Guest #26 December 31, 2004 QuoteI think it came from a Saddam mobile unit! Nonetheless, whoever is using this thing may have built a rocket to go with it! What kind of guidance system does a Stinger use? I know the US has lost a number of those over the years. The Stinger has what is essentially a scaled-down version of the seeker head in the AIM-9 Sidewinder. The infrared seeker is a gas-cooled multi-element detector/discriminator that works in tandem with a high-speed processor to generate a "heat signature" of whatever it has been locked onto. Once locked, the multi-element detector will feed information to the processor which in turn supplies signals to the control-surface actuators to keep the heat signature at the center of the detector head's field of view. Yes, some Stingers were missing from the Soviet-Afghan War, but everything about Stingers is high-maintenance, delicate, and fragile, especially the seeker head. IIRC, the Stinger has an Argon-cooled seeker, among other touchy things (propellants with a short shelf-life, unusual power requirements, etc.), so although there are some missing, in all likelihood they're in the back of the tent at an arms bazaar in some third-world shit-hole, with no takers. Why bother with something that takes a lot of TLC and a skilled operator (and how many times are you going to get to practice using it?) when there are easier ways to bring down jets, like hijacking or simply shooting an RPG on takeoff or final? Any Stingers that are out there aren't operational, and even if they were, they're more valuable for the reward money they would bring in, which would enable the R-Hs/RIFWs/T-Ws to buy the toys they really prefer, like AKs, RPGs and Semtex, which are inexpensive, readily obtainable, and have a much shallower learning curve (this is important when the only thing your troops know how to read is a so-called "holy book"). This incident with the laser, however, is interesting to say the least. As was mentioned elsewhere, this wasn't your garden-variety cat-teaser. mh . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gkc1436 3 #27 December 31, 2004 ..... think about this....the angle of the airplane, the angle of the cockpit windows..... to get a laser into the cockpit, wouldnt you have to be at least level or above the target???? hmmmmm more fear mongering at our expense.... who needs coffee....just hookit low that will wake you up Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #28 December 31, 2004 Not exactly - otherwise the pilots could never see the ground either ... but would have to be a LONG way away... (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #29 December 31, 2004 Quote(this is important when the only thing your troops know how to read is a so-called "holy book"). I read something somewhere that most of them are functionally illiterate, and have to rely on their imams to read it to them - don't know if that's true or not.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tf15 0 #30 December 31, 2004 QuoteNot exactly - otherwise the pilots could never see the ground either ... but would have to be a LONG way away... Not necessarily. Most planes I've flown have good visibility down to the side, but poor over the nose. Three times is enemy action Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #31 December 31, 2004 True, but even if you are looking sideways from the cockpit at the ground, you're still in line of site of the ground from the cockpit ... if you see what I mean (so, if you can see the ground, someone[thing] on the ground can see you - thus you wouldn't need to be at the same level or above is what I'm suggesting) Happy New Year (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #32 January 2, 2005 And here comes the predictable over-reaction... David Banach was showing his daughter a common laser pointer that he had purchased on the Internet... "At one moment he was in the backyard playing with his daughter, and 10 minutes later 12 police cars descended and he was whisked away by authorities and interrogated until 4 a.m." Banach was taken from his home Friday by state, local and federal authorities investigating the shining of green lasers onto aircraft flying over the region... Full story: Daily Record Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccurley 0 #33 January 2, 2005 Not quite as inoccent as the daily record whould have it appear. Try this story on ANN http://www.aero-news.net Second story from top attempt at clicky http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=5b3d6a3a-4d24-4635-97bb-e68c2f5467a0& It appears he did point it at a Cessna and the idiot pointed it at a police helicopter sent out to look for the laser!!Watch my video Fat Women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #34 January 3, 2005 QuoteIt appears he did point it at a Cessna and the idiot pointed it at a police helicopter sent out to look for the laser!! I'd put him in the category of an idiot, rather than a criminal. Meanwhile, I've discovered that laser pointers are used by amateur astronomers, to point out constellations to others, and to "zero" their telescopes. It shouldn't be long now before astronomy buffs start getting arrested for pointing lasers up at the night sky... http://www.meridiantelescopes.com/detlaser.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,427 #35 January 3, 2005 >It shouldn't be long now before astronomy buffs start getting arrested >for pointing lasers up at the night sky... I suspect that will happen around the time the first crash occurs from a pilot being accidentally blinded. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #36 January 3, 2005 Quote>It shouldn't be long now before astronomy buffs start getting arrested for pointing lasers up at the night sky... < I suspect that will happen around the time the first crash occurs from a pilot being accidentally blinded. Then the politicians will respond with Bills in Congress to ban the private ownership of laser pointers, yada yada yada... "We must rid our streets of these deadly high-intensity assault-flashlights!" Legions of executives will have to go back to giving presentations with a pointy stick. Cats across the land will no longer be entertained with moving red dots. Shooters will actually have to aim their guns. Oh the horror! Maybe the cops should respond with as much interest to drivers who won't dim their high beams on the highway at night... That's just as blindingly deadly. Home laser pointers don't have enough power to produce permanent blindness. It's only affect would be like having a flash bulb go off in front of you - temporary and brief. And the ability to maintain aim on a distant moving object in the sky is just about nil. Any "hit" on a pilot's eyeball is going to be blind luck. I think this rash of incidents is just a bunch of people who got laser pointers for xmas and are out waving them around to play with them. The media has overblown the issue, as usual. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,427 #37 January 3, 2005 >Maybe the cops should respond with as much interest to drivers who >won't dim their high beams on the highway at night... If it caused bus crashes, they would certainly become very interested in drivers who leave their high beams on. As usual, the issue isn't the tool itself, it's the misuse thereof. Right now you can buy even a Class IV laser without much restriction. If lasers get used (or are carelessly allowed) to blind pilots, then that will change - and may even affect the Class II lasers that people use to play with their cats. It's up to laser users to make sure that doesn't happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #38 January 4, 2005 Are you people blind??? It's AAAAAAAAALIENS!!!!! Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #39 January 4, 2005 TMU/ TMC's - ATC - Nexrad - ASR9 - fan beam radar - pencil beam TDWR - CWSU - TRACON *** ????????????????? am I the only unfortunate illiterate that has absolutely no Idea what you just said??? ok( I got air traffic controller )RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccurley 0 #40 January 5, 2005 http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=23cfbf10-48cc-4043-8dd1-816008ad32df&Watch my video Fat Women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,427 #41 January 5, 2005 >The only lasers strong enough would be class IIIB or stronger. Well, first off, the laser has to be of a wavelength to be visible. A near-infrared laser might well blind someone but the radiation is not perceived as light, so it would be difficult to identify as a laser. Their eyes would just hurt and they'd lose a portion of their vision. Most industrial class-IV lasers are infrared (like CO2 lasers, which are pretty common.) Second, because of the excellent collimation of the beam, power doesn't fall off very quickly with lasers. You can easily see a class II laser (laser pointer type) many miles away. The trick is pointing them accurately, but with even a moderate amount of care (i.e. a sight) you should be able to sweep something a mile or so away and get occasional 'hits' on someone's eyes. And if you sweep them accurately (say, with a raster scan or a lissajous scan) they can be visible over a significant area. Lasers used to operate on the "big sky" theory, basically that any laser pointed into the sky wasn't going to hit anything. As lasers become more common as pointing, leveling, measuring etc tools that may change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #42 January 5, 2005 Quotehttp://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=23cfbf10-48cc-4043-8dd1-816008ad32df& The guy is an idiot, but he doesn't deserve to be charged as a terrorist: David Banach faces charges under the federal government's Patriot Act. Banach was arraigned before a federal magistrate on Tuesday and freed on $100,000 bond. "One would think they would want to devote their time and resources to prosecuting real terrorists, not people like my client," Banach's lawyer told the Associated Press after the court proceeding. She said she was angry that the government had charged Banach under the Patriot Act - generally used to prosecute terrorists. painted her client as "your average guy, a family man" who was simply playing around with a handheld pointer. Some prosecuter wants to make a name for himself by making an example out of this poor sucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,427 #43 January 5, 2005 >The guy is an idiot, but he doesn't deserve to be charged as a terrorist: What, so now you support terrorists? Just kidding. This was the inevitable result of the Patriot act and all the various other minor little sacrifices of our rights to gain some perceived security after 9/11. We now have two justice systems - one that follows constitutional controls and one that does whatever it wants, all in the name of fighting terror of course. We're crazy if we think that zealous law-enforcement types will not discover a way to apply the 'new' justice system to the guys they really want to get - like these terrorists who try to blind pilots with their handheld weapons. Think about how useful RICO became. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #44 January 5, 2005 QuoteThe guy is an idiot, but he doesn't deserve to be charged as a terrorist: Why not? I agree with you. But how do you then determine who should or shouldn't be when two parties commit the same crime? Religion? Skin color? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccurley 0 #45 January 5, 2005 The guy is an idiot, but he doesn't deserve to be charged as a terrorist:*** I agree, but a good wrist slapping could be in order if for no other reason then to discourage other idiots from distracting pilots which could have serious side efects!Watch my video Fat Women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,141 #46 January 5, 2005 QuoteWhy not? I agree with you. But how do you then determine who should or shouldn't be when two parties commit the same crime? Religion? Skin color? Exactly, this is exactly what the law was intended to do. Go after those who interfere with mass transportation. Unfortunately this poor soul was not a terrorist, but he did break the law. Do the crime, you have to do the time. I am sure he will agree that America has not given up any freedoms since 9/11 and consequent legislation. On top of that he lied to a federal agent.....a federal agent no less. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #47 January 5, 2005 QuoteThis was the inevitable result of the Patriot act... I agree that many laws enacted with good intent have been subverted by overzealous law enforcement. I hope this DA loses this case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,141 #48 January 5, 2005 QuoteI agree that many laws enacted with good intent have been subverted by overzealous law enforcement. I hope this DA loses this case. Like being sentenced to 50 years in jail for stealing $153 worth of videos for your children to watch? Just because it was your third strike. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #49 January 5, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe guy is an idiot, but he doesn't deserve to be charged as a terrorist: Why not? I agree with you. But how do you then determine who should or shouldn't be when two parties commit the same crime? Religion? Skin color? Intent. The guy was stupid, but had no intention of causing a plane crash, and no harm was done. That makes it a minor affair, in my mind. The way the law is being used in this case reminds me of the many silly incidents we hear about with schools which have enacted zero-tolerance policies. Like treating a lunchroom butter knife as a weapon, causing expulsion from school. Just because a guy is pointing a laser at the sky, doesn't mean that he should be prosecuted as a terrorist. Amateur astronomers should be afraid. Very afraid... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #50 January 5, 2005 QuoteIntent. The guy was stupid, but had no intention of causing a plane crash Says him. If a 22 year old, recent immigtran from Jordan said the same thing, would you buy it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
