kelpdiver 2 #26 August 19, 2005 Quote Why don't we see the Minnesota Swedes, or the Chicago Polacks then? Neither have a history of kicking ass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #27 August 19, 2005 QuotePerhaps I should run through the list of mascots in my home town - the Armstrong Apaches, the Williams Warriors, the Vines Vikings... The list goes on and on and on...you get the picture. I think that if gross terms are used (we all know racial slurs, I won't list any here), that's a problem, but honestly, these names are chosen in admiration most of the time. Why the Armstrong Apaches? Because the Apaches were fierce warriors, and when the football team gets out on the field, they want people to think they'll play fiercely. It's more of an homage than anything. But it's funny how anything can be spun to be racial discrimination these days. So, will the Carpenter Cowboys end up in fights to the death when they play the Armstrong Apaches? Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #28 August 19, 2005 QuoteIf you've ever seen "Chief Illiniwek" prancing around you'd wonder what on Earth these folks are thinking of if they think it honors any heritage. In Injun-talk, that must mean: "Cheif leaps high". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enrique 0 #29 August 19, 2005 QuoteHail to the Washington Redskins! If things keep going in the direction they are now, pretty soon it will have to be the Washington Native-Americans! Give me an N, give me an A, give me a T.... (I'm tired already ) New Orleans "Saints" would be in trouble because it makes reference to a particular religious group. Maybe the New Orleans "Nice Guys" will be politically correct. Oh, and the San Diego "Padres"! And the Oakland Raiders.... racial profiling! SDSU Aztecs!!!! .... crazy..... plain crazy.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gravitysucks 0 #30 August 19, 2005 Quote The world must be close to ending. Quote ...We're on the eve of destruction - Barry MacGuire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dbattman 0 #31 August 20, 2005 Well, that depends. Mascots and team names, IMHO, are often picked for characteristics (real or figurative) that we would like to see 'transfered' or associated with the team. Raiders, Bears, Bengals, Pirates, Buffalo, Giants, Vikings, Mariners- all strong, dominant themes that fans like seeing transfered to their sports teams. When I was in University from '91-95 the school team was the Miami Redskins. For those that don't know, Miami Universtiy is in Oxford, OH and is named for the Miami Tribe that originaly inhabited that area. In fact, a wealthy individual purchased two large parcels of land in what would become Florida and named one after his home city of Dayton (Daytona) and the other after his geographic region the Miami Valley (Miami). There's a long history of how the team became the Redskins starting with early references to Big Red and such, but when it was adopted for the athletic department the University continued their long tradition of working with the Tribe to design the dress, imagery and logos (none of which were extreme characitures like the Cleveland Indians). The mascot wore traditional ceremonial dress, spent several weeks during the summer living with the Tribe absorbing the culture and practicing the dances for the games and I never, ever, saw him doing a big jumping split during a game. Any member of the Miami Tribe is admitted to the University free of charge which had been going on for a long time. So, what about 'Redskin'? When the European settlers were pushing West (invading Indian lands, admittedly) and the Indians would attack they wore red war paint, so the settlers called them 'redskins'. Again, a dominant aggressive theme that people associate with a bunch of people battling it out on the gridiron, or the ice, or the diamond. Racist? I wouldn't go nearly that far but then again we live in this new 'ultra-sensative' world where you can be charged with assault for wearing too much cologne because some people might have strong allergies or sensitivities to odors (it's happened in Canada). As far as the Miami sports team, the new name is the 'Redhawks' with their mascot 'Swoop.' Disgusting. If they had to bow to PC they should have changed it to the 'Miami Tribe' and kept the strong ties to the indigineous Miami Indians. I can see where some people would be upset with the logos of Indians with oversized noses, or comical characitures but just blanket- targeting anything with an ethnic orient is going overboard. Oh, and a group of Colorado students, trying to call attention to this issue with the old 'reverse psycology' of "how about the 'Cleveland Paleskins'? How would you like that!?" did have an intramural team named the 'Fighting Whities.' Their idea backfired when they were swamped with phone calls and emails by white folks wanting to know how they could buy a T-shirt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sunman 0 #32 August 20, 2005 Quote"The economical Pontiac Jew." Or, "Our patented Blonde (tm) Suspension - its light, airy and makes for a mighty good ride." Or maybe, "The fashionable Chevrolet Gay." As a gay, blonde Jew, I am deeply offended by your comments. Really, though, I think for the most part, using a people's nationality to market a product is harmless... It's not really derogatory because you would only adopt the name if there was a positive quality about it that you wanted to emulate. The exception is when the name could be seen as a racial slur, such as "Redskins". I believe that is very wrong and highly offensive to many. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dbattman 0 #33 August 20, 2005 Careful. don't confuse 'racial' with 'racist.' 'Racial' is refering to racial characteristics. 'Racist' refers to the belief that one race is superior or inferior to another. Native Americans were proud. They had dignity, they were resourceful, and they were charitable by teaching newcomers to the Western world how to survive. And when they got pissed off with the same newcomers pushing into their land they kicked ass too, wearing red war paint. Hmmmm, 'Redskins' sounds like a pretty pround, strong, domineering, ass-kicking name for a football team to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steveorino 7 #34 March 14, 2007 No more illiniwek http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/basketball/ncaa/03/13/chief.illiniwek.ap/index.html steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #35 March 14, 2007 Not to mention teams with the name "Devils" in them (Red Devils, Blue Devils, etc.). Some conservative Christian groups are out to ban those, too. It's a safe bet it's not because they don't want to offend Satanists or Wiccans. QuoteNotre Dame is the Fighting Irish, not the Drunk Irish. See, I've never quite understood the difference. OK, I'll shut up now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steveorino 7 #36 March 14, 2007 What is a DEMON DEACON ala Wake Forest? Oh, never mind, I've been to a church board meeting before. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TrophyHusband 0 #37 March 14, 2007 my high school mascot was the monarch, very offensive to british royalty, lions, and buterflies. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites yjumpinoz 0 #38 March 14, 2007 In my state, we have a Trojan team and a Seamen team. Just imagine the cheers for that game. Go Trojans, stop the Seamen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steveorino 7 #39 March 14, 2007 I have always though certain names and images were insensitive, tacky or racist. EXAMPLE: name: Redskins image: Cleavland Indians logo actions: white guys dancing (poorly) in native american costume, tomahawk chop But for the life of me, I cannot see the offense in terms like Braves, Chiefs, Seminoles, Fighting Illini any more than Vikings, Fighting Irish, and Celtics Am I missing something? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #40 March 14, 2007 QuoteAm I missing something? Yeah. Cleveland Indians. Implies an unfair preference for Pakistanis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites willard 0 #41 March 14, 2007 The Cleveland Indians logo of Chief Wahoo is, in my opinion, rather disrespectful. But the name has a very different story. The Cleveland Indians are named in honor of the first Native American to play in the major leagues, Louis Francis Sockalexis. Baseball Hall of Fame player-manager Hughie Jennings wrote of him: “At no time has a player crowded so many remarkable accomplishments into such a short period of time as Sockalexis. He should have been the greatest player of all times - greater than Cobb, Wagner, Lajoie, Hornsby or any of the other men who made history for the game.” Luckily the team mascot, Slider, has no direct connection to the name or logo other than owned by the same team. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hayfield 0 #42 March 14, 2007 Aren't my Redskins in the NFL? I know they've played like a shitty college team this season, but really now..."Remember the First Commandment: Don't Fuck Up!" -Crusty Old Pete Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #43 March 14, 2007 Our local high schools include the Kamiakin Braves and the Richland Bombers, the latter showing pride in our local atomic bomb connection...produced plutonium for the first tested atomic bomb and the Nagasaki bomb. The Richland logo is attached. Yes...that's really it, on a mousepad. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zing 2 #44 March 14, 2007 I spent the first five years of my life in a neighborhood of a large Pennsylvania city where the use of an ethnic slur might get you a knife in the ribs. Then my family moved to a small town in North Dakota called Wahpeton, mostly populated by Norwegians, Swedes and Germans. The name for the high school sports teams ... the Wahpeton Wops ... and the team cheer for the mighty wops... Go Wops, Go! Alas, in the these times of political correctness, those teams are now the Huskies, but I've managed to save a few souveniers from the days of the Wops. In fact, a fellow member of a bowling team I was on in SoCal twelve years ago, who is of Italian descent, was so tickled by the story of the Wahpeton Wops, that I gave him a team jacket from my high school with a large Wahpeton Wops patch on the front and purple and gold letters across the back proclaiming the town the home of "The Mighty Wops ... Go Wops Go." He wore that jacket proudly and when Joe died, he requested that the team jacket be placed in his casket. Gone, but not forgotten.Zing Lurks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #45 March 15, 2007 Quotewhen Joe died, he requested that the team jacket be placed in his casket. Gone, but not forgotten. Well, at least that kept you from being an "Indian giver." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 3 #46 March 16, 2007 Quote Well, at least that kept you from being an "Indian giver." Which is a phrase related to white men bringing government goods to Native people, and then selling them off before they made it to the distribution center. "Redskin" is no different than "Spic, Chink, Ni****r, Guinea, Blanco, Cracker, Jigaboo, Shiksa, Spearchucker, Peckerwood, Squaw, Beach Nigger, or any other noun that is racially based or intented to denigrate another person on the basis of skin color. The difference is that in the US, it's seemingly acceptible to single out one culture for commercial uses where it's not acceptable to single out others. While some would debate the minutae, deep down I believe any reasonable, intelligent person knows it's wrong. It's as offensive, but not the same as calling someone a faggot, raghead, etc because those things are based (at least from some point of view) on characteristic traits or religious choice as opposed to skin color. If teams are based on the historical views of years past, I feel we should have a national team name (for any sport) of "AmeriKKKans." It would accurately represent America at one moment of history. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #47 March 16, 2007 QuoteIf you've ever seen "Chief Illiniwek" prancing around you'd wonder what on Earth these folks are thinking of if they think it honors any heritage They do not seem to mind since the head dress and outfit was given to the school by a tribe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #48 March 16, 2007 Quote"Redskin" is no different than "Spic, Chink, Ni****r, Guinea, Blanco, Cracker, Jigaboo, Shiksa, Spearchucker, Peckerwood, Squaw, Beach Nigger, or any other noun that is racially based or intented to denigrate another person on the basis of skin color. No - not in the sports context. Nobody picks a name for their sportsteam that has a denegrating context. Or your list would be the sports team names. dBattman's post says it fine "Mascots and team names, IMHO, are often picked for characteristics (real or figurative) that we would like to see 'transfered' or associated with the team. Raiders, Bears, Bengals, Pirates, Buffalo, Giants, Vikings, Mariners- all strong, dominant themes that fans like seeing transfered to their sports teams." You are only right, if you think traits such as strength, speed, perserverence, and bravery are "denegrating". And some people are so brainwashed that they do think those traits are bad things. In some cases, there is also a "bad guy" connotation in the name as well. That's a different motivation (Pirates, Raiders) For me, I will only take it seriously, if mainstream Native Americans take offense (not a small and vocal group then we'd have no names at all, but mainstream) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DSE 3 #49 March 16, 2007 Several nations have issued letters, requests, and in some cases, demands. Rarely are their wishes complied with. Native culture by nature, is a quiet culture. The Ute nation in northeastern Utah for example, asked the University of Utah to quit running a "brave" around the field, acting like the moron in the image posted earlier. The Ute nation also gave the headdress and outfit to the Running Utes/University of Utah) back in the 60's, not knowing that it would be used in a comical, ridiculous fashion. For years the Running Utes refused. Finally, we got a new Director of Indian Affairs in the state offices, who made it pretty clear to the college that there would be economic impacts if they didn't comply with the requests of the Ute nation. The school was given the right to use the name "Ute" so long as they kept it in a respectable context, and agreed to no longer parade a white guy with greasepaint on his face, leaping over trashcans and acting like a fool. Everyone is happy now. How many in a vocal minority? The Native American Congress passed a resolution several years ago, asking certain teams (like the Redskins) to change their name, and asked the Braves to quit the Tomahawk Chop. Native Americans are the smallest ethnic group in the US, however, so not sure how many it takes to bring about change. I do get your point; it's OK to denigrate another culture if you're being a sport about it. i've heard ths silliness all my life. "Hey, I was only joking when I called him a 'prairie nigger'..." "He's such a nice guy, for a black man." "Pirate/Raider" doesn't apply to a specific culture. Are they Spanish pirates? Greek pirates? Malay pirates? Maybe they're Turkish raiders? See...the point is, indigenous people don't like, and haven't liked being referred to as "Redskin." Period. But to some that are either uninformed or unintelligent, it's not a slur. Tribal names used in team names aren't a slur, IMO, such as "Ute, Cherokee, Osage, etc." Most nations have come to some accomodation with schools using those sorts of names. Funny thing...even Strom Thurmond, a great leader within our government once said "I don't see any harm in the use of the word "Nigger." Now it's an illegal word in the media, books, and most of society. I enjoy good ethnic jokes, I'm not a freak about it. Lisa Lamponelli is one of my favorite comics and nothing is sacred with her. Joking from a comedic viewpoint and naming a team are two very different things. One is to be laughed at, and the other shouldn't be laughed at, IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #50 March 16, 2007 QuoteThe Ute nation in northeastern Utah for example, asked the University of Utah to quit running a "brave" around the field, acting like the moron in the image posted earlier. The Ute nation also gave the headdress and outfit to the Running Utes/University of Utah) back in the 60's, not knowing that it would be used in a comical, ridiculous fashion. For years the Running Utes refused. Finally, we got a new Director of Indian Affairs in the state offices, who made it pretty clear to the college that there would be economic impacts if they didn't comply with the requests of the Ute nation. The school was given the right to use the name "Ute" so long as they kept it in a respectable context, and agreed to no longer parade a white guy with greasepaint on his face, leaping over trashcans and acting like a fool. Everyone is happy now. . . . Tribal names used in team names aren't a slur, IMO, such as "Ute, Cherokee, Osage, etc." Most nations have come to some accomodation with schools using those sorts of names. I like this type of dialogue and solution a lot better than blanket rules put forth by guilty white guys. It's a good example of 'acceptable' or not being situational (what is the school doing with the logo) and up to the classiness of both the school and the local NA crowd to figure it out. I do not enjoy ethnic jokes. I don't consider myself a freak because of that. The nature of jokes is much more invasive and insidious to people attitudes than something more public like a school sports team logo. QuoteI do get your point; it's OK to denigrate another culture if you're being a sport about it. i've heard ths silliness all my life. "Hey, I was only joking when I called him a 'prairie nigger'..." "He's such a nice guy, for a black man." That's not my point, misprepresentations like this are bad form and childish. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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dbattman 0 #31 August 20, 2005 Well, that depends. Mascots and team names, IMHO, are often picked for characteristics (real or figurative) that we would like to see 'transfered' or associated with the team. Raiders, Bears, Bengals, Pirates, Buffalo, Giants, Vikings, Mariners- all strong, dominant themes that fans like seeing transfered to their sports teams. When I was in University from '91-95 the school team was the Miami Redskins. For those that don't know, Miami Universtiy is in Oxford, OH and is named for the Miami Tribe that originaly inhabited that area. In fact, a wealthy individual purchased two large parcels of land in what would become Florida and named one after his home city of Dayton (Daytona) and the other after his geographic region the Miami Valley (Miami). There's a long history of how the team became the Redskins starting with early references to Big Red and such, but when it was adopted for the athletic department the University continued their long tradition of working with the Tribe to design the dress, imagery and logos (none of which were extreme characitures like the Cleveland Indians). The mascot wore traditional ceremonial dress, spent several weeks during the summer living with the Tribe absorbing the culture and practicing the dances for the games and I never, ever, saw him doing a big jumping split during a game. Any member of the Miami Tribe is admitted to the University free of charge which had been going on for a long time. So, what about 'Redskin'? When the European settlers were pushing West (invading Indian lands, admittedly) and the Indians would attack they wore red war paint, so the settlers called them 'redskins'. Again, a dominant aggressive theme that people associate with a bunch of people battling it out on the gridiron, or the ice, or the diamond. Racist? I wouldn't go nearly that far but then again we live in this new 'ultra-sensative' world where you can be charged with assault for wearing too much cologne because some people might have strong allergies or sensitivities to odors (it's happened in Canada). As far as the Miami sports team, the new name is the 'Redhawks' with their mascot 'Swoop.' Disgusting. If they had to bow to PC they should have changed it to the 'Miami Tribe' and kept the strong ties to the indigineous Miami Indians. I can see where some people would be upset with the logos of Indians with oversized noses, or comical characitures but just blanket- targeting anything with an ethnic orient is going overboard. Oh, and a group of Colorado students, trying to call attention to this issue with the old 'reverse psycology' of "how about the 'Cleveland Paleskins'? How would you like that!?" did have an intramural team named the 'Fighting Whities.' Their idea backfired when they were swamped with phone calls and emails by white folks wanting to know how they could buy a T-shirt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunman 0 #32 August 20, 2005 Quote"The economical Pontiac Jew." Or, "Our patented Blonde (tm) Suspension - its light, airy and makes for a mighty good ride." Or maybe, "The fashionable Chevrolet Gay." As a gay, blonde Jew, I am deeply offended by your comments. Really, though, I think for the most part, using a people's nationality to market a product is harmless... It's not really derogatory because you would only adopt the name if there was a positive quality about it that you wanted to emulate. The exception is when the name could be seen as a racial slur, such as "Redskins". I believe that is very wrong and highly offensive to many. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dbattman 0 #33 August 20, 2005 Careful. don't confuse 'racial' with 'racist.' 'Racial' is refering to racial characteristics. 'Racist' refers to the belief that one race is superior or inferior to another. Native Americans were proud. They had dignity, they were resourceful, and they were charitable by teaching newcomers to the Western world how to survive. And when they got pissed off with the same newcomers pushing into their land they kicked ass too, wearing red war paint. Hmmmm, 'Redskins' sounds like a pretty pround, strong, domineering, ass-kicking name for a football team to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #34 March 14, 2007 No more illiniwek http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/basketball/ncaa/03/13/chief.illiniwek.ap/index.html steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #35 March 14, 2007 Not to mention teams with the name "Devils" in them (Red Devils, Blue Devils, etc.). Some conservative Christian groups are out to ban those, too. It's a safe bet it's not because they don't want to offend Satanists or Wiccans. QuoteNotre Dame is the Fighting Irish, not the Drunk Irish. See, I've never quite understood the difference. OK, I'll shut up now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #36 March 14, 2007 What is a DEMON DEACON ala Wake Forest? Oh, never mind, I've been to a church board meeting before. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #37 March 14, 2007 my high school mascot was the monarch, very offensive to british royalty, lions, and buterflies. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yjumpinoz 0 #38 March 14, 2007 In my state, we have a Trojan team and a Seamen team. Just imagine the cheers for that game. Go Trojans, stop the Seamen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #39 March 14, 2007 I have always though certain names and images were insensitive, tacky or racist. EXAMPLE: name: Redskins image: Cleavland Indians logo actions: white guys dancing (poorly) in native american costume, tomahawk chop But for the life of me, I cannot see the offense in terms like Braves, Chiefs, Seminoles, Fighting Illini any more than Vikings, Fighting Irish, and Celtics Am I missing something? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #40 March 14, 2007 QuoteAm I missing something? Yeah. Cleveland Indians. Implies an unfair preference for Pakistanis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
willard 0 #41 March 14, 2007 The Cleveland Indians logo of Chief Wahoo is, in my opinion, rather disrespectful. But the name has a very different story. The Cleveland Indians are named in honor of the first Native American to play in the major leagues, Louis Francis Sockalexis. Baseball Hall of Fame player-manager Hughie Jennings wrote of him: “At no time has a player crowded so many remarkable accomplishments into such a short period of time as Sockalexis. He should have been the greatest player of all times - greater than Cobb, Wagner, Lajoie, Hornsby or any of the other men who made history for the game.” Luckily the team mascot, Slider, has no direct connection to the name or logo other than owned by the same team. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hayfield 0 #42 March 14, 2007 Aren't my Redskins in the NFL? I know they've played like a shitty college team this season, but really now..."Remember the First Commandment: Don't Fuck Up!" -Crusty Old Pete Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #43 March 14, 2007 Our local high schools include the Kamiakin Braves and the Richland Bombers, the latter showing pride in our local atomic bomb connection...produced plutonium for the first tested atomic bomb and the Nagasaki bomb. The Richland logo is attached. Yes...that's really it, on a mousepad. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zing 2 #44 March 14, 2007 I spent the first five years of my life in a neighborhood of a large Pennsylvania city where the use of an ethnic slur might get you a knife in the ribs. Then my family moved to a small town in North Dakota called Wahpeton, mostly populated by Norwegians, Swedes and Germans. The name for the high school sports teams ... the Wahpeton Wops ... and the team cheer for the mighty wops... Go Wops, Go! Alas, in the these times of political correctness, those teams are now the Huskies, but I've managed to save a few souveniers from the days of the Wops. In fact, a fellow member of a bowling team I was on in SoCal twelve years ago, who is of Italian descent, was so tickled by the story of the Wahpeton Wops, that I gave him a team jacket from my high school with a large Wahpeton Wops patch on the front and purple and gold letters across the back proclaiming the town the home of "The Mighty Wops ... Go Wops Go." He wore that jacket proudly and when Joe died, he requested that the team jacket be placed in his casket. Gone, but not forgotten.Zing Lurks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #45 March 15, 2007 Quotewhen Joe died, he requested that the team jacket be placed in his casket. Gone, but not forgotten. Well, at least that kept you from being an "Indian giver." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #46 March 16, 2007 Quote Well, at least that kept you from being an "Indian giver." Which is a phrase related to white men bringing government goods to Native people, and then selling them off before they made it to the distribution center. "Redskin" is no different than "Spic, Chink, Ni****r, Guinea, Blanco, Cracker, Jigaboo, Shiksa, Spearchucker, Peckerwood, Squaw, Beach Nigger, or any other noun that is racially based or intented to denigrate another person on the basis of skin color. The difference is that in the US, it's seemingly acceptible to single out one culture for commercial uses where it's not acceptable to single out others. While some would debate the minutae, deep down I believe any reasonable, intelligent person knows it's wrong. It's as offensive, but not the same as calling someone a faggot, raghead, etc because those things are based (at least from some point of view) on characteristic traits or religious choice as opposed to skin color. If teams are based on the historical views of years past, I feel we should have a national team name (for any sport) of "AmeriKKKans." It would accurately represent America at one moment of history. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #47 March 16, 2007 QuoteIf you've ever seen "Chief Illiniwek" prancing around you'd wonder what on Earth these folks are thinking of if they think it honors any heritage They do not seem to mind since the head dress and outfit was given to the school by a tribe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #48 March 16, 2007 Quote"Redskin" is no different than "Spic, Chink, Ni****r, Guinea, Blanco, Cracker, Jigaboo, Shiksa, Spearchucker, Peckerwood, Squaw, Beach Nigger, or any other noun that is racially based or intented to denigrate another person on the basis of skin color. No - not in the sports context. Nobody picks a name for their sportsteam that has a denegrating context. Or your list would be the sports team names. dBattman's post says it fine "Mascots and team names, IMHO, are often picked for characteristics (real or figurative) that we would like to see 'transfered' or associated with the team. Raiders, Bears, Bengals, Pirates, Buffalo, Giants, Vikings, Mariners- all strong, dominant themes that fans like seeing transfered to their sports teams." You are only right, if you think traits such as strength, speed, perserverence, and bravery are "denegrating". And some people are so brainwashed that they do think those traits are bad things. In some cases, there is also a "bad guy" connotation in the name as well. That's a different motivation (Pirates, Raiders) For me, I will only take it seriously, if mainstream Native Americans take offense (not a small and vocal group then we'd have no names at all, but mainstream) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #49 March 16, 2007 Several nations have issued letters, requests, and in some cases, demands. Rarely are their wishes complied with. Native culture by nature, is a quiet culture. The Ute nation in northeastern Utah for example, asked the University of Utah to quit running a "brave" around the field, acting like the moron in the image posted earlier. The Ute nation also gave the headdress and outfit to the Running Utes/University of Utah) back in the 60's, not knowing that it would be used in a comical, ridiculous fashion. For years the Running Utes refused. Finally, we got a new Director of Indian Affairs in the state offices, who made it pretty clear to the college that there would be economic impacts if they didn't comply with the requests of the Ute nation. The school was given the right to use the name "Ute" so long as they kept it in a respectable context, and agreed to no longer parade a white guy with greasepaint on his face, leaping over trashcans and acting like a fool. Everyone is happy now. How many in a vocal minority? The Native American Congress passed a resolution several years ago, asking certain teams (like the Redskins) to change their name, and asked the Braves to quit the Tomahawk Chop. Native Americans are the smallest ethnic group in the US, however, so not sure how many it takes to bring about change. I do get your point; it's OK to denigrate another culture if you're being a sport about it. i've heard ths silliness all my life. "Hey, I was only joking when I called him a 'prairie nigger'..." "He's such a nice guy, for a black man." "Pirate/Raider" doesn't apply to a specific culture. Are they Spanish pirates? Greek pirates? Malay pirates? Maybe they're Turkish raiders? See...the point is, indigenous people don't like, and haven't liked being referred to as "Redskin." Period. But to some that are either uninformed or unintelligent, it's not a slur. Tribal names used in team names aren't a slur, IMO, such as "Ute, Cherokee, Osage, etc." Most nations have come to some accomodation with schools using those sorts of names. Funny thing...even Strom Thurmond, a great leader within our government once said "I don't see any harm in the use of the word "Nigger." Now it's an illegal word in the media, books, and most of society. I enjoy good ethnic jokes, I'm not a freak about it. Lisa Lamponelli is one of my favorite comics and nothing is sacred with her. Joking from a comedic viewpoint and naming a team are two very different things. One is to be laughed at, and the other shouldn't be laughed at, IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #50 March 16, 2007 QuoteThe Ute nation in northeastern Utah for example, asked the University of Utah to quit running a "brave" around the field, acting like the moron in the image posted earlier. The Ute nation also gave the headdress and outfit to the Running Utes/University of Utah) back in the 60's, not knowing that it would be used in a comical, ridiculous fashion. For years the Running Utes refused. Finally, we got a new Director of Indian Affairs in the state offices, who made it pretty clear to the college that there would be economic impacts if they didn't comply with the requests of the Ute nation. The school was given the right to use the name "Ute" so long as they kept it in a respectable context, and agreed to no longer parade a white guy with greasepaint on his face, leaping over trashcans and acting like a fool. Everyone is happy now. . . . Tribal names used in team names aren't a slur, IMO, such as "Ute, Cherokee, Osage, etc." Most nations have come to some accomodation with schools using those sorts of names. I like this type of dialogue and solution a lot better than blanket rules put forth by guilty white guys. It's a good example of 'acceptable' or not being situational (what is the school doing with the logo) and up to the classiness of both the school and the local NA crowd to figure it out. I do not enjoy ethnic jokes. I don't consider myself a freak because of that. The nature of jokes is much more invasive and insidious to people attitudes than something more public like a school sports team logo. QuoteI do get your point; it's OK to denigrate another culture if you're being a sport about it. i've heard ths silliness all my life. "Hey, I was only joking when I called him a 'prairie nigger'..." "He's such a nice guy, for a black man." That's not my point, misprepresentations like this are bad form and childish. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
