lisamariewillbe 1 #76 January 13, 2006 I find it extremely disturbing that he finds robbery/ assault worse a crime then child rape or molestation. I truely hope that this is just so he can play the devils advocate but I doubt it. Im with others on here... I could care less if a proven child molester or child rapist is murdered , as a matter a fact I actually get this warm fuzzie feeling because of all the potential children that will not have to suffer the same fate. Do I condone murder, in some forms yes... is that right? Who cares, its my opinion and it is not forced on others. Im a survivor of a family member who was murdered and it is a hard thing to over come. I dont consider what happened to the priest to be murdered, after all he is a man of god... god was just using another person to carry out his will.Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #77 January 13, 2006 Quote[If there is a need for something to be done (and I understand this as the matter of opinion here - as to whether or not there is a need for someone to carry out capital punishment), the task should be carried out by those professionals designated to do so. Don gets it. Justice (in this case, the position that the child molestor should have been executed) has to be done by the state as a matter of law, not by 'anyone' as a matter of revenge. So for the PJ vs funks debate, I completely disagree with funks (but also completely sympathize with his post) - the other criminal killing the molester did no favor to us by taking over OUR RESPONSIBILITY as society to be the ones to execute the molestor. It allows us to sit in our armchairs and spew nonsense about how civilized we are and then turn over our real duties to individuals that have no business carrying out revenge instead of justice. If the molestor should die, then it must be a cold act of justice that we support as a society. Not an emotional act of revenge by any individual. The killer in prison just showed he is a further threat by killing again outside of society's rules, even if his victim 'deserved' to die, this individual had no right to take on that responsibility himself. By society being unwilling to do it themselves, we just caused another murder this time in complete disdain of the law. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dolph 0 #78 January 13, 2006 QuoteI find it extremely disturbing that he finds robbery/ assault worse a crime then child rape or molestation. I truely hope that this is just so he can play the devils advocate but I doubt it. Im with others on here... I could care less if a proven child molester or child rapist is murdered , as a matter a fact I actually get this warm fuzzie feeling because of all the potential children that will not have to suffer the same fate. Do I condone murder, in some forms yes... is that right? Who cares, its my opinion and it is not forced on others. Im a survivor of a family member who was murdered and it is a hard thing to over come. I dont consider what happened to the priest to be murdered, after all he is a man of god... god was just using another person to carry out his will. Murder by definition is an unlawful killing. State sanctioned killing usually don't fall into the murder category (although it can). I have a bit of an issue with this self justice bit. Combine it with a religious "God's Will" hands off approach and any murder can be justifiable. Just a matter of opinion. This is why we have Big Brother tell us who we can kill, when we can kill them and to some degree how we may kill them. Arbitrary rules on killing lowers productivity, and of course causes a lasting sense of insecurity in the population of course. Can't have that. Taxes means money, which means power. We're not too good at self governance with regards to killing. The effects are clear to see in a post-war country that's been defeated or liberated and where a formal state structure is weak or non existant. Few official figures exist but it is well known such things took place here after WWII (nazi collaborators "disappearing"). It's also evident in Iraq today. I don't condone unsanctioned killing. Heh, I don't like killing in general. It is necessary from time to time. I just can't personally have a leisurely relationship to it. Rehmwa hit the issue right on, fair and square Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
juanesky 0 #79 January 13, 2006 Can that really happen? Billvon won't agree with this!!! Someone killed in prison. Where is the closest hover lane when you need it?"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rebecca 0 #80 January 13, 2006 QuoteQuote So you are sorry he's dead, and seem to regret all deaths at the hands of mankind. However, considering you think there's nothing after death and that prison was a much worse punishment, don't you think he got off easy? death is easy, better, compared to 10 years in prison? I have no idea how to ask you how this makes sense to you- WTF?! Had you read thoroughly, you would know this is not my position, but SkyDekker's. I was asking for clarification. Kelpdiver, this is SkyDekker. SkyDekker, this is Kelpdiver. He has a question for you. Go ahead, Kelp. you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel loquacious?' -- well do you, punk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #81 January 13, 2006 >If the molestor should die, then it must be a cold act of justice that > we support as a society. Not an emotional act of revenge by any > individual. I agree there; good post. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #82 January 13, 2006 Remember Jeffrey Dahmer? Dead just months after entering prison. He deserved the beating to death. Way better than sitting in there for years on death row. Saved taxpayers a lot of money."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,123 #83 January 13, 2006 Jeffrey Dahmer was very very mentally ill. In a sick-fuck kind of way. Which is troubling, that a person can be that sick. Anyway, I agree with the Bills, that being murdered in prison is not something we should be glad about; if we think they deserve to die, the government should do it. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #84 January 13, 2006 Do you really believe this stuff you're spewing or are you just using it for debate material? QuoteI hope you don't have kids. Would it be a fair tradeoff to leave your kids to be raised without you, just to save a kid from an act of molestation? (Think about the fact that much molestation is repeat molestation, and realize that you might be leaving your kids for good just to stop an act that had been perpetrated on the kid dozens of times before.) Just because you felt such outrage that you couldn't control? I already have a child. She died of Turner's Syndrome, and I can tell you that I will do what I need to in order to protect an innocent and helpless person. A child is innocent and helpless and deserves to be protected. They do not have the mental nor emotional ability to rationalize what happened to them. My choices and decisions are mine alone, Jeffrey. I do not care if you approve of or like them. Molestation can be repeat or it can be first offense. Doesn't matter. Harm a child, and God help you if I see it because no one else will be able to. QuoteWe are talking about a prison inmate who murdered a man whose crime he did not witness. How many people who have spoken here of the idea that the priest should be murdered would do his murder themselves -- NOT when happening on the molestation in flagrante delicto, but months or years after the fact, once the molester is released from prison? That's what we're talking about. You ought to compare apples to apples. As someone has already stated earlier, whether you like or agree with it, even murderers have their own sense of morals and to harm a child is considered one of the gravest of sins even by a murderer. As far as months/years after the fact, it's something that most of the time one would never need to concern themselves with as the prison system will usually take care of that issue for them. Would I be surprised if months/years after the fact someone killed said priest (or whomever)? Nope...not at all. The emotional scars are ones that take forever to heal - if they are ever fully healed. And you never know what mental/emotional state the individual would be in. You and I can agree to disagree on this subject, Jeffrey. Others have stated my thoughts much more eloquently so I will leave it to them to continue the debate with you.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #85 January 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteI am just as pissed off when a 24-year-old woman is raped and strangled, or a 32-year-old man is robbed and shot, as I am when a kid is molested. I am no where near as pissed off in cases such as these. The victims in those cases can rationalize and perhaps understand what has happened and even if it makes no sense, they can possibly understand why it may have happened. Children do not have that luxury that us adults have. Some people here got some pretty messed up values systems. First we got one who thinks getting killed is better than serving a 10 year sentence, and now you're arguing that it's worse for a kid to get groped than for a woman to get fucked and strangled (which duh, is again death). Death is final, at least for those of us who don't believe in an afterlife. There are experiences worse than death, but not very many. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #86 January 13, 2006 >I hope you don't have kids. Please avoid such personal comments towards other posters here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #87 January 13, 2006 Quote>If the molestor should die, then it must be a cold act of justice that > we support as a society. Not an emotional act of revenge by any > individual. I agree there; good post. And if we can't dispense justice in that way, then I'd move to your side and say we aren't "mature" enough to enact captital punishment. What's funny, is the more I hear from many of the pro-death sentence people on this board, the more I feel that we can't handle it. Only a few really seem to understand the moralities of justice from a societal perspective. The main theme is confusion of restitution and revenge rather for the individual rather than a true feel for 'justice'. (off teh top of my head, credit PeacefulJ even if the delivery is off and 'enthusiastic', credit to pirana too and GTA and BV, many others as well, but not as many as I'd have thought) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #88 January 13, 2006 QuoteJeffrey Dahmer was very very mentally ill. In a sick-fuck kind of way. Which is troubling, that a person can be that sick. Anyway, I agree with the Bills, that being murdered in prison is not something we should be glad about; if we think they deserve to die, the government should do it. Wendy W. God damn, isn't that what I've been fuckin' saying all along?! How come I get lambasted for it? --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #89 January 13, 2006 QuoteMolestation can be repeat or it can be first offense. Doesn't matter. Harm a child, and God help you if I see it because no one else will be able to. Sorry about your loss of your daughter. As I said before, it is perfectly legal for you to intervene with deadly force if you come upon someone in the act of a forcible rape. Have at it! I support killing such a fucker immediately. QuoteAs someone has already stated earlier, whether you like or agree with it, even murderers have their own sense of morals and to harm a child is considered one of the gravest of sins even by a murderer. A murderer claiming to have moral high ground to murder molesters is a hypocrite. His "morals" are void by virtue of being a murderer. You are actually arguing for the right of murderers to make life-or-death judgments. That's fuckin' madness. I suggest that your judgment is clouded by excessive protectionism of children. If you weren't blinded by this need to make sure children are hyper-protected from harm, you'd see that you are arguing a very indefensible position. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #90 January 13, 2006 Quote>I hope you don't have kids. Please avoid such personal comments towards other posters here. Bill, I've been avoiding "personal attack"-type statements with alacrity since being back. I would hope you recognize this fact. That comment was intended to underscore my worry about people who care so much about "children" that they would endanger their own ability to remain present in their children's lives because they need to go out and kill molesters. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #91 January 13, 2006 Perhaps, as ppl are unable to find your real message under the pile of swear-words, gutter language etc. with which you usually decorate your posts? edited to add: reference is made to your post # 88 dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,123 #92 January 13, 2006 Well, I wasn't lambasting you, and Bill agreed with you just above. We differ in that I don't think we should have the death penalty; I posted my "ideal version" early in the thread. I think we waste more time on appeals than it's worth, and give more notoriety. Not to mention that whole can't-bring-them-back thing. Losing 20 years is really really bad. But the collective guilt of losing a life might be worse. Dunno, and I hope I never find out. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #93 January 13, 2006 >That comment was intended to underscore my worry . . . Whatever. If someone told you "I hope you get AIDS" they would be warned as well. Debate the subject, not your opinion of the poster. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #94 January 13, 2006 well so much for fucking standards. Agreed he should be punished... but it isnt as bad as murder in my eyes. Christ what will you do for them? Hang and quarter them? You need to save the severest punishment for the severist crime. Mind you there are always fanatics Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funks 1 #95 January 13, 2006 QuoteYou need to save the severest punishment for the severist crime. Harming a defenseless trusting child is in my book the most severe crime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #96 January 13, 2006 least the child can have a chance of recovery!!!! and live the rest of their life. If youre dead... well thats it mate. The onme shot you get is gone for good. That seems a lot wores surely? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #97 January 13, 2006 >That seems a lot wores surely? Child molestation plays to people's protective instincts; thus it is perceived as much worse than killing to many people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike111 0 #98 January 13, 2006 Very fair point. If only subjectiveness was left out when judging court cases...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #99 January 13, 2006 Quote Perhaps, as ppl are unable to find your real message under the pile of swear-words, gutter language etc. with which you usually decorate your posts? edited to add: reference is made to your post # 88 Ironically, that was not one of my posts in which I was trying to get a thread-related message across. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #100 January 13, 2006 Quoteleast the child can have a chance of recovery!!!! and live the rest of their life. If youre dead... well thats it mate. This is what I agree with. Humans are resilient, and they can bounce back from being abused. They cannot bounce back from being murdered; hence, I believe that murder is a more severe crime against someone than molesting or raping them is. --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
