ChasingBlueSky 0 #1 December 30, 2004 FBI Probes Laser Beam Directed at Cockpit CLEVELAND - Authorities are investigating a mysterious laser beam that was directed into the cockpit of a commercial jet traveling at more than 8,500 feet. The beam appeared Monday when the plane was about 15 miles from Cleveland Hopkins International Airport, the FBI said. "It was in there for several seconds like (the plane) was being tracked," FBI agent Robert Hawk said. The pilot was able to land the plane, and air traffic controllers used radar to determine the laser came from a residential area in suburban Warrensville Heights. Hawk said the laser had to have been fairly sophisticated to track a plane traveling at that altitude. Authorities had no other leads, and are investigating whether the incident was a prank or if there was a more sinister motive. In Colorado Springs, Colo., Monday night, two pilots reported green pulsating laser lights shined into their cockpits. Both the passenger plane and a cargo plane landed without problems. Police dispatched patrol cars and a helicopter to a neighborhood to investigate but found nothing. FBI agents were continuing to conduct interviews, agency spokeswoman Monique Kelso said. Federal officials have expressed concern about terrorists using laser beams, which can distract or temporarily blind a pilot. A memo sent to law enforcement agencies recently by the FBI and the Homeland Security Department says there is evidence that terrorists have explored using lasers as weapons. Authorities said there is no specific intelligence indicating al-Qaida or other groups might use lasers in the United States. In September a pilot for Delta Air Lines reported an eye injury from a laser beam shone into the cockpit during a landing approach in Salt Lake City. The incident occurred about 5 miles from the airport. The plane landed safely. Lasers are commonly used in a number of industries and are featured in outdoor light shows. The FAA mandates that laser light shows must register their locations and the lights cannot be directed above 3,000 feet. Lasers are also often used by construction companies to line up foundations. Interfering with a commercial flight is a felony punishable by up to five years in prison._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #2 December 30, 2004 SHIT - There goes the legaility of owning my favorite cat toy.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #3 December 30, 2004 QuoteSHIT - There goes the legaility of owning my favorite cat toy. Your cat toy goes above 3000 feet??? Well, you could just file a NOTAM every time you wanted to play with fluffy._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #4 December 30, 2004 QuoteQuoteSHIT - There goes the legaility of owning my favorite cat toy. Your cat toy goes above 3000 feet??? Well, you could just file a NOTAM every time you wanted to play with fluffy. I guess that would depend on that guy in russia that owns the clouds - like I said - if he would keep them all out of my area we would have "Unlimited" visibility - so yes - it would.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #5 December 30, 2004 So you are saying that you play with your pussy in freefall??_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #6 December 30, 2004 Quote Mini-Me....quit humping the laser!!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #7 December 30, 2004 Um - no - I was referring to a pocket laser that I flash around the house and laugh as George the Cat runs around an tries to pounce on it. But I like the way you think.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #8 December 30, 2004 air traffic controllers used radar to determine the laser came from a residential area in suburban Warrensville Heights.*** I know little about radar, but can it detect focused light?? RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #9 December 30, 2004 Quoteair traffic controllers used radar to determine the laser came from a residential area in suburban Warrensville Heights.*** I know little about radar, but can it detect focused light?? Roy The only thing I know about Radar is that he was my favorite character on that show._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #10 December 30, 2004 Quoteand air traffic controllers used radar to determine the laser came from a residential area in suburban Warrensville Heights. Ok I saw your post about MASH....But I don't see how radar (RAdio Detection And Ranging) can detect a laser (Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. Where is Bill when you need him? QuoteThe FAA mandates that laser light shows must register their locations and the lights cannot be directed above 3,000 feet OK other than limiting the power....Light will not just stop at 3 grand. Again...Bill?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #11 December 30, 2004 This exact scenario crossed my mind when landing at a certain airport (I won't name it). The approach is over easily accessible terrain, and is rather concerning. I remember looking out the window and thinking "damn, I hope the pilot feels good today, and is being really gentle," followed by the thought that a SAM could easily be brought there and used without much issue, and escape routes were many. I didn't think about lasers, but that would be very easy to use at this particular airport, because one little distraction would be horrendous. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #12 December 30, 2004 QuoteThis exact scenario crossed my mind when landing at a certain airport (I won't name it). The approach is over easily accessible terrain, and is rather concerning. I remember looking out the window and thinking "damn, I hope the pilot feels good today, and is being really gentle," followed by the thought that a SAM could easily be brought there and used without much issue, and escape routes were many. I didn't think about lasers, but that would be very easy to use at this particular airport, because one little distraction would be horrendous. Ciels- Michele The same could be said for any major airport dropped into the middle of a city. If you sat in my apartment you would see just how close those 757's get to my neighborhood (I can watch approach from my couch). The GA aircraft and the National Guard choppers all go over my apartment now._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #13 December 30, 2004 I have jets passing over my work a little above 200 feet up, I've often wanted to see if I could throw a rock up and hit a 737 or so. Bonus points if I hit the Pipers right? Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #14 December 30, 2004 Think "Sling Shot"I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #15 December 30, 2004 In some cases Radar can detect lasers.... Everyday I pick up the sunrise and sunset on the 6 Doppler radars I have here at work. There is also Lidar which would be characterized as a radar. One must realize that we are talking about the the same spectrum.... all light and radio and microwaves are part of the same array of information, just in different frequencies. Lasers are focused, but they may give off microwave radiation in an non-unidirctional fashion. I am not up to speed on laser radiation, but I do know there is ambient radiation from a laser. Chris ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrJones 0 #16 December 30, 2004 this news report is(if reported correctly) is a bit scary. If the pilots say that the laser was scanned in the cockpit for any length of time it is really scary. The only lasers strong enough would be class IIIB or stronger. I work in the entertainment lighting business and a Class IIIb laser (Concert, Raves etc) could reach and be seen at 8000 feet but would be difficult if not impossible to track a plane, let alone the cockpit. That being said it is likely to be a Class 4 laser. these are very powerful machines used in many industries and are often built with calibration devices for very precise movement. These same lasers are used for cutting steel, drilling etc. This was no prank by some kids. I'm not saying terrorists either but a bit disturbing. NUR ZUM SPASS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jkm2500 0 #17 December 30, 2004 THis sounds like something out of a Tom Clancy novel....oh, wait it is something out of a Tom Clancy novel. That guy is almost prophetic in the scenarios that he comes up with, like a jet flying into a building....The primary purpose of the Armed Forces is to prepare for and to prevail in combat should the need arise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #18 December 30, 2004 or terrorist just enjoy reading Clancy Novels because it gives them good Ideas ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penniless 0 #19 December 30, 2004 QuoteIn some cases Radar can detect lasers.... Everyday I pick up the sunrise and sunset on the 6 Doppler radars I have here at work. There is also Lidar which would be characterized as a radar. One must realize that we are talking about the the same spectrum.... all light and radio and microwaves are part of the same array of information, just in different frequencies. Lasers are focused, but they may give off microwave radiation in an non-unidirctional fashion. I am not up to speed on laser radiation, but I do know there is ambient radiation from a laser. Chris I would venture a guess that the pilot told ATC the bearing and estimated distance of the source from his current position and ATC just figured it out from there. I don't think anything ATC has can pick up a laser directly. They have a hard enough time seeing planes squawking 1200. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
storm1977 0 #20 December 30, 2004 yes and No..... The TMU/ TMC's of the ATC have plenty of time if using and Nexrad, however, most of their weath radar input is from ASR9 which is a fan beam radar. One would need a pencil beam TDWR to detect it. It is possible, but not probable. With that said the CWSU dept of ATC in the Center or TRACON could have been the one detecting it since they only deal with wx(weather) and no AT. ----------------------------------------------------- Sometimes it is more important to protect LIFE than Liberty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #21 December 31, 2004 One more thing to help me sleep at night. Thanks! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #22 December 31, 2004 Next time you watch it pay attention to his left hand there is some birth defect it looks like a crab claw. I like watching it to see how they hide it. He is usually holding a clipboard or something. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,433 #23 December 31, 2004 >I know little about radar, but can it detect focused light?? Short answer is no. If a pilot reported a laser hit, though, radar could be used to locate where the plane was at the time of the "hit." If the pilot remembered where in the cockpit the laser illuminated, or where the laser seemed to come from, trigonometry could provide a rough estimate of location given location and altitude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cloudseeker2001 0 #24 December 31, 2004 I think it came from a Saddam mobile unit! Nonetheless, whoever is using this thing may have built a rocket to go with it! What kind of guidance system does a Stinger use? I know the US has lost a number of those over the years. "Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance, others mean and rueful of the western dream" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #25 December 31, 2004 QuoteI have jets passing over my work a little above 200 feet up, I've often wanted to see if I could throw a rock up and hit a 737 or so. Bonus points if I hit the Pipers right? Do I get bous points for hitting a DC-10 with my hand? I'll be right back. Done....What did I win?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
