new jumper gear suggestions esp. Vortex & Volt & Intrudair

[Kiwiskydiving 0]

Hi there this is my virgin post
I'm a new jumper in the pursuit of my A license. I've been looking around (dealers, chutingstar, RSM...) and asking instructors for advice. I know most of yall will suggest used gear and I understand its pros and cons, but I'm gonna go all out and get myself new stuff. I intend to keep this container for a few years at least, and my first main will already be at 1+ WL so I think buying new gear is worth it. New gear also gives me the peace of mind

I'm interested in Parachute System's Vortex container and Volt Main canopy. I however can't find any constructive reviews of them on dz.com or the web. They seem decent and relatively cheap compared to other common brands. Do yall have a chance to fly them or what're your thoughts on them? I'd really appreciate any input.

For AAD, I'm getting the m2 AAD. As for the jumpsuit, since I'm new I don't want to rush into FF, so I'm getting myself a new custom RW suit. I really like the design of Intrudair's RW-comp suit, but I can't find reviews of it either. Again, I'd like to know what yall think of Intrudair or my decision in general.

The price of new gear isn't the major concern here, just wanna note that. Thanks in advance!

P.S. how useful are canopy alarms? It's hard to find an audible that has both canopy alarms and freefall alarms and log jumps in detail all at the same time .

My skydiving blog: www.kiwiskydiving.com /// youtube channel: kiwiskydiving

[lyosha 46]

Kiwiskydiving

I intend to keep this container for a few years at least, and my first main will already be at 1+ WL

Don't do that. I did it, and it really hurt to hit the ground the couple of times I made rookie mistakes. WL at ~1 hurts a lot less.

Vortex seems like a modern enough container where for a first container it'll be plenty good. Pretty much any container that isn't a racer will do the job, really. I went with a wings. Because after coupon I had my first rig for $1400. If price of new gear isn't a concern, might as well go with something more popular like a Javelin.

No clue about the canopy, do it the proper way and request a demo and see if you like it. All you're gonna find on here are fanboys that fly the gear they fly because they really like it better than all the other gear out there. You really can't go wrong with a Sabre2 though. They fly well and actually have resell value. You don't see a lot of Volts for sale because not a lot of people want them, and you're gonna have some issues downsizing.

Canopy alarms are useful. There's a few audibles that have all the things you require, do some more research.

[Kiwiskydiving 0]

My exit weight is ~190lb, so a Volt 185 will put me at 1.03 WL.

I think Javelin, Vector, G4 etc are too pricey compared to a Vortex. Getting skyhook and all other bells and whistles on a Vortex cost $700+ less.

Thanks for your input !

My skydiving blog: www.kiwiskydiving.com /// youtube channel: kiwiskydiving

[councilman24 36]

You've already made some bad decisions. And price obviously IS a concern or you wouldn't be picking one of the least popular containers because of its price and the least versatile AAD. Buy a good used rig with a bigger main, planning to pass it on soon. You certainly don't need a comp rw jumpsuit to learn how to fly, and slide in grass.

Or as I expect you will do what you've already decided. As for that piece of mind from new gear, YOU will be the final quality.control inspector to see if.it was made right.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Kiwiskydiving 0]

Thanks for your advice! I buy from parachute systems and MarS because I think they accomplish the same job as well as the much more expensive ones do. While price isn't the major concern here, a couple hundred can buy me tens of jump tickets .

I agree with you that a RW comp suit is an overkill. But cheap custom RW suits are ~$250 with booties and all that so I don't see why not spend an extra $80 to get a suit that's top of the line. If I rip something on landing I'll just send it back for repair.

And yes I'm considering a bigger canopy. Maybe a 210 that loads me at 0.9. I'll definitely keep that in mind.

My skydiving blog: www.kiwiskydiving.com /// youtube channel: kiwiskydiving

[mathrick 2]

Kiwiskydiving

As for the jumpsuit, since I'm new I don't want to rush into FF, so I'm getting myself a new custom RW suit. I really like the design of Intrudair's RW-comp suit, but I can't find reviews of it either. Again, I'd like to know what yall think of Intrudair or my decision in general.

I have Intrudair RW. They're inexpensive, pretty, fly very nicely, and the customer service is good, but durability is a problem. The suits simply don't last, and it's an observation based on more than just my own.

P.S. Ease up on the emotes.

"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

[Kiwiskydiving 0]

Care to elaborate how the suits break apart? And did you get a chance to compare your suit to the comp version? Would that be a more durable suit? Thanks a ton!

My skydiving blog: www.kiwiskydiving.com /// youtube channel: kiwiskydiving

[Joellercoaster 6]

Kiwiskydiving

And yes I'm considering a bigger canopy. Maybe a 210 that loads me at 0.9. I'll definitely keep that in mind.

Excellent, excellent call.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[Pobrause 6]

I own one pair of swoop pants from Intrudair. They survived a crumbled femur, some ruptured crucial ligaments and meniscus and about 800 jumps in total, half of them sliding in downwind on my but and still look like they would do it all over again without complaining.

Also I own a comp freefly suit from Intrudair that survived about 150 jumps on it and two tunnel hours. Still looks like new.

Additionally quite a few of my friends own and jump Intrudair clothing quite regularly and I've yet to see a suit blow up.

Most of these suites were bought within the last three years so for older models it might have been different.
I also haven't seen their RW-model so can't say aything about it.

Regarding Vortex containers I'd highly reccomend them as an inexpensive alternative to the big 5. Nothing wrong with them, build quality is awesome, better than some wings containers I've seen recently, correspondence with the manufacturer works flawlessly, it's TSO'd and Skyhook approved and rigging them is quite easy. Of course it lacks quite a bit of the finetuning that went into modern javelins but thats the $1200 price difference.
I'm actually thinking about buying one as a second rig for swooping

for the record I'm not sponsored by any of these companies

-------------------------------------------------------

To absent friends

[Deimian 43]

My experience with intrudair is similar. The RW comp suit is on par, if not better, with Parasport or Sonic. Very, very well made suit. The only thing I don't like is the crotch area. The fabric is a bit too stiff. So much that it pushes down a bit the leg straps, and my balls kind of get trapped on that area. I've never busted a nut with it, but I don't find it conformable. A bit more spandex on that area would help. But it could be simply a matter of fitting.

[degeneration 5]

councilman24

...you wouldn't be picking ... the least versatile AAD.

If this can be answered easily without turning this thread into another AAD wars thread, how is the M2 the least versatile AAD?

Sky Switches - Affordable stills camera tongue switches and conversion adaptors, supporting various brands of camera (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic).

[gowlerk 1,915]

degeneration

***...you wouldn't be picking ... the least versatile AAD.

If this can be answered easily without turning this thread into another AAD wars thread, how is the M2 the least versatile AAD?

I can answer that without malice. The M2 lacks the ability for the user to switch between student, expert, and tandem modes. Although it does allow you to activate a swoop (speed) mode in the expert version, or in the case of a student version it can be activated in expert mode.

Also it's activation altitude is not adjustable, although it does allow for setting an offset between take off, and DZ elevation. The three currently available brands of AAD handle these issues in different manners. In at least one case there are different models with different capabilities for flexibility.

For the average sport jumper they all have enough flexibility to do the job. If you are a DZO, or running a student or tandem program you may have different needs in an AAD.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[mathrick 2]

Quote

Care to elaborate how the suits break apart? And did you get a chance to compare your suit to the comp version? Would that be a more durable suit? Thanks a ton!

I didn't have a chance to compare them to an RWC, so no idea there. My own suit got a gash on the arm in one of the layers, even though I can't recall any event that'd lead to it happening.

We've ordered a tonne (around 15) student suits, plus people ordering their individual RW and freefly suits. 2 or 3 of the student ones had their zippers start falling apart within ~3 months.

At least one person's DBC freefly suit started developing problems very soon after purchase, with threads and fabric thinning all over the place. Granted, he was tunnel-flying in it, but it was also the very first time he used it and it immediately had problems.

Lastly, my own suit came with wrong washing instructions. I washed it once in 30° with no problems, then on second wash I went with 40° as the label states. This resulted in all the white parts getting dyed from the booties. Except the cordura butt, so now I have a classy diaper there.

"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

[mathrick 2]

Pobrause

I own one pair of swoop pants from Intrudair. They survived a crumbled femur, some ruptured crucial ligaments and meniscus and about 800 jumps in total, half of them sliding in downwind on my but and still look like they would do it all over again without complaining.

Also I own a comp freefly suit from Intrudair that survived about 150 jumps on it and two tunnel hours. Still looks like new.

Additionally quite a few of my friends own and jump Intrudair clothing quite regularly and I've yet to see a suit blow up.

Most of these suites were bought within the last three years so for older models it might have been different.
I also haven't seen their RW-model so can't say aything about it.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to say it lasts, because the fit is excellent, so are the looks, and I'm very comfortable flying in it. But based on a large-ish sample of different models (see above), I have to say it's more than just incidental damage in a single faulty suit.

"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

[skytribe 16]

Quote

degeneration wrote:

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councilman24 wrote:

.

...you wouldn't be picking ... the least versatile AAD.

If this can be answered easily without turning this thread into another AAD wars thread, how is the M2 the least versatile AAD?
I can answer that without malice. The M2 lacks the ability for the user to switch between student, expert, and tandem modes. Although it does allow you to activate a swoop (speed) mode in the expert version, or in the case of a student version it can be activated in expert mode.

Also it's activation altitude is not adjustable, although it does allow for setting an offset between take off, and DZ elevation. The three currently available brands of AAD handle these issues in different manners. In at least one case there are different models with different capabilities for flexibility.

For the average sport jumper they all have enough flexibility to do the job. If you are a DZO, or running a student or tandem program you may have different needs in an AAD.

I would say that the ability to switch between student, tandem and normal mode on an AAD may apply to some DZO's, but really doesn't apply to many Sport jumpers.

The M2 allows switching between Swoop and normal mode which is a whole lot more useful to jumpers. As is the ability to see how close you are coming to activation - which may assist you in determining whether you need to switch to swoop mode.

The ability to adjust activation altitudes may be of use to some jumpers but everyone I know personally in my 25 years of skydiving has pretty well used AAD's as a turn on and forget about it (safety net) device. Albeit a couple of incidents have questioned the activation altitude - all the manufacturers have defaulted to a similar activation altitude. Which leads me to believe it is probably acceptable for most skydivers.

I know you can offset to account for different altitude at landing sites but that is a feature available on all of them.

The M2 is a great cost effective choice and hopefully one which you never have to use. I don't believe that it is any less functional or versatile for most sport jumpers.

[Kiwiskydiving 0]

Thanks for all the replies! Seems like jumping a 210 at 0.9 is a better idea after all. As for the suits I'll ask around and gather more data on its durability. The design though it's hard to step away from that

My skydiving blog: www.kiwiskydiving.com /// youtube channel: kiwiskydiving

[sammielu 3]

For suits (and helmets), walk around the dz and talk to people. I bought the suit I did (Bev) because:
-there is a local dealer who can measure properly and answer questions about options, colors, etc
-The most worn out versions were overstretched spandex on a 15 year old suit with thousands of jumps and knee scrapes from belly jumpers sliding in on their booties/knees for 1000 jumps were ok with me.

[mcordell 2]

councilman24

You've already made some bad decisions. And price obviously IS a concern or you wouldn't be picking one of the least popular containers because of its price and the least versatile AAD. Buy a good used rig with a bigger main, planning to pass it on soon.

This is gear snob advice and nothing more. The vortex is a very well built container. Just because it's not overpriced doesn't make it a poor choice or as you put it "bad decision". It's not as popular HERE in the US but that doesn't make it an unpopular container. The manufacturer is moving facilities from South Africa to South Carolina and soon these will all be domestically produced. They are every bit as durable as other containers on the market, they just don't cost you half a new car and your first born child. I'm not sure why you would consider it sound advice to tell someone to buy used gear for close to the same price as a new vortex. A new container will be custom fit for them and it's history is known.

For the record I'm a Parachute Systems dealer. I feel I should disclose that since I'm posting about them, however I am also a Wings dealer and a Mirage dealer and I CHOOSE to jump a vortex because of the quality you get for the cost. The build quality is good and you get features standard on a vortex that cost way too much on other containers.

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[gowlerk 1,915]

mcordell

***You've already made some bad decisions. And price obviously IS a concern or you wouldn't be picking one of the least popular containers because of its price and the least versatile AAD. Buy a good used rig with a bigger main, planning to pass it on soon.

This is gear snob advice and nothing more. The vortex is a very well built container. Just because it's not overpriced doesn't make it a poor choice or as you put it "bad decision". It's not as popular HERE in the US but that doesn't make it an unpopular container. The manufacturer is moving facilities from South Africa to South Carolina and soon these will all be domestically produced. They are every bit as durable as other containers on the market, they just don't cost you half a new car and your first born child. I'm not sure why you would consider it sound advice to tell someone to buy used gear for close to the same price as a new vortex. A new container will be custom fit for them and it's history is known.

For the record I'm a Parachute Systems dealer. I feel I should disclose that since I'm posting about them, however I am also a Wings dealer and a Mirage dealer and I CHOOSE to jump a vortex because of the quality you get for the cost. The build quality is good and you get features standard on a vortex that cost way too much on other containers.


It's hard to sit here and take you calling Terry a "gear snob." His main point is that the OP would be better off following the traditional path of buying older, larger gear first and then selling it off to move up. And he did not disparage the quality of the Vortex, he merely mentioned that it is less popular. And that price does seem to be motivating the OP's decisions.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[councilman24 36]

If you'd paid attention you'd know I'm anything but a gear snob. I recommend Dolphins a lot of the time. I don't jump anything newer than 1997 other than AAD's, and have bought two custom rigs in my 37 year career, out of about 10 rigs. I have absolutely nothing against the Vortex. My advice had nothing to do with the choice being the Vortex. IF I bought a new rig I'd probably pick the new version of the dolphin only because I know the guys that build it. For the record I only deal in pilot rigs.

The OP said money wasn't a consideration, but picked the least popular and cheapest options he could. So obviously money was an issue and I pointed that out. Resale in my neck of the rigs on a vortex would suck, just because they are not popular here, not because they are bad.

I don't recommend ANYONE buy a new rig for their first rig. They are going to be changing main canopy even if they don't think so. They are going to be crash landing and rolling in the sand, grass, or mud depending on area of the country. And with later model used gear they can flip it for most of what they have in it. Sometimes more. Custom rigs are a good choice, when you have some experience and actually know what you want a couple years of student status.

My advice stands. Not because I'm trying to lose you a sale. But because I don't believe taking the depreciation hit on a new rig for a FIRST rig is the best choice. I'd say the same thing if he said money was no option and was going to buy a Vector or an Oddessy.

With changeable activation altitude missing I do not believe the MARS is the best choice. For my gear it would work fine.

Me a gear snob it actually pretty funny. Ask anyone that knows me.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[mcordell 2]

councilman24

If you'd paid attention you'd know I'm anything but a gear snob. I recommend Dolphins a lot of the time. I don't jump anything newer than 1997 other than AAD's, and have bought two custom rigs in my 37 year career, out of about 10 rigs. I have absolutely nothing against the Vortex. My advice had nothing to do with the choice being the Vortex. IF I bought a new rig I'd probably pick the new version of the dolphin only because I know the guys that build it. For the record I only deal in pilot rigs.

The OP said money wasn't a consideration, but picked the least popular and cheapest options he could. So obviously money was an issue and I pointed that out. Resale in my neck of the rigs on a vortex would suck, just because they are not popular here, not because they are bad.

I don't recommend ANYONE buy a new rig for their first rig. They are going to be changing main canopy even if they don't think so. They are going to be crash landing and rolling in the sand, grass, or mud depending on area of the country. And with later model used gear they can flip it for most of what they have in it. Sometimes more. Custom rigs are a good choice, when you have some experience and actually know what you want a couple years of student status.

My advice stands. Not because I'm trying to lose you a sale. But because I don't believe taking the depreciation hit on a new rig for a FIRST rig is the best choice. I'd say the same thing if he said money was no option and was going to buy a Vector or an Oddessy.

With changeable activation altitude missing I do not believe the MARS is the best choice. For my gear it would work fine.

Me a gear snob it actually pretty funny. Ask anyone that knows me.

I don't often find myself disagreeing with you on much on these forums and so if I misinterpreted your post I do apologize. As for the sale issue, as far as I know this person has never contacted me to purchase gear. I have no way of knowing if they plan to purchase from me or someone else so that wasn't my issue. The reason I interpreted your post that way was because you referred to the purchase of a vortex as a bad decision. I don't believe it is a bad decision. Maybe you meant new gear in general (which I would disagree with but not as adamantly) but you did say the OP made bad decisions already by choosing the vortex and M2.

again, if that wasn't your intention then I apologize for misinterpreting, but I'm sure you could see how I get that from your post. As for the M2, I don't know why anyone would need a changeable mode other than to go from expert to speed if they are swooping on some jumps. To that extent, the M2 allows x-mode activation which allows the expert to be used as a speed unit for that very reason. The M2 also arms above the firing altitude as opposed to the vigil arming well below the firing altitude which is likely the cause of some of the issues people have had with them firing in the trunk. The only thing the m2 doesn't have going for it is a way to permanently raise the activation altitude. The m2 firing altitude is slightly higher than the other two however. There are plenty of pros to the M2 and I don't really see it as a lesser choice or a less versatile choice but that's also personal opinion.

For the record, I wasn't calling you a gear snob, just saying that advice was gear snob advice. I'm certain now that you responded that you weren't trashing the gear so I retract my previous statement.

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[councilman24 36]

Thanks for.the reply. Again I don't think any new jumper should buy new gear. We can disagree. Hell I don't think any old jumper should buy new gear. To me it's a vanity purchase. And fun to do once in a while. And somebody has to by new gear so I can find a good deal. Have no opinion good or bad on a vortex in particular. I haven't seen one since the month they got their TSO.

I recommended the MARS to fund limited jumpers until the ability to permanently raise opening altitude was added to others. I believe for much of the gear that is needed and was part of the PIA committees recommending it. For my vector II's a MARs would be fine. I agree chanable modes aren't needed for most and didn't get one two months ago. But my brand new Cypres was also less than $1100.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[FreefallingCari 0]

I want to second the EXCELLENT decision.

I flew a .85WL for 180 jumps. I have a post regarding my downsizing to a 150, a true 1 to 1 WL. I am likely not going to downsize again, however my personal mark is to downsize at 500 jumps IF I wish to downsize further.

You want something forgiving, trust me. This is your ass we are talking about. There is nothing cool about breaking a bone.

Skydiver Survivor; Battling Breast Cancer one jump at a time. DX June 19th 2014
I have been jumping since October 5th 2013.
https://pinkribbonskydiver.wordpress.com/

[Kiwiskydiving 0]

Hahaha I know all too well about breaking a bone. Broke my left ankle on my 6th jump due to late flaring and getting a foot stuck while PLF. Not fun at all during the 2 months recovery. Sucks a lot more since I'm still in college. 210 it is then!

My skydiving blog: www.kiwiskydiving.com /// youtube channel: kiwiskydiving

[johnmatrix 21]

Most people will tell you to get a second hand rig at first - and it's good advice.

I however ordered a brand new container for my first set of gear, brand new Cypres, new reserve and second hand main. I'm still jumping that gear now, and after 600 jumps on it I'm still not anywhere close to fully exploring everything my canopy can do.

If you have the money I think you should get the gear you really want. :)