namgrunt 0 #76 September 6, 2005 young man please take note!!!! LIFE IS NOT FAIR ..59 YEARS,OVERWEIGHT,BALDIND,X-GRUNT LAST MIL. JUMP VIET-NAM(QUAN-TRI) www.dzmemories.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #77 September 6, 2005 Quoteyoung man please take note!!!! LIFE IS NOT FAIR .. Say what?!??!!? FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #78 September 6, 2005 Looting? Those white people were not "looting" - they were "floating food." I seem to recall those pictures. But, it also looks like there are some stories coming out about state and local governments refusing aid until it was too late. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #79 September 6, 2005 Quote young man please take note!!!! LIFE IS NOT FAIR LOL- ya think?. Doesn't it OK though. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #80 September 6, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote Did you see all the city and school busses flooded. The local gov't dropped the ball. It's like pulling low and complaining about a bad spot. I don't remember saying the local government was without blame. Could you be so kind as to link to that particular post of mine? Unless, of course, you are just putting words in my mouth. I've not seen you make any mention of the city or state governments in this thread....the only people you've been blaming is fedgov.... Dude, This is not about blame. This is about hundreds of thousands of American citizens in desperate need. These people are our brothers and sisters and deserved an immediate and massive response. It's the right thing to do. It's the American thing to do. It's the human thing to do. Our govt did not do it. jen----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #81 September 6, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteI have heard a lot of people make excuses why the victims are to blame. Who said that? Derek I also believe, that to an extent, many of them are. If they were just too lazy to figure out something to help themselves, then yes. I do however understand that not *EVERYONE* was just being lazy, I understand that some people just could not get out, and our gov't did fail them. If they could get out and just wanted to wait for the gov't to help them like they always do, screw them. Their own fault. Hundreds of thousands of American citizens are in desperate circumstances. These people are our brothers and sisters ...and you want to stand to the side and assign blame???? I don't know about you, but I kind of miss the days when people would just shout "Fuck all them niggers" At least that sentiment was pure and untarnished by pseudo logic. jen----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #82 September 6, 2005 QuoteOur govt did not do it They are now. You may say, "Too late." The Feds can't do shit, really , unless the states and localities ask them to help. Some reports are indicating that requested help was refused. Unfortunately, I cannot really blame anyone for not getting massive aid in there sooner. When the enite I-10 is washed away, how do you think them local bridges and roads are doing, eh? My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #83 September 6, 2005 >Some reports are indicating that requested help was refused. That goes both ways. FEMA also, in some cases, refused to let local groups assist. Which, I think, is indicative of a lot of confusion rather than anything sinister. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dagny 0 #84 September 6, 2005 QuoteIt is a certain fact that the Army Corps of Engineers blew a portion of the levy which would flood the poorer sections of the city inorder to relieve the stress on the portions of the levy protecting the more wealthy sections. I call BS. Though that has been a long-standing rumor with a ton of unique variations (the city's gonna blow the levees on the westbank to save the city, I'm sure you've heard that one), it's completely unsubstantiated and total heresay. Besides, even if there was going to be a purposeful levee breach, it wouldn't have been the 17th st canal. Besides there is no distinct "wealthy" part of New Orleans. Not enough to divert floodwaters from it and drown the poor...especially considering how incorporated the section 8 and "wealthy" sections are already. Fun theory, and I love a good conspiracy too, but it's just not substantiated.Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic. -Salvador Dali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dagny 0 #85 September 6, 2005 QuoteLooting? Those white people were not "looting" - they were "floating food." I seem to recall those pictures. I'm so annoyed about these pics. First of all, the pics were online only and came from two different sources, so can't really be compared. I know that one came from the AP, but I believe the other came from the AFP or something of that nature. But, if we're just talking about the perception and the color of those people's skin, then I'd like to say that I don't believe the so-called "white" woman who was finding food as opposed to looting was caucasian. She looks as if she could be a light-skinned "black woman" or "latina". And maybe she isn't, but I think the whole race issue being brought into a natural disaster is absolutely ridiculous. Race relations are bad enough in New Orleans without feeding the notion that looting is due compensation for oppression or that assistance didn't come fast enough because NOLA is a poor town or by perpetuating the race divide by exploiting photographs and captions from two independent news sources or making inflammatory accusations and proclamations to media. Seriously, it has to stop.Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic. -Salvador Dali Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #86 September 6, 2005 I am also one who believes that the racial baiting needs to stop. It was merely my remark on the commentary, Dagny. I'm personally fed up with this junk. We had Kayne West say at a benefit that "George Bush doesn't care about black people." We had Wolf Blitzer comment that the people who were victimized were "so poor and so black." Oh, so they are "black" and not people? Pass the Tylenol, Dagny. p.s. maybe you can prescribe me something with a little more kick! My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,149 #87 September 6, 2005 Maybe so, but we also need to be aware of what the pictures look like. Just as we judge other countries based on what we see reported ("those Palestinians were burning American flags and parading joyfully in the streets!!!"), other countries do the same thing. My brother lives in Brazil. He said that the pictures last week showed almost exclusively black people in dire circumstances, with a clusterfuck going on at the national and local levels (e.g. the FEMA director not being aware that there were people in the convention center, and buses not being used to evacuate people). Most of us in the US know that inner-city NO was pretty overwhelmingly black -- a similar story in the Texas Valley would show a lot of hispanics, and in Vermont it would be all white. But those are the images that were there, and, well, my brother's take was "Harry Truman had a sign on his desk saying 'The Buck Stops Here.' What does Bush's sign say?" It was a clusterfuck last week. Those are the images that countries around the world saw. Hopefully this week they'll see pictures of mountains of clothing at the Astrodome (at a couple of local shelters, they're turning clothes away because there is too much to process). We can't live our lives to others' impressions. But it's stupid not to at least be aware of them. We certainly expect the same of them. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #88 September 7, 2005 Quotedid not mess things up for everyone. They failed to use available vehicles at their disposal, failed to call on the national guard, They also failed to agree to federal aid for 24 hours when it was offered. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #89 September 7, 2005 QuoteNow that we have blamed everyone, is everyone happy yep I am happy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #90 September 7, 2005 QuoteThey failed to use available vehicles at their disposal, failed to call on the national guard, They also failed to agree to federal aid for 24 hours when it was offered. Please define "they." There were more than enough fuck ups to go around, at the federal, state and local level. I haven't seen anyone solely blaming the federal government, but I see a lot of people apologizing for their incompetence/neglegence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #91 September 7, 2005 QuoteQuoteThey failed to use available vehicles at their disposal, failed to call on the national guard, They also failed to agree to federal aid for 24 hours when it was offered. Please define "they." There were more than enough fuck ups to go around, at the federal, state and local level. I haven't seen anyone solely blaming the federal government, but I see a lot of people apologizing for their incompetence/neglegence. The "they" mentioned in that post would clearly be the city / state governments... Busses were City / State, Nat'l Guard is State, and requesting federal assistance is State.. Pretty clear to me what he was referring to in this post.. Yes, the feds messed up some in other areas. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #92 September 7, 2005 QuoteThe "they" mentioned in that post would clearly be the city / state governments... Busses were City / State, Nat'l Guard is State, and requesting federal assistance is State.. Pretty clear to me what he was referring to in this post.. Or maybe not. Which state? The citizens of more than one state were failed by their governments. Which of course means many different cities as well. He severely over generalized the group he upon which he was saying screwed up worse than the federal government, practically claiming that it was everybody's fault except the federal government. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #93 September 7, 2005 QuotePlease define "they." city, parish and state Gov'ts The city and the parish and the state are closest and responsible for first response. It's like complaining about the uspa not doing anything about bad spots and a off student status skydiver getting killed for a off landing and finding out the gps was turned off. They (the locals) were there and did nothing. They had a GPS (the busses) but left them off (in the parking lot) If the locals had followed the SIM things would have been different. BTW those that refused to evac and could are no ones fault but their own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #94 September 7, 2005 Quote If the locals had followed the SIM things would have been different. I've just gotta say, I got some strange looks from my roommate when I read this line, cuz I just started laughing.... That's some funny shit. Way to break it down into skydiver language... HA! FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #95 September 7, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteIt strikes me as strange that people seem to think a federal agency can act faster than local agencies...and that the federal agency should bear most of the blame. Until you consider that the 82nd Airborne Division can have people and equipment on the ground anywhere in the world in 18 hours. The 25th Infantry Division can be anywhere in 24 hrs. I see no reason why the federal government should not have been able to get people and equipment on the ground in the gulf region in a similar time frame, considering neither the storm nor the flooding was a surprise. Maybe I'm missing something. Is it really more important to be able to take over a foreign airport on short notice than to respond to a natural disaster on our home soil? I think one thing that you fail to grasp is that we do not have a long and storied history of dropping troops and equipment into 20 feet of water. 've highlighted your mentions of "ground" and "soil." Look at that as a big difference. The US Military is not used to putting boots on lakes or going pier-to-pier or dock-to-dock. Add the element of water - vast and deep water, and things look much, much different from an operational standpoint. That's funny. I see images in my head now of a war room, generals hunkered down over a map decieding what to attack... One General says "I think one thing that you fail to grasp is that we do not have a long and storied history of dropping troops and equipment into 20 feet of water. Must be a dry place. No water or a very, very small likelyhood of water..." Dude delivering the coffee says, "Like a desert?" Yes! A Desert! Iraq here we come! tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #96 September 7, 2005 QuoteI've just gotta say, I got some strange looks from my roommate when I read this line, cuz I just started laughing.... That's some funny shit. Way to break it down into skydiver language... HA! Thanks I'll take down one more level, the skydiver should have looked out the door before exiting (left when told to evac) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #97 September 7, 2005 QuoteI'll take down one more level, the skydiver should have looked out the door before exiting (left when told to evac) I think the point they're raising is: What about the skydiver who didn't own their own rig, couldn't afford to rent one, and the DZ wouldn't provide them with one even though their kit store was full of hundreds of unused rigs and was about to be flooded? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erroll 49 #98 September 7, 2005 QuoteQuoteI'll take down one more level, the skydiver should have looked out the door before exiting (left when told to evac) I think the point they're raising is: What about the skydiver who didn't own their own rig, couldn't afford to rent one, and the DZ wouldn't provide them with one even though their kit store was full of hundreds of unused rigs and was about to be flooded? Isn't the standard reply "Go the next DZ..."? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #99 September 7, 2005 QuoteI think the point they're raising is: What about the skydiver who didn't own their own rig, couldn't afford to rent one, and the DZ wouldn't provide them with one even though their kit store was full of hundreds of unused rigs and was about to be flooded? then is it the uspa's fault? NO it's the dzo and the sta. I would surely get into the loft and borrow one, but i would NOT burn down the loft. And see that it got back to the loft after it was all over. btw I can hot wire a bus in under 2 minutes. no tools needed, just a old piece of wire. IF I was in the area with out wheels I would get out. I would even take some lefties with me, if they would come Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #100 September 7, 2005 QuoteQuoteI think the point they're raising is: What about the skydiver who didn't own their own rig, couldn't afford to rent one, and the DZ wouldn't provide them with one even though their kit store was full of hundreds of unused rigs and was about to be flooded? then is it the uspa's fault? NO it's the dzo and the sta. I would surely get into the loft and borrow one, but i would NOT burn down the loft. And see that it got back to the loft after it was all over. btw I can hot wire a bus in under 2 minutes. no tools needed, just a old piece of wire. IF I was in the area with out wheels I would get out. I would even take some lefties with me, if they would come They wouldn't come - you're not "the government"...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
