mikeyfred1 0 #1 July 19, 2005 I was recently the victim of a premature deployment. Upon preparing for exit,I walked onto the hydraulic platform of the casa skyvan. I got the back of my container a little too close to the wall of the plane, and pinched my hackey between the metal and the fiberglass covering,that covered the walls.not realizing this happened I proceeded to exit the plane with another jumper.as we exited the plane, I experienced a sharp yank to one side,and while I was on my back,my d-bag deployed,and my parachute inflated.I had a couple of line twists and my risers were inverted but other than that I was ok. after I reached the ground and inspected my rig I realized the hackey was missing .I went to inspect the plane for my hackey and realized that not only was my hackey stuck in the plane.but there was another hackey stuck in there too.what could have turned out to be a fatality for me, or for the other jumper just turned out to be a scare.the lesson learned here is:planes are not snag proof , so just be mindful of where the back of your container is at all times. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 July 19, 2005 That really sucks, glad you're ok...to clarify though, was it a CASA or a Skyvan. Although with both tailgate AC it could present a problem, but I could possibly see it being more of a problem with one over the other (atleast the various ones of both types that I've jumped out of). A Casa-skyvan half-breed would be much too ugly to fly.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #3 July 19, 2005 It would be a Casa 212, not a Casa Skyvan The sheet metal covering the frame back there is fastened pretty good except where there is a pin sticking up usually. There is about a 1.5-2 inch lip on the edge of the door everyone needs to watch out for. I've seen lots of people slam their elbows into it as they are leaving, and even a few broken bones due to that. An important lesson here is to inspect the door of any plane you are going to be exiting from before you get to altitude. A few years ago there was a fatality that was caused by snagging in the door: Date Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL? 7/4/98 WI MAL,EXC 39 850 N/N Description: The deceased was last (of 3) out of a Westwind beech, jumping into a Fourth of July Celibration. During exit, her container inadvertantly opened, casuing her canopy and lines to taknle with a foot-mounted pyrotechnic bracket. She landed this malfunction without pulling main pilot chute, cutaway or reserve. It is not known if she was concious after exit. It was discovered during investigations that there was a latch protruding from the door frame, which may have both caused a tear in the main flap of her rig, and caused the pin to be extracted prematurely. Another jumper at this DZ was found with similar damage to his rig, presumably form the same latch.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
itllclear 1 #4 July 19, 2005 Be careful of the seats on a C-130. A couple of years ago, one of the video guys at the Boogie in Ecuador was running for the door, with his bridle trailing behind him. The hacky was caught in the webbing of one of the seats. A couple of alert jumpers tackled the guy before he got to the door. Can you imagine the premature opening from a plane moving at the spped of the Herc? Ouch!"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #5 July 19, 2005 Here's another incident with an tailgate exit. A Skyvan this time, not a CASA. (pictures included). Thankfully it was only a lost shoe and torn jumpsuit....but -could- have been alot worse! http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=811229;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; PS: There's a CASA incident mentioned on the 2nd page as well as an injury to Eliana. :^( ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #6 July 19, 2005 >Can you imagine the premature opening from a plane moving at the spped of the Herc? We had a reserve deployment out of one of the C-130's in Thailand last year. Result was broken ribs, and the obvious physiological problems of being at 25,000 feet with no oxygen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
evilivan 0 #7 July 19, 2005 Happened to me too a couple of years ago out of a CASA at Lake Wales; 3 way train exit and had my back to the side wall. Hackey got caught in exactly the same place (if I understood your description correctly). Max Cohn (or it might have been Steve Blincoe) had video of it from inside the plane; could have been pretty bad for the pilot - and pos the rest of the load - of the hackey hadn't come away cleanly. As it happens everything was fine, no damage to gear or plane.... only a very long 13.5k canopy ride. I think in bigger aircraft its possible that people take less care because you think you have all the room in the world... something to be aware of."If you can keep your head when all around you have lost theirs, then you probably haven't understood the seriousness of the situation." David Brent Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heftee 0 #8 July 19, 2005 That other hackey might have been the one from SD Dallas that happened July 4th weekend. We had the same thing happen, but it was a 13-way jump. He was in the base and we had divers heading towards him during his deployment - thank goodness no one was hurt. Same thing - he got to the ground and saw he was missing his hackey completely. Glad you were safe. ------------------------- "If you've never jumped out of a plane, the best way I can describe it is it feels as if you've just jumped out of a freakin' plane." David Whitley (Orlando Sentinel) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #9 July 19, 2005 QuoteThat other hackey might have been the one from SD Dallas that happened July 4th weekend. Quote No that hacky was recovered from the plane that day. So, we have 3 recently. I wonder if it is the same plane."We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimmytavino 16 #10 July 19, 2005 I was a recent victim of a snagged rig which caught on the side of a casa there were 6 of us pregripped ready to launch a 4way star with 2 hangers , for a hybrid dive... the rig which caught,, was not mine, but was on the guy next to me, who also had a right hand grip on my left legstrap.... i was also double gripped at both arms, with jumpers who were to be in the flat flying 4 way round.. ( the hangers were to be hanging from legstraps, not cheststraps.) anyway,, when we went,,, the one guy didn't... his legstrap snagged but then cleared and the entire base got racked....... in the ensuing flushed exit... my right arm got really torqued,, and the shoulder dislocated.... Long story short,,, since my arm was flailing around above my head, and since I could NOT bring my hand down,,,, anywhere NEAR my main P C Handle, I stayed cool throughout the feefall and pulled my reserve with my left hand (after waving off) just as i was getting to 3 grand...I had a painful but controllable reserve ride and landed in the main landing area,,, but the shoulder needed emergency room treatment and had to be reset.... I was "wishboned" like a thanksgiving day turkey,,,,, and you can be sure it will be a looong damn time before i take up "gorilla grips" in the door of ANY aircraft again.... Upon returning to the dz shortly thereafter we looked at the plane to see 2 chunks of hardware, one on each side of the door, apparently used for "static line retrieval"... hmmmmm... 2 things..... 1. such projections Need to be covered, taped, or otherwise neutralized and 2. we should have turned the 6 way piece,,, 90 degrees in the door.. and exited it the skinny way, instead of the wide way... but more importantly we should have LOOKED and we would have seen the snag point...... I wonder why NO One else had,,,,, waaaay before we got to that skydive.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydivedon 0 #11 July 19, 2005 I had a similar problem at Z-hills with a premature deployment in Jan. 2001. I was the last out of a 9-way and was to dive to the formation. I was hunched over with my Reflex Rig's pop-top pushed up against the ceiling of the plan (Otter). There was a cable on the inside of the plan connected to the plexiglass door to assist in pening the door. Unfortunately, that cable slid under my reserve pop-top unknown to me. As I dove out of the plan the cable ripped the pop-top out and broke the reserve line and as I dove out, my reserve came out as well. A video guy in back of me got it all on video. You could see the reserve pilot chute just fly out the Otter's door and my reserve open immediately at 13,500' in a 60Kt wind blowing me away from the airport. THANK GOD I made it back to the airport with some thoughtful canopy handling. Of course, I siad a few expletives in the process of my 30 min. ride down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nael 0 #12 July 20, 2005 QuoteTHANK GOD I made it back to the airport with some thoughtful canopy handling. Of course, I siad a few expletives in the process of my 30 min. ride down. Never mind making it back, something like that could easily take the whole plane down had the reserve caught on the tail. As I'm sure you know, it's happened before, I would have been thanking my lucky stars the whole canopy ride that it wasnt much much worse.www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydivedon 0 #13 July 20, 2005 ABSOLUTELY correct! I was VERY lucky to have the opportunity to make it out of that one for sure. This could have been a very bad situation indeed. I thanked GOD every minute of that canopy ride once the initial shock of the reserve opening subsided. And, believe me I had a LOT of time to think of all the things that could have happened on the way down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skysurfcam 0 #14 July 20, 2005 Can someone please explain why this post was moved from Incidents who's brief is QuoteA forum to report, discuss and learn from actual incidents, fatal and non-fatal. Let's learn from our own mistakes honor those people who've passed on by not making the same mistakes. to Safety and Training, who's brief is QuoteThere is a direct relationship between your knowledge, skill and attitude and skydiving safety. Safety should be your #1 priority and this is the place to grow in all three of those areas. Incident - Yes - Lesson to be learned - Yes - Training issue - Not so much? Are we overpolicing ourselves, wouldnt this be better off left where it was where a robust and healthy discussion of the dangers of the inside of tailgate aircraft might be highlighted, and possible save someone else a similar, or even worse fate? What's up with that? I'm confused. C. Brother Wayward's rule of the day... "Never ever ever go skydiving without going parachuting immediately afterwards." 100% PURE ADRENALENS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mikeyfred1 0 #15 July 21, 2005 if your looking out from the back of the plane,the hackey along with mine was found on the right hand side.the pilots also said that 3 weeks before that that someone else found one on the left hand side Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mikeyfred1 0 #16 July 21, 2005 I wasnt on the ground more than 5 minutes,and I was grounded for 2 days Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #17 July 21, 2005 Why where you grounded? I'm not seeing a connection as to why someone would ground you over an incident like this...Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mikeyfred1 0 #18 July 21, 2005 I dont understand why my post was moved.The instructions say" serious incidents fatal or non fatal" jumping out of skyvans or casas ,during boogies or events is a big thing that everyone,new or experienced looks forward to attending.people should know and understand the seriousnes of getting snagged in any plane. during these incidents fatalities can occur not only with the jumper,but also with the whole group and crew on the plane.! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mikeyfred1 0 #19 July 21, 2005 I was grounded before anyone even knew what really happened. the ST and A guy said that in the past hes seen that I havent been mindful of my own gear. my argument was that" why ground me when I was mindful of my own gear"and I had someone give me a gear check before we jumped,and in the end it wasnt my gear that failed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites huka551 0 #20 July 21, 2005 Mike it was wrong that they grounded you for an accident, something that wasn't your fault, and something that hasn't happened before. If it is who I think it is, he's the kind of guy that is over-reacts, like putting a 50 jump min. restriction on a load that has a student! Muff Brother 3723 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mikeyfred1 0 #21 July 21, 2005 the same guy your thinking of is the same guy im talking about.hes a great guy but I think he overreacted.I took my grounding without an argument.I dont need to be blackballed from a dropzone that I only live 5 miles from Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites huka551 0 #22 July 21, 2005 You know what I wasn't there, maybe the grounding seems harsh, but he did what he felt was right for the safety of everyone involved. Even if we don't like their decisions, they are the ones looking out for our safety. Muff Brother 3723 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #23 July 22, 2005 Quote...I took my grounding without an argument. I'm with you on this....My home DZ is lucky to have a great S&TA...he's very conservative but IMHO, that's the way it should be. I would never question his decisions - he's probably saved many lives just by being there. QuoteI dont need to be blackballed from a dropzone that I only live 5 miles from Oooooo....if you are blackballed, you could be come an Orfun! My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites el_chester 4 #24 July 22, 2005 During the z-team bigways there was a similar incident from a casa while we were doing a 60-way. i was jumping with camera from a right trail otter and have video of it (not very good video but the premature opening of one of the base-plane guys is on it). Since the ramp on bigways gets pretty crowded, this is one more thing to take care of. Another person actually bounced off the stratched lines as the main started to inflate. BTW, the person who this happened to was the only one to make it back to the airport because of a bad spot. I will look up the video and probably post it on skydivingmovies.com. When I do I'll post back here. -- Be careful giving advice. Wise men don't need it, and fools won't heed it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bisqit999 0 #25 July 22, 2005 Quote50 jump min. restriction on a load that has a student! I didn't know this happens...did they do that to you? I can't recall if I've been on a load with a student. I guess it makes sense. Good thing I'm almost at 50. I honestly think he got grounded because he didn't bring enough chips for everyone!! Glad you're ok Mike!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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jimmytavino 16 #10 July 19, 2005 I was a recent victim of a snagged rig which caught on the side of a casa there were 6 of us pregripped ready to launch a 4way star with 2 hangers , for a hybrid dive... the rig which caught,, was not mine, but was on the guy next to me, who also had a right hand grip on my left legstrap.... i was also double gripped at both arms, with jumpers who were to be in the flat flying 4 way round.. ( the hangers were to be hanging from legstraps, not cheststraps.) anyway,, when we went,,, the one guy didn't... his legstrap snagged but then cleared and the entire base got racked....... in the ensuing flushed exit... my right arm got really torqued,, and the shoulder dislocated.... Long story short,,, since my arm was flailing around above my head, and since I could NOT bring my hand down,,,, anywhere NEAR my main P C Handle, I stayed cool throughout the feefall and pulled my reserve with my left hand (after waving off) just as i was getting to 3 grand...I had a painful but controllable reserve ride and landed in the main landing area,,, but the shoulder needed emergency room treatment and had to be reset.... I was "wishboned" like a thanksgiving day turkey,,,,, and you can be sure it will be a looong damn time before i take up "gorilla grips" in the door of ANY aircraft again.... Upon returning to the dz shortly thereafter we looked at the plane to see 2 chunks of hardware, one on each side of the door, apparently used for "static line retrieval"... hmmmmm... 2 things..... 1. such projections Need to be covered, taped, or otherwise neutralized and 2. we should have turned the 6 way piece,,, 90 degrees in the door.. and exited it the skinny way, instead of the wide way... but more importantly we should have LOOKED and we would have seen the snag point...... I wonder why NO One else had,,,,, waaaay before we got to that skydive.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivedon 0 #11 July 19, 2005 I had a similar problem at Z-hills with a premature deployment in Jan. 2001. I was the last out of a 9-way and was to dive to the formation. I was hunched over with my Reflex Rig's pop-top pushed up against the ceiling of the plan (Otter). There was a cable on the inside of the plan connected to the plexiglass door to assist in pening the door. Unfortunately, that cable slid under my reserve pop-top unknown to me. As I dove out of the plan the cable ripped the pop-top out and broke the reserve line and as I dove out, my reserve came out as well. A video guy in back of me got it all on video. You could see the reserve pilot chute just fly out the Otter's door and my reserve open immediately at 13,500' in a 60Kt wind blowing me away from the airport. THANK GOD I made it back to the airport with some thoughtful canopy handling. Of course, I siad a few expletives in the process of my 30 min. ride down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nael 0 #12 July 20, 2005 QuoteTHANK GOD I made it back to the airport with some thoughtful canopy handling. Of course, I siad a few expletives in the process of my 30 min. ride down. Never mind making it back, something like that could easily take the whole plane down had the reserve caught on the tail. As I'm sure you know, it's happened before, I would have been thanking my lucky stars the whole canopy ride that it wasnt much much worse.www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivedon 0 #13 July 20, 2005 ABSOLUTELY correct! I was VERY lucky to have the opportunity to make it out of that one for sure. This could have been a very bad situation indeed. I thanked GOD every minute of that canopy ride once the initial shock of the reserve opening subsided. And, believe me I had a LOT of time to think of all the things that could have happened on the way down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skysurfcam 0 #14 July 20, 2005 Can someone please explain why this post was moved from Incidents who's brief is QuoteA forum to report, discuss and learn from actual incidents, fatal and non-fatal. Let's learn from our own mistakes honor those people who've passed on by not making the same mistakes. to Safety and Training, who's brief is QuoteThere is a direct relationship between your knowledge, skill and attitude and skydiving safety. Safety should be your #1 priority and this is the place to grow in all three of those areas. Incident - Yes - Lesson to be learned - Yes - Training issue - Not so much? Are we overpolicing ourselves, wouldnt this be better off left where it was where a robust and healthy discussion of the dangers of the inside of tailgate aircraft might be highlighted, and possible save someone else a similar, or even worse fate? What's up with that? I'm confused. C. Brother Wayward's rule of the day... "Never ever ever go skydiving without going parachuting immediately afterwards." 100% PURE ADRENALENS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeyfred1 0 #15 July 21, 2005 if your looking out from the back of the plane,the hackey along with mine was found on the right hand side.the pilots also said that 3 weeks before that that someone else found one on the left hand side Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeyfred1 0 #16 July 21, 2005 I wasnt on the ground more than 5 minutes,and I was grounded for 2 days Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #17 July 21, 2005 Why where you grounded? I'm not seeing a connection as to why someone would ground you over an incident like this...Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeyfred1 0 #18 July 21, 2005 I dont understand why my post was moved.The instructions say" serious incidents fatal or non fatal" jumping out of skyvans or casas ,during boogies or events is a big thing that everyone,new or experienced looks forward to attending.people should know and understand the seriousnes of getting snagged in any plane. during these incidents fatalities can occur not only with the jumper,but also with the whole group and crew on the plane.! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeyfred1 0 #19 July 21, 2005 I was grounded before anyone even knew what really happened. the ST and A guy said that in the past hes seen that I havent been mindful of my own gear. my argument was that" why ground me when I was mindful of my own gear"and I had someone give me a gear check before we jumped,and in the end it wasnt my gear that failed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huka551 0 #20 July 21, 2005 Mike it was wrong that they grounded you for an accident, something that wasn't your fault, and something that hasn't happened before. If it is who I think it is, he's the kind of guy that is over-reacts, like putting a 50 jump min. restriction on a load that has a student! Muff Brother 3723 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeyfred1 0 #21 July 21, 2005 the same guy your thinking of is the same guy im talking about.hes a great guy but I think he overreacted.I took my grounding without an argument.I dont need to be blackballed from a dropzone that I only live 5 miles from Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huka551 0 #22 July 21, 2005 You know what I wasn't there, maybe the grounding seems harsh, but he did what he felt was right for the safety of everyone involved. Even if we don't like their decisions, they are the ones looking out for our safety. Muff Brother 3723 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #23 July 22, 2005 Quote...I took my grounding without an argument. I'm with you on this....My home DZ is lucky to have a great S&TA...he's very conservative but IMHO, that's the way it should be. I would never question his decisions - he's probably saved many lives just by being there. QuoteI dont need to be blackballed from a dropzone that I only live 5 miles from Oooooo....if you are blackballed, you could be come an Orfun! My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
el_chester 4 #24 July 22, 2005 During the z-team bigways there was a similar incident from a casa while we were doing a 60-way. i was jumping with camera from a right trail otter and have video of it (not very good video but the premature opening of one of the base-plane guys is on it). Since the ramp on bigways gets pretty crowded, this is one more thing to take care of. Another person actually bounced off the stratched lines as the main started to inflate. BTW, the person who this happened to was the only one to make it back to the airport because of a bad spot. I will look up the video and probably post it on skydivingmovies.com. When I do I'll post back here. -- Be careful giving advice. Wise men don't need it, and fools won't heed it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bisqit999 0 #25 July 22, 2005 Quote50 jump min. restriction on a load that has a student! I didn't know this happens...did they do that to you? I can't recall if I've been on a load with a student. I guess it makes sense. Good thing I'm almost at 50. I honestly think he got grounded because he didn't bring enough chips for everyone!! Glad you're ok Mike!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
