Bad Eyesight and Skydiving

[freaksister 0]

I was reading the thread on the safety and training forum about women and landings and it made me think of vision ('cause we were talking about depth perception)...
Anyway, i don't want to bring that mess up again...this is what I was thinking about:
Any of you out there with just god-awful vision? I have to wear hard (gas-permeable) contacts because my vision is SO bad that soft contacts won't correct it enough! The smallest tiniest speck of dirt or mascara, or a single eyelash, and my eye starts to water like Niagra Falls, I can't see s**t and I have to go to the bathroom and take it out, clean it, blah blah blah.....
I want to have LASIK surgery but its $2500 per eye! Not only do I not have that much money, I can't finance it, either.
I don't want to wear glasses when skydiving, although I know a lot of you out there do it. I probably should though, because I have this fear of being all suited up, ready to board the plane and then getting dirt in my eye (wearing my contacts). I probably wouldn't be able to get it out until jump run...or maybe not at all...I don't want to be in freefall with watery eyes I can't see out of (there's a dumbass reason to die.) I have to wear my full face helmet to even walk up to the plane door b/c of the prop blast and all the dirt. This just really sucks for me, it is sooooo inconvenient. One day my contact was dry and it just fell out, pop! right onto the floor. I was in the woman's bathroom crawling around on my hands and knees trying to find this little piece of f***ing plastic, and Mandy, one of our AFF instructors, walks in like, "What are you doing on the floor?" hahahaha well she found it for me. I didn't have my glasses that weekend so I couldn't have jumped again, 'cause then my depth perception would have been basically NON-EXISTENT!
i just felt like bitching about this relatively minor problem, sorry...anybody else? lol
Thanks guys,
Blue ones and GO TO SAFETY DAY!!!
Sis
Edited by FREAKSISTER on 3/8/01 09:43 PM.

[dove 0]

Sis,
I know what you mean - I wear contacts too and I have wondered what I would do if something got in my eye during freefall or more likely under canopy. Fortunately I do have soft contacts, but they still hurt like hell when ANYTHING gets in there! I have thought about Lasik but even more than the money thing I don't like the minute chance that I will be the 1/100 that has worse vision afterwards. Contacts are inconvenient, but permanently damaged eyeballs would be a tragedy. So I choose to cope with the hassle. I did see someone lose a contact under canopy before. You'd be surprised how good you can see with one eye when you have too! Here's to dust-free jumps! Cheers!
Elisa

[lazerq3 0]

The good news: My job is working with lasers. I operate and miantain two CO2 lasers. It'd be an honor to work on your eyes. the bad news: These lasers cut any thing from the thinest of paper to 1" thick steel!!! Dont think theyre the same as a eye laser. But hey how can you argue with freeeee eye work :) (j/k)
I always did wonder how you guys jumped with contacts. That would sux if one popped out right before landing. Wish I could help. I got the skills, Ijust dont have the MAD SKILLS (dowh)
jason

[skybytch 259]

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I want to have LASIK surgery but its $2500 per eye! Not only do I not have that much money, I can't finance it, either

Sis! Come to Southern California and get it done for under $1000 per eye! I've seen LASIK advertised for as little at $700/eye around here... The people I know who've had it say it was the best present they ever gave themselves. pull and flare,
lisa
Edited by skybytch on 3/8/01 11:04 PM.

[Patkat 0]

Ahhh, another blind person. I bet my eyes are almost as bad as yours, 'Sis - I'm not quite at the "needs hard lenses" state, but I must be close. Plus, I had retinal surgery last summer, which made my right eye even worse!! I've tried both glasses and contacts for skydiving, and I gotta say, contacts have it all over glasses as far as I'm concerned. The reasons?
1. I don't look like a dork.
2. I have much better peripheral vision, which can be key to survival in the sky.
3. I'm lucky enough that I have very few problems with my lenses popping out.
I'd say that even if your lenses do fall out, that leaves two out of three, which is not bad, as they say.
-Patkat

[BenW 0]

I wear soft lenses and would no WAY jump with glasses on! IMHO your peripheral vision isn't good enough - well mine isn't anyway!
I tend to only wear lenses for sports etc, so I look like a "Dork" most days - thanks PatKat...
Ben

[Hellian 0]

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1. I don't look like a dork.

Sorry, but this sort of stereotypical view really gets up my nose
I have worn glasses since i was two, and until a couple of years ago i used to hate it, as they were big and clunky, shelled out £120 and got myself some nice slim "designer" glasses, if you think you look "Like a dork" then you can't have much self confidence....
/me apologises if this sounds too harsh.
Ed

[freaksister 0]

ahhh, i knew i wasn't the only blind person! hehe
hey lisa i like that idea of one grand per eye...now we're talking!! better start saving...that will be hard with all the jumps i am *planning* on making, but hey!who knows!
luv ya'll!!
sis

[Dutchboy 0]

Come to Atlanta for Lasik. I've seen some of the places around here advertising < $500 per eye.

[PLFXpert 0]

Freaksis, I'm glad you brought this up. I do not wear glasses or contacts b/c I have 20/40 vision (last time I was tested, could be worse now) which is the bare minimum they say you need to drive w/out glasses. Anyhow....as far as canopy control goes, I always get to the target (never right on it but always close around it) but when it comes time to flare, I'm ALWAYS off (hence PLFXpert name.) I asked my boyfriend if he thought this might be b/c my depth perception is off but he said probably NOT and that I'd just get it eventually with more practice. Does anyone disagree or am I just flare-challenged?
Much love and blue skies,
Carrie http://www.geocities.com/skydivegrl20/

[Divadiver 0]

Sis:
Make sure where ever you have your surgery done that you have a doctor who has been trained and has years of experience doing laser surgery (Sorry Laserq3 that will leave you out - grin). If the laser surgery is anything like radial surgery, the outcome of the surgery will vary from person to person depending on the amount of correction needed. Those who need only slight vision correction will have a better chance at 20/20 (or better) vision after the surgery. Those who need more correction should expect better vision, but may not get 20/20 vision.
I had the radial surgery about 6 years ago. I don't know about the laser surgery, but you need to consider your lifestyle as well before having it done. If you play sports (baseball, boxing, throwing a frisbee, etc. . .) where there is a chance you may get hit in the eye, you'll need to take precautions and wear appropriate protection for your eyes. With the radial surgery getting hit in the eye could mean your eye actually shattering on you (this is because there are tiny, spoke like incisions made around the cornea of the eye).
I wore contacts for years and because I had blood vessels growing into my cornea, I was told that I could no longer wear contacts. I had been through every type made before I was told this. Glasses were not an option for me. I'd worn glasses, but only for short periods of time. I have never, ever owned a pair of glasses that didn't either pinch the back of my ears, the bridge of my nose or I was constantly pushing them around on my face. I spent money on the lightest, most flexible, you name it kinds of glasses and still no relief. So, I had the surgery, and I don't regret it for a minute. I woke up the next day and could read the clock on the table next to my bed, I could look down the hall and make out who was standing 3 rooms away.
There is always the possibilities that when I hit 40-45 and start holding things away from me with outstretched arms, I'll still need to wear glasses eventually. But, hey (not give away my age here), I've still got some time left to take in the sights!
Good luck Sis!!
Divadiver (just my .02)

[Pammi 0]

There's actually people who can see without poking their eyeball? Amazing! I've been wearing contacts since 8th grade, so it's just a given for me. I am not unlucky enough to be like you, though, Freaksis with the hard ones. Merrick finally got contacts just a few months ago after I kept telling him how much nicer it is then glasses under a helmet and such, but had to also get those hard ones because of his stigmatism. Those are so thick! My eyesight is pretty bad, but I still have soft ones, plus the throw away kind that you can dump after a couple of weeks if you want or need to. It's great, because I can always carry a spare set with me to the DZ, just in case!
It also is nice for if you spend a lot of time in smoky places and it builds up on them, you can dump them after a while. A real lifesaver when I was working part-time bartending!
Pammi

[Tee 0]

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I want to have LASIK surgery but its $2500 per eye! Not only do I not have that much money, I can't finance it, either.

Hey Sis. I wear glasses too and they are certainly a pain when you are a skydiver or a swimmer! For me, I wear my glasses under my fullface so I don't have to sorry about the goggles flipping off in freefall. If you can get a flight to Alberta, Canada, you can get the Lasik surgery done on BOTH eyes for $999, and with the exchange rate of the dollar, that is only about $500 for you. Plus, you can come hang out and get some jumps in with us crazy Canadians!

[Zennie 0]

No offense, but I think I'll pass on discount LASIK.
------------
Blue Skies!
Zennie

[Tee 0]

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No offense, but I think I'll pass on discount LASIK.

Hey Zennie. It's not "discount", they have been doing Lasik in Canada for years, that has just always been the price here. I almost fell over when I heard the price they are charging in the US. I think the price difference is that Health Care here is still run by the government and not so much privately, so the price is regulated to some extent.

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[Grogs 0]

Hey Tee, that's a pretty good deal. I'd have to do it in the Summer though. I'd just be curious to know what the wait time for that procedure would be (I've heard there's a pretty long wait time for medical care in Canada?) Also, how do they feel about treating non-citizens? After all, you guys pay higher taxes for that cheap medical care. How do they feel about Americans coming up and taking advantage of it?
I've got one bad eye I'd love to have fixed. It's around 20/80 or so. Not bad enough I have to wear glasses most of the time (since I have nearly normal vision in the other eye). The only problem is that does reduce my depth perception a bit.

[favaks 0]

Sis,
My vision is very bad too, atleast 20/400 on both eyes. I've worn contacts before but they get blown off once in a while. I've considered different types of refractive surgery, but it's not worth the risk really. Currently, I'm looking into prescription sport goggles. I think these will do just fine and they're cheap, about $100. Vision is very important in skydiving. The more you can see, the faster you can detect the problems and do away with it. My doctor said with glasses, my vision is 20/15, but with contacts or LASIK, it may not be as good because I have astigmatism on both eyes. Good luck!
-favaks

[Iflyme 0]

'Sis, I agree with the others who have concerns about the laser surgery... make sure you do LOTS of research and get the best, not the cheapest. Working in news, we recently did a series on laser surgery, and sure enough we had a fellow who was totally screwed after a botched surgery by a "cheap" outfit. Remember: "buyer beware".
Frank

[Iflyme 0]

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I've got one bad eye ...
I have nearly normal vision in the other eye... The only problem is that does reduce my depth perception a bit.

Hey, Grogs - I have one bad eye, too. I fell out of a tree when I was a kid and damaged my optic nerve... So I don't see too well out of my left eye, but my right eye has compensated and has above average vison now... anyway, my depth perception is a little weak, too. Does it cause you any grief at flare time?
Frank

[Deleted 0]

Well, once again, I don't know if this will help, but I used to jump with a guy in NZ who had 30% vision. We're talking this dude was legally blind, never looked right at you because he could only see with his periphery vision, had the BIGGEST cell phone you could find, had to read with his nose on the page, THE WORKS!! Oh yeah, he was always the base as well, otherwise he float in the sky for K's of ft and never find his slot.
He is one of the most experienced jumpers I have jumped with, but it didn't come easy for him. He was on a radio for like his first 50 jumps, just so he could get his perception right. He flies a 165(?)ft2 canopy, but doubts if he will ever go much smaller due to his vision and perception.
So, it can be done. Aside from the surgical options ahead of you, there is always the idea of going back on a radio and getting used to judge your landings with your "normal" vision, so that in an emergency, or...if you're ever sick of getting fully suited in the hangar, there is an out for you.
Again, don't know if this helps, but just thought I would add it. Yeah, you're not the only one!!
Cheers,
Arohanui,
B
NZPF A-2584

[Deleted 0]

Hi guys--
PLFKING here (having problems with upgrading to register--NOT changing my name to Anonymous !! )
A special howdy to all the old-timers who found the new site -- did Sangiro do a great job, or what ? MikeD10270, for the longest time I thought that the Australians had finally had enough of your s*** and turned you into Matilda bait !
I have to comment on this thread. I wore glasses from ages 5-35 (major astigmatism, and 20/200 vision) My mom estimated one time that I went through about 25-30 pair of glasses from ages 8-16, the majority of damages coming from playing football and soccer, falling out of trees, crash-landings on my motorcycles, and being an all-around hellian in general. I had the RK 7 years ago, and man, it has made a HUGE difference in my life (even more than skydiving, and that's saying a lot !) I would highly recommend it to anyone who is even casually thinking about it. The best $2900 I ever spent, or will spend (even a new rig couldn't compare to it.)
I can sympathize with Carrie's plight in regards to the flaring at landing. I flare too early almost every time, and have only had 6 stand-ups in 26 jumps --hence the name. I work out, and play about every sport known to man (except curling !), so I stay in shape, and the PLFs don't hurt, but I sometimes wonder if I'll ever be able to stand my landings, no matter how many jumps I get. My jumping friends tell me not to worry, it'll come, but will it? I've tried every bit of advice thrown at me, and my depth perception FEELS and LOOKS correct when I start to flare, but when the flare's done and the stall begins, I'm ALWAYS looking at 6-10 feet of air under my feet. I'm not going to stop jumping because of it, but I also know if I'm still landing like this 10-15 years from now when I'm in my mid 50s, I'm probably looking at some serious injury eventually knocking me out of this sport for good. Plus, I just want to land like everyone else !
Has anybody with this problem found ANYTHING that worked? My vision is now 20/30, but depth perception still sucks the big one. I need more advice, please. The obese kids worked well for the longest time, but now the little bastards have become wise to my ways, and have starting hiding behind trees and cars when I line up for final, and after plowing into a few tree-trunks (they don't yield at all !!), I've decided to change my ways -- now I HAVE to learn this !!
The PLF Chancellor

[freaksister 0]

The hard contacts do suck, but with them my vision is 20/20. They are just inconvenient and carry some risks, like cutting the cornea in an accident, etc. I think Tee's Canadian plan sounds good, but I am curious as well about how they feel regarding US folks coming up there for medical treatment. Wouldn't want to get myself in any hot water, now would I? Oh yeah, I also couldn't jump with any of crazy Canadians after the surgery, it would have to be before!
Speaking of eye patches (what I will have to wear after the surgery, which I WILL have done someday, just don't know when) I met a guy at my old DZ who only had one eye. He jumped with an eye patch...at the time, he was off static-line and doing 10-second delays. He said his depth perception was pretty bad. I don't know if he ever finished training or not. He was the DA so he was pretty busy!
Maybe because my hard chunk-of-tupperware with a razor-sharp edge contacts give me 20/20 vision, I haven't had any real problems with landings. I still PLF it once in a while but didn't really struggle. Canopy control scared the crap out of me for a long time and is still one of my number one soap-boxes but landings are only a part of that. I was surprised at the number of you who said you won't jump wearing glasses. I never thought about the issue of peripheral vision, but it makes sense, obviously.
Thanks for all the cool replies, guys! I will be *seeing* you after the weekend is over! I get to practice those landings again (if the damn weather will cooperate!)
Blue Skies and Clear Lenses,
Sis

[Grogs 0]

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Hey, Grogs - I have one bad eye, too. I fell out of a tree when I was a kid and damaged my optic nerve... So I don't see too well out of my left eye, but my right eye has compensated and has above average vison now... anyway, my depth perception is a little weak, too. Does it cause you any grief at flare time?

Surprisingly no. I think night jumps would be a different story. Really the only problem I have with the depth perception is lining up for final. I tend to either come in short or overshoot because I have a hard time judging the distance to my target.
Other sports are a little different though. I don't even think about playing pool or basketball without glasses on.

[phorty 0]

Has anybody with this problem found ANYTHING that worked?
PLFKING, the best thing to do is to not flare when you normally would. Give yourself a count of one-onethousand AFTER you think you want to flare. It takes some self control not to flare when you wantto but if you are constantly(stressing constantly here) hanging yourself up high when you stall try this. If you find after counting you are still a little high try going to a count of two. With a little practice your depth perception will kick in and you'll be nailing 'em!

[SniperCJ 0]

I HAD god-awful eyesight until I had my LASIK. I went from about 20/400 to 20/20 to 20/25 just about overnight.
The cost is no longer $2500 / eye Sis. Mine was $1400 total (I got a group kinda deal thing, but I think their usual price is $799 / eye,,,less than a new rig).
Come see me this weekend at SD Dallas (the tall packer dude) and I'll tell ya all about it.
The worst part about it is the 6 weeks of no jumping!
JC