Desire to witness a fatality

[MWGemini 0]

Like I posted a long time ago, I had a sort of morbid curiosity about it too. Until it happened. Read the post I linked to a few posts up, that might help explain things. At one time, my outlook wasn't so different than his. The reality of death changed that for me.

Mike

[crotalus01 0]

huh...i just watched a fellow jumper femur in a few days ago. i have seen another jumper hit the ground in a hook turn about 7 feet away from me, and yet another hit spinning down in a reserve/main entanglement. all of them lived thank God, but in each case the impact was so hard i thought they were dead. in NONE of those cases did i run forward to see the carnage. you ask about seeing a fatality, i can tell you all you ever need to see is a HARD impact - one that you think the person is dead from. that will cure you from wanting to see an actual fatality, something i pray i will never have to see (but most likely will unfortunately).

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[windcatcher 0]

Hey, if you desire to witness a fatality, aren't you, in essence, wanting someone to die?
I don;'t know if this is the sport for you. Are you sure about your own mortality, what will happen to YOU when you die?

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[skybill 19]

Greetings DOG,
Well if you really want to see someone go in then go in yourself!! Don't expect some other jumper to be your entertainment!!! Fatalities may be a tragic aspect of our sport, BUT "ALL OF THEM CAN BE AVOIDED!!!!!!!" This includes your own!!!!!

After being around this sport for 41 years, yes I have had the not so nice occassion to be around at a bounce (several) a lot of broken bones and other injuries (many) and fortunately a lot of good skydives.

I don't know why you posted this crazy idea? I hope it is a joke or an attempt to see what people would say?? If your post is what you really think then I can truly say I'd like to know what you been smokin' because no one in their right mind would want to see someone bounce!! I've been at several and it is something I'd just as well not have been at!! I'm no better off for it and in some ways I think maybe just the opposite.

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[FlyboySMB 0]

Find yourself a padded room to live in without a computer. When you prove to the doctors that you should not stay in that room, come out and try again!

Until then, keep your stupid thoughts to yourself!

[JRock 0]

I witnessed a fatality one year into the sport and have lost two friends in the last nine months.
You might want to go seek some help if you are asking this question.

I don't know what your deal is but you will NEVER LOOK AT THIS SPORT THE FUCKING SAME ONCE YOU HAVE GONE THROUGH THIS!!!!

This is directed at the person who started this thread... Not CSpenceFLY... to clarify.

[chadkal 0]

I fortunately have never witnessed a skydiving fatelity, but I have witnessed death on many occasions, and I can promise you that there is nothing that you want to see. I don't wish the things that I have seen on anyone. As far as seeing a hard impact, I have witness this many times and there is nothing entertaining about it. I have also been the guy who had the hard impact. It has been 8 weeks since my impact, and I feel very fortunate to be alive. I hope that in the next month I will be able to walk again. Unfortunately these things do happen in this sport, but nobody should ever have to witness it. It will be an image that will be burned into your mind and you will never forget. I promise you this is not what you want

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I am a greek midget

[UntamedDOG 0]

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It seems to me that many of those who are flaming the original poster feel the need to mention the deaths they have seen, or to make sure the original poster knows that they are in the club that is 'no stranger to death'.

I think this is perhaps the 'badge of pride' the original poster was referring to and he is just wondering what it feels like to be part of that elite little club. I think the person who compared it to being one of the 'cool people who have been shot' above hit the nail on the head.

BINGO! We have a winner. I knew the first thing people would do in their attempt to flame me is to brag about the fatalities they have witnessed and how "awful" it was.

I would like to futher elaborate on my original post.

Witnessing a fatality gives you the right to say "I've been there dude, and it ain't pretty" this is the experience that facinates me.

Judging by what other people have written, it does appear that witnessing a fatality puts you into that "elite" death club. You guys have proven this to me without even realising it!

I wonder what it would be like to call a family from the dropzone to inform them that their son is dead. The rush of emotions must be an unreal experience. If this is suppose to be such a horrible event, why are skydivers so eager to brag about what they had to do and how terrible it was? That is the badge of honor I am interested in exploring.

[Eiley 0]

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Like I posted a long time ago, I had a sort of morbid curiosity about it too. Until it happened. Read the post I linked to a few posts up, that might help explain things. At one time, my outlook wasn't so different than his. The reality of death changed that for me.

But you didn't slam him. It's more the people who go into vivid detail of gory things they have seen and then call the original poster sick. The details don't add anything to the comment and it feels hypocriticial.

I don't want to put words into the OP's mouth (maybe he is just a sicko), but there is definitely a certain amount of bonding that goes on when people share profound experiences and you see it at the DZ all the time when people discuss a particular fatality or deceased person. You really notice it when people start talking about their 'close friend' who went in - when that 'close friend' was someone they had met at a couple of boogies. It is not unusual for people to want to have their own small role to play in a particular drama or to try and share that bonding that can arise out of tragedy.

Maybe I'm giving the OP too much credit, but I think perhaps he was just giving voice to the morbid curiosity and/or wish to belong to a certain group that may be seen as 'elite' that many people have.

ETA: no need to put words into OP's mouth, he just beat me to posting.

nothing to see here

[MWGemini 0]

I didn't slam him because I can understand where he is coming from. I think it's a very bad attitude to have, however. He says:

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I wonder what it would be like to call a family from the dropzone to inform them that their son is dead. The rush of emotions must be an unreal experience. If this is suppose to be such a horrible event, why are skydivers so eager to brag about what they had to do and how terrible it was? That is the badge of honor I am interested in exploring.

Badge of honor? Try again pal. Nobody is eager to brag about how they witnessed a friend die. Not anyone who has actually experienced it, at least. If anything, we're eager ot warn others of the danger to prevent it from happening again. Death in real life is a whole lot messier than it appears in whatever movies you've been watching. It is not something that you want to experience for yourself. Trust me, and the dozens of other people who are telling you the same thing.

I think what is really pissing people off (myself included) is that you are not saying you are curious how you would react, but rather stating that you want someone to die so that you can be entertained. That attitude reminds me of the gladiator days of Rome, and I'm glad we left those days behind.

Do you really think that somehow watching one of your friends die will make you a better person? Do you think it is going to somehow enhance your life? Granted, I've had a lot of bad things happen to me in my 24 years, and I've watched a few friends die. Those experiences have probably made me stronger emotionally, or maybe just jaded. But I would rather just have my friends back and my youthful innocence with it. Once you step through that door, you can't go back. And believe me, you'll want to.

Mike

[Skolls081102 0]

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Witnessing a fatality gives you the right to say "I've been there dude, and it ain't pretty" this is the experience that facinates me.
Judging by what other people have written, it does appear that witnessing a fatality puts you into that "elite" death club. You guys have proven this to me without even realising it!

It's no elite club dude. Things I have witnessed, I don't want other people to witness. It's not sometihng I am proud to say I saw- it was what happened, and I was there to help, and lend support.

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I wonder what it would be like to call a family from the dropzone to inform them that their son is dead. The rush of emotions must be an unreal experience. If this is suppose to be such a horrible event, why are skydivers so eager to brag about what they had to do and how terrible it was? That is the badge of honor I am interested in exploring.

I hope I never have to make that call. It's not a set of emotions that many people would want to experiance. Having to tell someone that the person they care about is seriously hurt, or dead.

Understand this- having witnessed a severe injury or death, I, and I assume most people, don't see it as an elite club. We see it as an unfortunate event, that we happened to be witness to. And it changes your life.
I think you need to think long and hard about what you are really asking to be witness to. Because if/when you do witness it, it will change your life- and I can pretty much gaurantee, that you'll wish you had never seen it happen.

The sole intention, is learning to fly.Condition grounded, but determined to try.Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies.Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit.

[Eiley 0]

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Badge of honor? Try again pal. Nobody is eager to brag about how they witnessed a friend die. Not anyone who has actually experienced it, at least. If anything, we're eager ot warn others of the danger to prevent it from happening again. Death in real life is a whole lot messier than it appears in whatever movies you've been watching. It is not something that you want to experience for yourself.

Okay, seriously? This is bragging. It sounds like you can't wait to tell the world how what you've seen is so much worse than what they have seen and you are trying to protect them from themselves.

I'm not flaming you, because I actually think this is a very natural reaction. I do it myself, as do so many people at the DZ. You hear it around the bonfire all the time - one person tells their bounce story and then the next tells their worse story and each person tries to outdo each other.

Having said that, the OP could most certainly choose some of his words better. But this sentiment I think he has correct.

nothing to see here

[IanHarrop 37]

I think that your defintion of bragging may be screwed up.
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brag : verb {I} -gg- INFORMAL DISAPPROVING
to speak too proudly about what you have done or what you own:
- She's always bragging about how much money she earns.
- {+ that} They bragged that their team had never been beaten.

braggart : noun {C} OLD-FASHIONED DISAPPROVING
someone who proudly talks a lot about themselves and their achievements or possessions
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not reading any thing that comes close to speaking "proudly" in the comments people have made about fatalities in our sport. More like horror is what I am getting. I don't think these people are glad they saw what they saw and I don't think they want to repeat it.

I refer you back to my original post in this thread and suggest you seek professional help.

This fascination with death and the desire to witness the terrible emotions of those that are closest to the victim is not right.

Edited to add:
- You scare me
- I don't want to know you
- I don't want to be anywhere you are
- I think others should be afraid of you too
- I hope no one leaves their gear unattended around you

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[MWGemini 0]

Well, you can continue to think that. Nothing I say or do will change your mind.

Very few deaths come with good reason, and even those are regrettable. If you disagree with that, then I feel sorry for you.

At no point have I been trying to brag about the things I've seen. On the contrary. I wish that I'd never seen them in the first place. In fact, I'm sure that the deaths I have seen are much LESS horrible than many of the ones that other posters are talking about. What I've seen is bad enough, and I never want to see it again, much less see something worse.

I think that it is that sentiment (not wanting to see death) that is the foundation for a lot of arguments over things like downsizing too soon, or performing hook turns when people are not ready. They've seen the consequences before and are trying to prevent it from happening again. They aren't necessarily trying to save anyone from themselves, but perhaps they are trying to save themselves from having to deal with yet another senseless death.

We already have far too many of them, and this guy is wishing for more. Doesn't that anger you as well?

Mike

[WeakMindedFool 0]

Dude! This may very well be the funniest shit I've ever seen on this site. Brilliant! No offence folks, but he’s got a point. I don’t think his desire is to see someone go in as much as it is to give the rest of you an intolerable idea, have you argue against it in such a way as to prove his idea correct.
Wow…
That was interesting.

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
Check out these Videos

[Eiley 0]

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We already have far too many of them, and this guy is wishing for more. Doesn't that anger you as well?

I more got the impression that he wished he had seen one of the ones that had happened, not that he was hoping that someone would go in for his personal entertainment. Again, perhaps I'm giving him too much credit, but that was the impression I got.


Edited because the question really didn't add much to the discussion

nothing to see here

[sinker 0]

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Dude! This may very well be the funniest shit I've ever seen on this site. Brilliant! No offence folks, but he’s got a point. I don’t think his desire is to see someone go in as much as it is to give the rest of you an intolerable idea, have you argue against it in such a way as to prove his idea correct.
Wow…
That was interesting.

I agree, the responses have certainly been interesting, esp. the fact that so many responders came in w/ "you don't know what you're wishing for... I've been there and it sucks." I'm sure most of those posters, if not all, really MEANT what they said... but for someone who hasn't experienced it, it SEEMS somewhat elitist, bragadocious (sp?)... although those ares not quite the right words for it.

This whole thing reminds me of some people who murder... they don't know what it's like to take a life, and they are mezmerized by it. Eventually, the desire to EXPERIENCE the sensations overwhelm them and they kill. It's a common theme seen in movies and shows.

Although I think what the OP is posting is pathological, I think deep down there is a little bit of this in most of us... the "rubber-necking" syndrome... we all look at the car wreck scene on the road, wanting to see "what happened," yet sometimes looking away when the first signs of carnage appear... then we may think, "if only I were more brave, if only I'd experienced the whole scene." It's like a deep seated voyuerism that is more than just visual, if that makes any sense.

it's really analogous to an addiction, this fascination that I think the OP touched on. Just look at all the popularity that sites like Ogrish and Rotten have garnered in the past couple of years. Look at the increase in gore on TV and movies... once you're satiated w/ a certain level of stimulation, there seems to be something w/i a lot of us to "NEED" to go to another, more graphic level.

This tendency is really partly what drove me OUT of the sport of skydiving. My last 8 jumps were two years ago. Having 4 kids, I left the sport b/c I didn't want to orphan them. I have never seen a jumper go in. But two of my AFF instructors are now dead, one of them was a very well known skydiver who many of you knew, Chris Martin. It chilled me to know that this man, father of 2, is no longer gracing this earth. We drank together, smoked marlboro lights together, scrubbed the Twin-Bo together. It's haunting to know that the man, with whom I had a theological/philosophical discussion about porn while climbing to altitude, hammered in.
Also, there was this old guy where I used to jump... he consistently low pulled and everyone thought it was just a matter of time. I think he was even grounded a few times by the DZO. I was on a three way w/ him and pulled by 3k. While under canopy, I saw him tumble and tumble and tumble until his AAD fired. He had a very short reserve ride into some trees. I watched him all the way down and was just sick to my stomach... but yet I watched... couldn't take my eyes off him, partly for concern, partly b/c of what I THINK the OP was referring to... and so I don't jump anymore... I don't want to know what seeing a skydiving death would do to my psyche. It's not worth it to me. I know what it did to me to assist in CPR on a man w/ massive head trauma on a residential road in Nashville did to me... profoundly affected my life. I cried alot after that, w/o any provocation or fore-warning... the tears would just flow all of a sudden.

(even though I no longer jump, I still love coming here and living vicariously through you all... and OP, I hope you get over this wish before it actually comes true)

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[yarpos 4]

Dude!..its not an "idea" for a lot of people...its been an unfortunate reality

How you work out that the discussion supports his point, whatever the hell that was, escapes me

regards, Steve
the older I get...the better I was

[bigbearfng 16]

I was only reading this until your second post.
Dude-how old are you?????
It obviously sounds like you havn't been on the receiving end of one of those phone calls in your life yet.........
GROW UP!

[darrenspooner 0]

Is this really any different to all the people (me included and probably most of the people that posted here) that slow down at a car smash trying to get a good look at blood, guts and hopefully death? Why do we do that? We are drawn to it, we cause tailbacks and accidents because we are sticky beaking, rubber necking, whatever. Its such a well recognised phenomena that we even made up these names for it. But who here wishes that they saw the accident as well as the consequences?

[happythoughts 0]

This has two sources.

Boredom, people slow down for traffic accidents because "it is the most interesting thing".

Objectification. If you don't know people, it is ok if bad stuff happens to them for your entertainment. I see it in all phases of life.

If it has reached this level, maybe some counselling would help you reconnect with human beings.

[darrenspooner 0]

I'm not sure its about connecting with human beings, and whether counselling might help. What's so bad about death anyway? One philosophy says its the only thing that gives life meaning.

When I look at car accidents its not because I'm bored. Its because its novel experience and we all learn from that. It makes me question my own existence, it makes be consider my own safety on the road, and it makes me think I only got one shot at this so I don't waste a breath. Its not that I want to see cars smashed up or annoymous dead bodies. But it just makes me think about my own existence.

Does that mean I need counselling? Does it mean the OP needs counselling? I don't think he's wishing someone died just for his own voyeuristic pleasure. He's just interested in the issues associated with seeing something horrific and the effects that has on others. This feels like a very personal issue because we all see fellow skydivers as kin. But I just think that there are many people out there who have been offended by this string that would think nothing of peering into a car wreck at a dead person because they don't know them. This has got everything to say about how we feel about death.

[namgrunt 0]

death is not pretty, cool ,etc.
I have had the unfornitate luck?unluck to be there
yes I will run to you ,hold your hand , pray with or for you.
it smells,its ugly ,it hurts.
as a former e.m.t. ,army cross trained medic I feel an obligation to try.
NO one should be allowed to pass alone ,so I run,knowing its bad and there will probibly not be anything I can do .
death is ugly,pain is real ,death sucks
but yes if you go in I will run to you and try.later I will go off alone and cry but then and there I will be brave for you .it never leaves you what you see ,smell ,hear, it sucks

if you want to join this witness club YOU need help.

but I will be there for you if you go in.

..

59 YEARS,OVERWEIGHT,BALDIND,X-GRUNT
LAST MIL. JUMP VIET-NAM(QUAN-TRI)
www.dzmemories.com

[StefB 0]

Stomping in dog shit gives you the right to say "I've been there dude, and it ain't pretty" this is the experience that facinates me.

Judging by what other people have written, it does appear that stomping in dog shit puts you into that "elite" stomping in dog shit club.

Yes, after this fascinating experience you can brag about the size and smell of your special dog shit with other dog shit stompers too.

Important:

Avoid unhappy dog shit stompers who regret this fascinating experience. Why would they tell you their stories, if is isn't worth the experience?

[Michele 1]

In re: bragging...

I spend my time with several "old timers", and I have yet to hear them brag about anything. They've been the ones to bury their friends, to help pick up the dismembered body parts; they don't brag about it. They don't even talk about it.

I have no wish to watch a fatality. There was one time I thought it would be a fatality, and I looked away. He didn't die (damned lucky for him...damned lucky, nothing more...), and I am thrilled he didn't.

As for car accidents, if they happen in front of me, I stop and do what I can while waiting for EMTs. If I'm in traffic, I keep an eye on my mirrors to make room for the PD/FD/Ambus, say a prayer as I'm passing the sight, and don't look.

There is no elitism badge that you get from witnessing a fatality. You get a solid dose of reality - of how fragile life can be, of how instantaneous death can pluck you from the face of this earth; but it's not a badge of elitism.

If what you're looking for is inclusion into a group of skydivers, then might I suggest you do the something else. Spend some time with them listening to their stories, talking about things other than death, being their friend. To feel on the outside of a group you wish to belong to is not fun, I'll agree there. But there are other ways to create the inclusion other than seeing someone die. There is no rush in making the call to a family member. There is no rush in seeing someone die. There is no rush in crying so long and so hard that your eyes swell and you can't see. And there is no rush in trying to find a way to help heal the hurt of those left behind. No rush at all.

(And I will admit to being horrified to read the original post...and thinking that there is some pathology which might be helped with counseling and addressing the issues rather than wishing to experience someone's death...that's a significant issue.)

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~