Teri Schiavo Execution in Florida

[flyclearjohn 0]

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If what you say is true, and from the A&E documentary that was played last night, the money from malpractice suits have not gone towards her care. And how do you justify statements like "When's the bitch going to die?" or "It's taking too long."

So Micheal Shiavo is sitting by her watching her die...Why did he decide after 9 years of having her attached to tubes and whatnot that finally this was her true wish?

Does Micheal Shiavo have his fiancee and children sitting next to him while he starves his first wife? I sure hope not...You may call me cynical...but after you have seen someone steal from someone else who was on a feeding tube and dependent on people for your life...that tends to make you cynical...Sorry, but I have read far too much about this Shiavo character...

BTW...yes, she had bulimia nervosa...not a drunk driver hit her...and yes, this condition went unchecked until the heart attack...Guess it's rather ironic that she is being starved to death...

~R+R...

The special master appointed by the court in this case gave a TV interview a couple of nights ago in which he said that the complaints about Michael had been exhaustively investigated and not only were all the complaints found to be baseless in fact, Michael had been actively involved in his wife's rehab for years and consistently pushed for more therapy and even experimental treatment modalities. At one point, a rehab facility even considered filing for a restraining order because he was hounding the medical staff to do more. After seven years of exhausting every treatment option available, he finally accepted the unanimous medical opinion (until her parents started bringing in their own right to life docs, most of whom were united by one common characteristic ...they never examined the patient) that there was no hope for recovery.

It seems that perhaps there are abandonment issues here that are tripping your emotional trigger on this issue. Now, I've never met any of the principals here, but I have known and worked with four of the docs directly involved in the case here in St Pete. Without exception they have agreed on two things.

1) There is no hope for recovery ...NONE!

2) Michael Schiavo did everything in his power to support his wife's recovery.


I'm assuming her parents acted with love and good intent, but they were out of control and I'm content the courts did a good job on the issues. I hope all will eventually find peace.


John

[dorbie 0]

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>Jeb has already said he won't because it would be illegal.

Let's hope he sticks to that, rather than listen to the right wingers who demand that he break the law. Funny how many conservatives are all law-and-order until a law gets in the way of a cause of theirs - then they have no qualms about advocating criminal action.

I don't think that's a right wing trait at all.

Plenty of right wingers don't agree with any interference, even the thus far legal interference. In the absence of a living will it's a simple custody dispute. Shouldn't even be in the headlines.

This is one of those bizarre American cases where politics seem to line people up on either side of an issue of personal conscience. This is not defined by right or left wing politics for me. The lefts misguided preconceptions about how a Christian should feel about sustaining someone on a feeding tube do not actually define how I or many others feel about this.

It's a case of personal tragedy with at least one side seeking publicity to bolster their desperate position. If I take anything away from this it will be to get a living will, rest assured it won't say keep me alive with a feeding tube in a bed for years.

[billvon 2,434]

>I don't think that's a right wing trait at all.

Legislation of morality is very much a right wing trait. Reference the gay marriage debate, the profanity debate, the stem cell debate. It is also the first thing to go out the window when it's in the way of what they want. I am reminded of an anti-abortion, anti-stem-cell-use republican who broke his back, and went to Europe seeking an experimental stem cell cure. "I'm against stem cell research, but God didn't mean for me to live in a wheelchair," was his reasoning.

>This is not defined by right or left wing politics for me.

Unfortunately, for everyone in congress (for example) it's split pretty much right down party lines.

>The lefts misguided preconceptions about how a Christian should feel
>about sustaining someone on a feeding tube do not actually define how
>I or many others feel about this.

No democrats I know of are telling christians how they should feel. They are saying Teri should be able to die in peace per her wishes. Many republicans are doing everything they can to thwart that, because that action does not agree with the morality they wish to impose upon her body.

[dorbie 0]

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>I don't think that's a right wing trait at all.

Legislation of morality is very much a right wing trait. Reference the gay marriage debate, the profanity debate, the stem cell debate. It is also the first thing to go out the window when it's in the way of what they want. I am reminded of an anti-abortion, anti-stem-cell-use republican who broke his back, and went to Europe seeking an experimental stem cell cure. "I'm against stem cell research, but God didn't mean for me to live in a wheelchair," was his reasoning.

>This is not defined by right or left wing politics for me.

Unfortunately, for everyone in congress (for example) it's split pretty much right down party lines.

>The lefts misguided preconceptions about how a Christian should feel
>about sustaining someone on a feeding tube do not actually define how
>I or many others feel about this.

No democrats I know of are telling christians how they should feel. They are saying Teri should be able to die in peace per her wishes. Many republicans are doing everything they can to thwart that, because that action does not agree with the morality they wish to impose upon her body.

Legislation is lawful and it cuts both ways. Your presumptions about the right's recourse to lawlessness are specious. It wasn't the right that started issuing illegal marriage licenses for example (since you went there). It isn't the right that routinely throws bags of feces at police during demonstrations (last I checked that wasn't legal).

Exhausting legal options is entirely legitimate.

As you contemplate why the right split towards supporting feeding Terri you might consider why the left split towards pulling the tube. That kind of observation cuts both ways.

Like I said it's part of the American political problem.

Most Democrats I hear (including you Bill) are making grand sweeping assumptions about how Christians and the right are reacting to this, in fact they have difficulty separating the right from the Christian right or accepting that there might be a diversity of opinion on any issue within any group on a host of issues. They preffer to draw up two extremes and paint one side black and the other white.

This is just the latest media and political fiasco in the USA. For whatever bizarre reasons the battle lines on the issue gets demarked early, the cynical assholes in D.C. milk it for what it's worth playing to their base (but also led by selective use of information, it works on politicians too) and the pundits play along with the tune.

As for what Democrats are saying, speak for yourself Bill, once again you presume that an entire block of people share your opinion with everyone on the "other side" opposing it in an issue on conscience and two conflicting sides of the same story. It just ain't black & white.

[kallend 1,648]

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>Jeb has already said he won't because it would be illegal.

Let's hope he sticks to that, rather than listen to the right wingers who demand that he break the law. Funny how many conservatives are all law-and-order until a law gets in the way of a cause of theirs - then they have no qualms about advocating criminal action.

I don't think that's a right wing trait at all.

.

Not been paying attention, eh?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[dorbie 0]

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>Jeb has already said he won't because it would be illegal.

Let's hope he sticks to that, rather than listen to the right wingers who demand that he break the law. Funny how many conservatives are all law-and-order until a law gets in the way of a cause of theirs - then they have no qualms about advocating criminal action.

I don't think that's a right wing trait at all.

.

Not been paying attention, eh?

See my last post. Your frustration at being outvoted yet again doesn't make your opponents criminals. It's just more name calling.

[kallend 1,648]

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>Jeb has already said he won't because it would be illegal.

Let's hope he sticks to that, rather than listen to the right wingers who demand that he break the law. Funny how many conservatives are all law-and-order until a law gets in the way of a cause of theirs - then they have no qualms about advocating criminal action.

I don't think that's a right wing trait at all.

.

Not been paying attention, eh?

See my last post. Your frustration at being outvoted yet again doesn't make your opponents criminals. It's just more name calling.

The size of the vote has nothing whatever to do with the actions of the right. Just because 52% preferred them doesn't stop them from being interfering busibodies.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[dorbie 0]

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The size of the vote has nothing whatever to do with the actions of the right. Just because 52% preferred them doesn't stop them from being interfering busibodies.

I don't disagree with that, however that doesn't make their actions illegal, which is the original sweeping accusation you're now trying to ignore.

[Muenkel 0]

It looks like most of you are getting what you believe is right and Teri will most likely pass away very soon. I take comfort in believing she is heading for a much more beautiful place.

Just keep in mind folks that all of our time is going to come someday. Noone can say for sure what judgement if any we will face. I just hope we all choose wisely.

Chris

_________________________________________
Chris

[mnealtx 0]

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Funny how many conservatives are all law-and-order until a law gets in the way of a cause of theirs - then they have no qualms about advocating criminal action.

That shoe seems to fit equally well on the other foot, Bill - as well you know.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 2,434]

>I expect better from you Bill.

Apparently your faith in J Bush is misplaced:


-------------------------------
Police 'showdown' averted

BY CAROL MARBIN MILLER

[email protected]

Hours after a judge ordered that Terri Schiavo was not to be removed from her hospice, a team of state agents were en route to seize her and have her feeding tube reinserted -- but they stopped short when local police told them they would enforce the judge's order, The Herald has learned.

The incident,known only to a few and related to The Herald by three different sources involved in Thursday's events, underscores the intense emotion and murky legal terrain that the Schiavo case has created. It also shows that agencies answering directly to Gov. Jeb Bush had planned to use a wrinkle in Florida law that would have allowed them to legally get around the judge's order. The exception in the law allows public agencies to freeze a judge's order whenever an agency appeals it.

. . .

Participants in the high-stakes test of wills, who spoke with The Herald on the condition of anonymity, said they believed the standoff could ultimately have led to a constitutional crisis and a confrontation between dueling lawmen.

''There were two sets of law enforcement officers facing off, waiting for the other to blink,'' said one official with knowledge of Thursday morning's activities.

In jest, one official said local police discussed ``whether we had enough officers to hold off the National Guard.''

''It was kind of a showdown on the part of the locals and the state police,'' the official said. ``It it was not too long after that Jeb Bush was on TV saying that, evidently, he doesn't have as much authority as people think.''

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/11233240.htm

[Ron 7]

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>I expect better from you Bill.

Apparently your faith in J Bush is misplaced:

What faith in him?

I think he is wrong. I also thought that you would not stoop low...I guess I am wrong twice.

I don't love J or GW Bush. Give me a better canidate and I'll vote for them. If the best you can bring is Bardnick, or Kerry....Well don't blame me for voting for the better canidate.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[dorbie 0]

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>I expect better from you Bill.

Apparently your faith in J Bush is misplaced:


Jeb Bush had planned to use a wrinkle in Florida law that would have allowed them to legally get around the judge's order

More rubbish, I've highlighted the relevant part of the text.

It's pretty sad that a bunch of politically motivated people including you Bill stick their nose in a family's grief, and misrepresent the facts to score political points against a politician you hate because his brother is the President.

You've accused Bush of breaking the law and even your own quote demonstrates he's attempted no such thing.

What standards do you hold yourself to Bill? Why are your baseless and exploitive accusations moral when Bush's legal conduct isn't?

[EBSB52 0]

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>I expect better from you Bill.

Apparently your faith in J Bush is misplaced:


Jeb Bush had planned to use a wrinkle in Florida law that would have allowed them to legally get around the judge's order

More rubbish, I've highlighted the relevant part of the text.

It's pretty sad that a bunch of politically motivated people including you Bill stick their nose in a family's grief, and misrepresent the facts to score political points against a politician you hate because his brother is the President.

You've accused Bush of breaking the law and even your own quote demonstrates he's attempted no such thing.

What standards do you hold yourself to Bill? Why are your baseless and exploitive accusations moral when Bush's legal conduct isn't?

I bet you objected to the Senate Dems filibustering Bush's nominees, right? Wrinkled on yoiur side, worls good - wrinkle the other way, sucks. I'm just astounded that none of the conservatives will answer why they want to support death warrants and then interfere in the Schiavo case, while at the same time be highly angered with gay marriage, yet revoke Terri's husband's right to make the decision in his realtionship that is supposed to be supreme.

[Ron 7]

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I'm just astounded that none of the conservatives will answer why they want to support death warrants and then interfere in the Schiavo case, while at the same time be highly angered with gay marriage, yet revoke Terri's husband's right to make the decision in his realtionship that is supposed to be supreme.

Who has refused to answer? You asked me and I answered...Hell I answer again.

Capital Punishment: I support it. I think if you are proven quilty of a premeditated murder then you deserve to die. If a person make a choice to kill, makes a plan and does it...They should die. No studies have show one way being better than the other. But if you are willing to kill, then you should be willing to die.

Schiavo: I hope they let her die. Her brain is gone.
Florida law allows for verbal contracts. The law has shown 22 times that a husbands wishes over-ride a persons parents. I wish the Bush Brothers had stayed out of it.

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while at the same time be highly angered with gay marriage, yet revoke Terri's husband's right to make the decision in his realtionship that is supposed to be supreme.

Both of these have nothing to due with the other.

But I'll answer just for fun.

Gay marriage. I don't support it. One reason is that gay marriage is a case for the RELIGIONS to decide. Marriage is a principal based in RELIGION, not politics. Politics came into later, but I think they should really step back out. I am not religious, but while I support the right to civil unions (Which we pretty much already have) I don't support marriage. If we allow gays to put their SO on their health care ect, then would I be allowed to put my sister on my health plan? What about my best friend?

Just for fun I'll add Abortion. I support it. I would rather a person not be forced to raise a child they are not ready for. Or worse make the state raise it since they can't afford it. I think abortion as a method of birth control is stupid as hell and wrong.

Got anymore questions?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[dorbie 0]

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I bet you objected to the Senate Dems filibustering Bush's nominees, right? Wrinkled on yoiur side, worls good - wrinkle the other way, sucks. I'm just astounded that none of the conservatives will answer why they want to support death warrants and then interfere in the Schiavo case, while at the same time be highly angered with gay marriage, yet revoke Terri's husband's right to make the decision in his realtionship that is supposed to be supreme.

Not all "conservatives" want any interference. If you can follow a thread you'd see that Jeb was impugned as a criminal (and all conservatives for that matter) because he used the legal means at his disposal. It was pure indoctrinated garbage.

I don't want any interference despite the attempts to misrepresent my views and the views of a heck of a lot of conservatives. You're so used to slinging mud along the party lines you see on the TV you're incapable of accepting independent thought.

I just read that the leader of the local Democratic party just resigned because his party was doing nothing to help Terri. There's another peg that doesn't fit into the hole you've prepared for him.

Despite your attempts draw the debate down party lines, the reality is significantly different.

As for you polluting this discussion with your non sequitur about fillibustering judicial nominees, it merely underlines your attempts to exploit this tragedy for political ends.

[rehmwa 2]

Dorbie - i've stopped trying - some of these guys are just more comfortable with the little stereotyped boxes they like to put the races and the parties and the genders, etc into. Apparently there is no such thing as positions on individual issues, it's all or nothing/with them or against them. But once you disagree with one issue you are obviously wrong on all other issues even if you don't have any position on other issues.

On topic - personally, I hope Teri will be allowed to rest in peace. Those that mean well and are trying to save that walking corpse, good for them for trying to do what they think is the right thing and trying to follow law in doing it, but I think they are wrong in this instance - they think I'm wrong. But they are distinct from nutjobs murdering doctors to stop abortions (clinic bombings) or nutjobs murdering lumberjacks to save trees ('spiking'). If they cross that line, then I'll take away the 'good for them' comment. they haven't yet, they've only stated their stance in public and dared to disagree with the (ready for the stereotype?) left wing morality police.

As far as the husband is concerned, the more 'facts' I hear, the more it sounds like he's trying to do the right thing as far as he is concerned. The badmouthing appears to be from nutjobs making stuff up.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[wmw999 2,149]

Here here.

The more you put people into boxes based on your preconceptions, the smaller the chance of seeing that those boxes are crap.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rehmwa 2]

"crap boxes"

thanks, I will use that in the future

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,434]

>It's pretty sad that a bunch of politically motivated people including you Bill . . .

Actually, from the beginning my position has been to allow this couple to make their own decisions, rather than have the US government step in and decide what is best for them. It is unfortunate that so many politicians have used this as a political bandstand.

>You've accused Bush of breaking the law and even your own quote
>demonstrates he's attempted no such thing.

He attempted to grab her in defiance of a court order due to a loophole in the law. His forces would have been resisted by the police. It is fortunate they showed more common sense than he did, and that they disregarded his instructions.

>What standards do you hold yourself to Bill?

None you would understand, I'm afraid.

[Jimbo 0]

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>What standards do you hold yourself to Bill?

None you would understand, I'm afraid.

Wow. There's an insult if ever there was one.

Nice job, Bill.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[Ron 7]

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>What standards do you hold yourself to Bill?

None you would understand, I'm afraid.

Nice personal attack Bill!!!!

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[SkyDekker 1,145]

I feel like JK, pointing fingers yelling, he did it, he did it.......

[Ron 7]

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I feel like JK, pointing fingers yelling, he did it, he did it.......

Feel free to feel anyway you want.....Only you have control over your own feelings.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[SkyDekker 1,145]

don't you have a pedestal to go and stand on somewhere Ron?