How many of you have had a low turn?

[Rafaellimon 0]

I had my first 90 degrees low turn with no big consequences nothing broken just pain and bruises, it is a small place to land so I didn't want to cross in front of the landing pattern so I try to correct at final with low altitude when I tried to brake was to late because of the acceleration of the canopy no air in it you know the rest

[WatchYourStep 0]

I think for this discussion a definition for low turn will need to be made.

"You start off your skydiving career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience up before your bag of luck runs out."

[skybytch 259]

Flat turns are your friend. If you don't know how to do them, find out... before your next jump and start practicing them up high on every jump. If you do know how to do them, practice them up high on every jump.

You want the flat turn to be your immediate reaction if you find yourself in the same position again. They will save your ass.

[kallend 1,643]

What do you mean by "had a low turn"? I've performed turns at low level, but I've never "had" one happen involuntarily, in the sense having an illness, or having bad night's sleep.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[popsjumper 2]

I can vouch for that from first-hand knowledge...you can never tell when that "rock and a hard place" will come about no matter how hard you try to prevent it.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[billvon 2,425]

I "turn low" on pretty much every jump I make. Usually it's a front riser 90 degree turn. Since we have to land north-south at Perris, often I will flare turn in the last few feet of the planeout to face more into the wind.

Low turns in and of themselves are not dangerous. If you don't know how to do them, though, they can be very dangerous indeed (as you discovered.) That's a good reason to learn how to do them.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Can you see the small group of tree in the middle of the attached pictures? I was flying around (90 degrees turn around them)them and had a soft landing.

[Rafaellimon 0]

Thats what I tried to make a flat turn but I don't know if I did it right, first I pull down both toggles really lite and one up to start to turn everything was good until the point I put up the arms again I got instant speed I think I shouldn't had to do that instead starting my brake sequence.
What you guys think?

[billvon 2,425]

>until the point I put up the arms again I got instant speed . . .

Then next time use less opposite brake.

Here's something I wrote about flat and flare turns a while back:

------------------------------------------------------------

1. Flat turn 90 degrees at 50 feet. This is the most important of all the skills. The objective of this manuever is to change your direction 90 degrees losing as little altitude as possible, and come out of the manuever at normal flying speed. Coming out at normal flying speed means you can instantly flare and get a normal landing. If you can do this at 50 feet, and come out of the manuever with normal flying speed at 5 feet, you can flare and land normally.

Every year people die because they decide they simply _have_ to turn at 100 feet and know only one way to do it - pull down a toggle. The parachute dives and they hit the ground at 40mph. To prevent this, not only do you have to know how to flat turn, but you have to practice it enough that it becomes second nature. Then when you do need it, you won't have to think about it.

To pull off this manuever, start by toggle turning the parachute gently. IMMEDIATELY follow that with some opposite toggle. The idea is that you want to flare just a little to counteract the canopy's desire to dive. Continue adding opposite toggle until you've stopped the turn. At this point let both toggles all the way up. If you feel the parachute accelerate after you let go of the toggles (i.e. it feels like you just flared) use less opposite toggle next time. If you feel like the parachute is diving, like you just did a toggle turn, use more opposite toggle next time. Basically you want to start the turn with one toggle, stop it with the other one, and use just enough toggle to keep the wing from diving but not so much that it does a flare.

It should go without saying that this manuever should be practiced up high before you ever try it down low. If and when you do try it out low, start at lesser angles (i.e. try a 15 degree turn first) make sure the pattern is clear and make sure conditions are good (soft ground, good winds.) Work up gradually to a full 90 degree turn. I do think it's important to try at least a gentle flat turn very low; we are horrible judges of exact altitudes when we're at 1000 feet, and it's hard to tell if you've lost 50 feet or 200 in a turn. By trying it out down low, you'll get a better sense of what it can do for you, and you'll have the "sight picture" better set in case you have to use it for real one day.

A variation on this is to go to half brakes and then let one brake up. This gives you a flat turn, but by flaring first you "use up" some of the canopy's energy so you can't turn as effectively. On the plus side the turn happens more slowly. If you are about to hit a tree and want to make a last minute turn, this variation might be the way to go, as it combines a turn and a flare, thus reducing your speed before impact. A version of this is currently taught in the ISP, so it might be a good way to make your first flat turns before transitioning to the less-braked variety.

2. Flare turn at least 45 degrees. This does two things - it gives you another tool in your arsenal to dodge last minute obstacles, and teaches you to fly your canopy all the way through to the landing. The #1 mistake jumpers with new HP canopies make is to "reach out to break their fall" while they're flaring; this of course turns the canopy in the direction they are reaching. Most people decide that this is due to a side gust just as they're landing. I remember one jumper at Brown who, amazingly enough, experienced a side gust seconds before he landed (and always from the right) 40-50 times in a row! Learning to flare turn will help eliminate this problem.

To flare turn, start with a normal flare, then flare _slightly_ more with one toggle. The canopy will turn. Bring the other toggle down to match it, and the canopy will straighten out. It's a dynamic process; rather than put the toggles at a certain position, you have to speed up one toggle for a second, then speed up the other to match it, before you level them and finish the flare. If you balloon upwards, then don't flare as quickly. If you drop to the ground, bring both toggles down more aggressively when they are 'split.' One thing that helps people is to think about where your canopy is rather than what it's doing. Use the toggles to put it off to one side for a moment, then use them to put it back over your head.

This can be hard to practice with a large canopy. I can pull off a 45 degree turn on a Manta, but the flare is over so fast that it's hard to explain what I just did. It's much easier on a canopy loaded around 1:1, so you may want to wait on this one until you get to that loading.

Note that if you combine a flare turn with a flat turn, you can pull off nearly a 180 degree turn at just above 50 feet. Also note that knowing how to do flat and flare turns doesn't mean you can always turn at 50 feet and get away with it - sometimes it's better to accept a downwind landing than make a turn at a dangerously low altitude. But if you do have to turn low (say, you're on course for the electrified fence around the pit bull farm) a flat/flare turn will let you either turn and land normally or turn and minimize the damage caused by landing in a turn.

[el_chester 4]

Did this landing take place in Cuautla? If so, it is worth mentioning that that DZ lies at 4700ft above sea level, and that although the landing area is not small for experienced jumpers, with a full otter's load landing at the same time it can get intimidating for less expereienced jumpers.

I have jumped there more than anywhere else, and I recently used the density altitude / wingload calculator and found out that (without my real knowledge, or anybodys concern - not even the DZO's) when I got back into the sport after not jumping much for over 3 years, I purchased the equivalent of sea level 1.75 wingloading at 200 jumps, thinking I was getting 1.5 (which in itself would still have been high and if I had only known better I would not have chosen that canopy).

Eventually I did a step-back in my canopy progression because I luckily realized before I ever got hurt that I was not advancing in a safe manner.

--
Be careful giving advice. Wise men don't need it, and fools won't heed it.

[berchtoldaj 0]

El Chester, you sound like a very smart person, very wise additions to the conversation.

and i chuckled at your signature, sometimes sad but true.

************
Watch out for planters.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Quote

everything was good until the point I put up the arms again I got instant speed I think I shouldn't had to do that instead starting my brake sequence.

I got some medical steel for that trick already. You have to know if you still have altitude for going back to full flight, because you canopy might surge forward.

[lowie 0]

The only time I had to turn low I needed to avoid someone and I pulled off a flat turn 90 degrees at approx 50ft got to level straight flight by about 10ft off the ground with half brakes on then did a PLF landing rather than risk the dive. Bit of mud on the kit was the only result. I practise this turn nearly evey jump up high but add the surprise element into it and I grabbed too much initial toggle, then corrected suddenly with the other one before it could dive much. Not sure I'd be able to change it much for next time so I keep practicing.

I now also keep a more watchful eye for people wanting to land cross wind in front/to the side of me.

[chanti 0]

My only one was under reserve to avoid telephone lines in a very tight, awkward spot. Cost me my femur

-Chanti-

[Rafaellimon 0]

The posts keep on coming, I hope when I go back to skydive after having that bad landing won't happen again I even had thorns in my but haha! thanx for all your messages.

On the POLL so many skydivers have perform a low turn hope most of them with no injuries.

• Quote

[toolbox 0]

Oh yeah! Can't believe I walked away from it. Hell,I did not even get a limp out of it. Pure luck and a heavily muscled frame probably saved my ass. They were already calling 911 when I stood up. My excuse for bustin off a 180 about 100ft too low is, inexperience and stupidity at that point in my skydiving career.
Remember,you are never too low to hook it, but you may be too low to limp away.

[degarmo 0]

Well put.

WHAT A DIZZY DANCE~SINKIN INTO SWEET UNCERTAINTY

[bch7773 0]

yep.

bounced pretty hard and pretty far. Amazingly nothing was broken but my knees and ankles were hurting pretty bad for the next couple weeks.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[crewkeith 0]

theres the one in my avaitar is that a low turn??
bsbd
keith

The skies are no longer safe

I'm back

[audwiz 0]

Hmmm- not so lucky
Canopy collapse @ 40 ft. turned on reinflation to avoid parked mercs & bmw's -spiral fractured femur even though I plf''d

J

<<<< >>>>

[popsjumper 2]

Oh hell...Greenies! Please don't punish me too badly for this...a little lightheartedness could be injected here and I just couldn't resist...

I had a low turn but I lost it and I think somebody else found it by accident.


Ok I feel better now.

I'll say that please, please, please, learn turns, practice all of them up high to know what each type does and how you canopy is going to react to each input. Do this BEFORE you come to need it at low altitude - for sure you WILL need it someday.

Bill's post above is a good place to start.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[grue 1]

Never one that ended poorly, but I had one that scared the shit out of me. I was just learning to swoop and threw down a fairly solid 90-to-double fronts. Just as I was planing out, some little kid who was watching ran out in front of me. I kinda carved away from her at a hard angle and set it down safely. My hands were shaking BADLY for a bit after that. I do, however, wish I had video

cavete terrae.