noah's Ark, Santa Claus, the Illuminati, the harmonic concordance of planetary alignments, and on and on ad nauseum. Well OK, Santa is for real. But the rest is bad affiliation if you want someone to take you seriously." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #41 February 14, 2006 QuoteI firmly believe that this is nothing but a bunch of conspiracy bullshit. Just this weekend I had an anti-government conspiracy guy try to tell me that the government is beaming mind controlling waves at us. He went on to say that the government also controls the weather and clouds to control the the commodity of water. Then he even got more wierded out by telling me that Walmart is a part of the governments conspiracy. Walmart plays subliminal messages in their stores so we will buy the products the government wants us to buy. Come ON!!! Get a fucking life!!!!! Well, that's all for now. I have to go to Walmart to buy something. Not sure what I need to buy though. You need to buy one of everything. That's right, one of everything they sell - in the whole damn place, except for maybe the femine hygiene products, and that crappy brand of generic cheetos they sell. Can't stand those. Then have everything delivered to my house. Then go back to the store and listen for the next message." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #42 February 14, 2006 Quotesounds about right to me.... many of the facts presented i brought up 5years ago it saddens me to think of the current state of affairs, and how some are so blind to it all.... we are sheep and it may already be too late. whats next? nuclear war? who are the terrorists here.? we can only walk on the other peoples of the world for so long , without repercussion one day, it will all blow up in our face, and those responsible, will already be gone.. it soothes me however, knowing that there is a special seat in hell for mr.bush, and everyone gets what coming to them in the end... Make up your mind. Was it the frustrated masses of the world giving us what we deserve for raping their culture and pillaging their resources (or is it pillaging their culture and raping their resources?), or . . . Was it our own government bringing down the citadel of their own financial largese in order to . . . you lost me. Either way, if you are gonna choose a lunatic fringe conspiracy, please stick with it." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #43 February 14, 2006 QuoteHave you ever noticed how when someone floats a conspiracy theory, they all mention "sheep" regarding people who won't accept it?? WTF??? why sheep??? Do the conspiracy theorists have some sort of conspiracy against sheep, or what?? Because sheep are easily seduced. Not that there's anything wrong with that." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #44 February 14, 2006 QuoteQuoteso let me get this straight.... (this is addressed to those who have already written this off as "total bullshit" or have assumed im "in a rental apartment, watching tv") video aside... (again i raised the quesitons 4 years ago..) you belive that a fucking jetliner can vaporize? as in totally disappear... because that was the official explanation from our government... Yes, an Airplane hitting the Pentagon at over 500mph can vaporize. This has been debated and debunked so many times it's sad that some still perpetuate this myth. You can't win this one based on evidence because conspiracy buffs simply counter that the evidence is a cover-up. Crop circles are a great example. The people making them, and many of their copy-cats have been caught. They confessed. They did demos to show how they did them. It's all out in the open for any person with functioning frontal lobes to see. And yet the true believers still believe. And the experts they parade out to support their claims. YOWZA! Good example was a show I watched with my kids on Yeti, Bigfoot, etc. The believers expert is some guy sitting in a really dark office with some sort of dungeons and dragons decorative motif. He's wearing a purple velvet cape and some sort of Satan's cross around his neck. He's as much a nutcase as the bigfoot in the film is a man in a gorilla suit. An awful lot of people are gullible by design. A great read to understand this phenomena is Shermer's Why People Believe Weird Things." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #45 February 14, 2006 QuoteQuoteIn all honesty, the snopes article is just as bad. It doesn't offer anything to back up their side of the story, other than some newspaper articles. The picture of the airplane part isn't good enough? Or of the massive damage to the Pentagon? That should pretty much end this ridiculous notion that there was no jet, a claim that is rather insulting to those who died. Those who don't want to believe won't. Nature of the conspiracy theorist - reject all counter evidence and focus on anything 'odd' as proof. I guess you didn't watch the whole video, there was some aspect about the images around the pentagon crash that are not just odd but totaly unexplainable.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #46 February 14, 2006 Quoteand they get up and go to work, just like theyre told, every day, right on time, dont question anything just do your job and shut you mouth. i like how you equate ones current residence w/ amount of knowledge Actually, I wasn't equating residence with knowledge. I was wondering what's wrong with being a sheep. Sheepdom isn't so bad. It's where everyone has to start at before they move up. Everyone has to shut up, sit back and observe in the beginning. It's how it works. Try keeping a job by calling your bosses a bunch of blowhard no-common-sense-having idiots. Sooner or later, you move up, unless your personal devices prevent you, and you become the shepherd. You institute change. You worked for it , it's yours. You can't become a shepherd in an apartment protecting all from evil of the Man. Only Nancy Drew and superman can. But the CIA told him to go away. I guess the bullet point of this discussion is: Sheepdom may be a transistion stage in many lives. also, most Small Business Owners live in the same neighborhood. They are far from Sheep._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #47 February 14, 2006 Quoteoh, it's certainly been done in the past. Why look at Cuba when you have a real fake attack used by LBJ a couple years later to kick off Vietnam in earnest? But this ignores the reality that al Queda exists, so it's really not worth too much thought. So does ETA and the IRA but thats hardly proof they did it either.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #48 February 14, 2006 nope, didn't watch any of this particular video. Got work to do, and watching that looks very much unlike work. I've seen other variants of this same one, and I've seen enough bullshit propoganda in Berkeley to not get too excited about this particular one. Fails the plausibility test. We know jets crashed into the WTC, so there's nothing gained by faking a crash into the Pentagon. But since the best these nutfucks could do with NYC is claim the jets were remote controlled, the focus is on the Pentagon instead. The only one that could have a different real story is the one in PA. As I said in the prior wankfest, there was certainly motivation to shoot that one down, and then to make out the passengers as heros. Still has a lot of evidence to the contrary to make it far fetched, but the motivation and the means are there. Yet that one gets talked about a lot less. I suspect these people know they're even more likely to get their ass kicked for saying it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #49 February 14, 2006 QuoteQuotedescribe sheep as having a house in the suburbs and have 9 to 5 jobs and they get up and go to work, just like theyre told, every day, right on time, dont question anything just do your job and shut you mouth. i like how you equate ones current residence w/ amount of knowledge QuoteThe average Conspiracy Buff tend to have a below average intelligence and rarely have any higher form of education yeah. like noam chomsky.... mit professor, total whacko right? this shit fucking disgusts me. people who are so goddam colsed minded disgust me... sometimes this whole fucking country disgusts me.... people say bush is dumb... they are wrong... I don't get the reference to Chomsky. The guy is a genius. People may not agree with his politic leanings, but he is dead right on in his political analysis. And yes, geniuses can do that (have a personal opinion AND be stone cold objective in their analysis). In fact, I would say if you only had the time to read one book on the topic, it should be Power and Terror. It is the most matter of fact, cold hard look at how nations treat each other. If you like your cold hard facts mixed with a touch of drama, try Confessions of an Economic Hit Man." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
avenfoto 0 #50 February 14, 2006 Quotealso, most Small Business Owners live in the same neighborhood. They are far from Sheep you got that right.. here is is 3pm on tuesday, and im locking up and going climbing.... baaaaa..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
