I reminded both my boys again tonight what I wanted and did not want when it was time for me to go. They both understood, and asked that I do the same to them.
Yes, I have a living will, but I just wanted to make sure they knew. I'll be seeing my parents in a month and I will go over what I want with them again. I will also ask them what they expect from me.
What I see that has cause the main problem here was that Teri's parents stepped in when they should have butted out. Terri was married and I'm sure she shared her thoughts and feelings with her husband.
Yes, I have a living will, but I just wanted to make sure they knew. I'll be seeing my parents in a month and I will go over what I want with them again. I will also ask them what they expect from me.
What I see that has cause the main problem here was that Teri's parents stepped in when they should have butted out. Terri was married and I'm sure she shared her thoughts and feelings with her husband.
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey
Ron 7
QuoteWho else to turn to when you need something illegal done?
I expect better from you Bill.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
EBSB52 0
QuoteQuote
This has been the most egregious example of overstepping constitutional bounds by the executive branch that I think I've ever seen.
For once, the judiciary seem to be doing the job that they are meant to, in this case protecting the states against an overt assault of blatant federalism.
It is especially mindblowing when GWB sais that the "executive and
legistative brach have to err on the side of life". These are exactly
the two branches of government that no frigging buisness
intervening in an individual legal case. We are governed by
people who don't appear to have the first clue about the most
basic principes of government - separation of powers, what each
branch is stands for, due process, etc. It's probably no accident that
the guy occasionally invents the "administrative branch" and other
curiosities. In his words - that's "Extra sad".
With this amount of overstepping of competence the judges circled
the wagons and protected their branch - there was no way any of
them - no matter what of political couleur - could have given in to
this BS.
Next to the violation of sepration of power and due process I'd find
the violation of state rights the lesser evil (evil nonetheless).
It'd be interesting to see though if this will create a split between
the "process conservatives" and the "social conservatives"
Cheers, T
It is especially mindblowing when GWB sais that the "executive and
legistative brach have to err on the side of life". These are exactly
the two branches of government that no frigging buisness
intervening in an individual legal case.
Exactly, and on a related note, a maggot like Bush that rejected not 1 death warrant while governor of Texas, investigated maybe 1 or 2 at most, what's with this, "err onthe side of life" total maggot bullshit? His argumentational skills are as cogent as his English skills. Does he think Americans are as stupid as he is with as much hard drive space?
It's probably no accident that
the guy occasionally invents the "administrative branch" and other
curiosities. In his words - that's "Extra sad".
On the Bushisms calemdar - very sad
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
and funny
. Next to the violation of sepration of power and due process I'd find
the violation of state rights the lesser evil (evil nonetheless).
It'd be interesting to see though if this will create a split between
the "process conservatives" and the "social conservatives"
Why? Florida is part of the US gov - remeber 2000?
...if this will create a split between
the "process conservatives" and the "social conservatives"
IS that fiscal and moral consservatives, or another way to dichotomize the party? Just curious how you're splitting them.
ltdiver 3
QuoteIt is different because despite her lack of brain activity, she looks awake and aware even though she is not...If a person is in a coma and unconcious, people would not question the idea of pulling the plug, and neither would I, especially if the wishes of the individual were known.
Yes, it is different. One is brain 'dead', irreversibly (Teri). The other is not and perhaps has a normal EEG (unconscious or coma). Very different.
Reflexive action, even with the sleep/wake intervals Teri has, does -not- mean she has higher brain activity. Don't let it fool you.
ltdiver
Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon
billvon 2,463
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>It is different because despite her lack of brain activity, she looks
>awake and aware even though she is not...
I agree that it seems different. She looks different than most people who have no brain activity, and thus we want to believe she's really OK. But in reality it is no different. She is in a coma with her eyes open and her brainstem working; all the things that made her a person are still gone.
I think one of the tragedies of this is that there are people out there who are telling whatever lies they can to "win". There are people saying she's fine, that she can talk and laugh and eat. They know it's not true, but if they can get enough people to believe, they can win - Teri and her husband be damned. And that means that well-meaning people, people who would not question the decision to terminate life support on a brain-dead relative, support the opposite position because of what they've been told.
>No, I would make him well aware of the fact that her life is ending,
> and his seems to be beginning anew.
He has had 15 years to realize that. That's longer than I've known my wife, most of my friends, heck - that's longer than I've known any skydiver, period. His life without her is not beginning anew, it's been going on for 15 years.
It would have been the easiest thing in the world for him to divorce her, to get her out of his life. Instead he has hung on, fighting battle after battle to fulfill her final wishes. And I admire him for that. I am lucky to have a wife that would fight for me in that way.
>On the news earlier today, I heard a rather wise suggestion: sit
> the "husband" or Micheal Shiavo and Terri's parents in a room and
>have them figure it out...
Again, I think that's a great idea, but they've had 15 years to do that. You can raise a kid in 15 years, and if you can't agree on treatment of a woman whose condition has not changed in that time, you never will.
>Micheal Shiavo might have alterior motives for wanting his wife to
>die instead of getting a divorce...
And her parents may be deranged enough to want the body of their daughter kept alive so they don't have to deal with her death, so it's easier on them emotionally. But neither of us really know what's going on there, do we?
>awake and aware even though she is not...
I agree that it seems different. She looks different than most people who have no brain activity, and thus we want to believe she's really OK. But in reality it is no different. She is in a coma with her eyes open and her brainstem working; all the things that made her a person are still gone.
I think one of the tragedies of this is that there are people out there who are telling whatever lies they can to "win". There are people saying she's fine, that she can talk and laugh and eat. They know it's not true, but if they can get enough people to believe, they can win - Teri and her husband be damned. And that means that well-meaning people, people who would not question the decision to terminate life support on a brain-dead relative, support the opposite position because of what they've been told.
>No, I would make him well aware of the fact that her life is ending,
> and his seems to be beginning anew.
He has had 15 years to realize that. That's longer than I've known my wife, most of my friends, heck - that's longer than I've known any skydiver, period. His life without her is not beginning anew, it's been going on for 15 years.
It would have been the easiest thing in the world for him to divorce her, to get her out of his life. Instead he has hung on, fighting battle after battle to fulfill her final wishes. And I admire him for that. I am lucky to have a wife that would fight for me in that way.
>On the news earlier today, I heard a rather wise suggestion: sit
> the "husband" or Micheal Shiavo and Terri's parents in a room and
>have them figure it out...
Again, I think that's a great idea, but they've had 15 years to do that. You can raise a kid in 15 years, and if you can't agree on treatment of a woman whose condition has not changed in that time, you never will.
>Micheal Shiavo might have alterior motives for wanting his wife to
>die instead of getting a divorce...
And her parents may be deranged enough to want the body of their daughter kept alive so they don't have to deal with her death, so it's easier on them emotionally. But neither of us really know what's going on there, do we?
Keith 0
QuoteMicheal Shiavo might have alterior motives for wanting his wife to die instead of getting a divorce...though that is sickening and terrible to think about, I think if enough money is on the line, he would do what he wanted to keep it...
What a sad cynical thing to say. I can't imagine any amount of money would be worth the torment and agony he's gone though for the last 15 years.
Keith
Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville
Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville
billvon 2,463
>I think that Micheal Shiavo should have had to take the tube
>out himself and sit with her everyday and watch her die...
Side note - he has been with her since last friday and is watching her die.
>out himself and sit with her everyday and watch her die...
Side note - he has been with her since last friday and is watching her die.
And to answer the question "what would I do?"...I'd pull the plugs and tubes personally if I had to. I never (and I do repeat never) want to exist in a condition like that (notice I didn't say live). No machines will ever keep me alive, if I have no chance of recovery. And I would do the same for any family member....
The sole intention, is learning to fly.Condition grounded, but determined to try.Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies.Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit.
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