Low altitude exits

[Aviatrr 0]

Recently, I've seen several posts regarding low exits - and I've talked to a lot of people at my home DZ.. It seems that there are waaaaaaay too many people that are absolutely terrified of low exits.. I guess it never really bothered me because my first 7 jumps were from 3k.. I have gotten out as low as 2k for hop&pops(ya know, when the pilot says it's a 10k ceiling, you take off, and it turns out to be 2k).. As for an emergency, I'll be out at 1k without a second thought.. If you are between me and the door during an emergency, you so much as hesitate, and you're gonna end up with my boot prints all over your back as I climb over you on the way out.. Sounds mean, I know, but it's the truth.. If the aircraft situation looks hopeless - I'll get out as low as I have to and hope for a damn fast reserve inflation..
What is the lowest that you will exit under normal circumstances? What is your reasoning behind the altitude you chose?
What is the lowest you will exit in an emergency? Let's say the plane is on fire - and it's a 50/50 chance that the pilot will be able to land it..
I think that everybody should do a hop&pop now and then from an altitude of around 3k.. I actually enjoy doing it.. On days with low clouds(and no rain), I love it when a hop&pop load is set up.. It mixes things up.. For some reason, a lot of people believe that a hop&pop from 3k is "too dangerous".. I just don't understand it..
Mike

[AggieDave 6]

Low altitudes can be fun. For me I'd say 1k is about my basement (get it, ceiling/basement AggieDave '02
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Blue Skies and Gig'em Ags!
BTHO t.u.

[FallinWoman 1]

I agree with you. I love hop and pops. I have no problem getting out at 3k. I am not comfortable much lower than that because I want time to clear, pull and evaluate before 1800 ft.
If the airplane was in trouble, anywhere near 1000 I am out the door and pulling silver. Below 1000 I really don't know!!!
blue skies and safe planes,
Anne

[DBTECH 0]

A "lowest normal" Hop and Pop for myself is 700-800 feet.
As far as an emergency exit is concerned, there are many factors that "I" would "hopefully" consider given that situation. I'd say that range would fall as low as 200 feet, depending on the "total situation."
The model of the "Total Situation" is of course, open for discussion.
Dave Brownell
1200+ Jumps
Mesa, AZ

[Shark 0]

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What is the lowest that you will exit under normal circumstances? What is your reasoning behind the altitude you chose?

2k. However, I'd probably go according to the USPA thing, whatever that may be. See I jump a Spectre which doesn't exactly open quickly.

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What is the lowest you will exit in an emergency? Let's say the plane is on fire - and it's a 50/50 chance that the pilot will be able to land it..

If it's above 1000 I'm out with the silver handle.
Hop-n-pops are cool even if it is an abbreviated freefall, but the canopy ride is the same. It's cheaper, too, except for the helo ones.

[spectre230 0]

[DZBone 0]

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I was on a load where an engine was on fire at 1500'.I went right for the silver.

I think I would go right for the door.

[Emma 0]

I love hop n pops and from 3k you can get a good bit of freefall anyway, I think.
I once went on a cloud base jump and was prepared to exit on my main at 1,500, but when it dropped to 1,250 just before my turn I wimped out and stayed in the plane, although someone did get out behind me.
In an aircraft emergency I'd go out low low low, if the alternative was going in with the plane....on my reserve at below 1,000 feet. I do have a Sabre and it opens quite quick, but my pack jobs aren't always totally brilliant!
Low exits are fun I think, as long as you are aware and safe.
emma

[Skystorm 0]

I jumped a fundive at another DZ and we went to 8000ft. I'm starting to do my 180-turns, which I am told is done at about 6000ft. When we jumped last weekend, I was sitting hotbox, looking out the door, thinking: "Man, I don't wanna jump, 5000ft is to low!!! (This from someone who, on her first SL didn't want to get out the door at 3500ft.)"
Now that I'm freefalling I deploy on 4000ft, maybe at 3500ft but that's my absolute lowest.

[Emma 0]

I think most people find that the more experience they get, the happier they are pulling a bit lower.
If you are happy with pulling at 3,500, stay with that for now, although eventually you'll probably find you get comfortable pulling at 2,500. If you tend to pull at 4k, your break off for formations will be 4,500 or 5,000, and that cuts out a lot of your skydive.
Plus, it can make it dangerous on big loads if you pull higher than everyone else...it SHOULDN'T, but it can.
In the old days when they didn't get 12,000 as a routine altitude for skydives, they would do demos from 1,500 feet...better planes, more altitude means we can take advantage of that and pull higher...or, we can get longer freefall time. In a normal skydive I would break at 3,500 or 4,000 and deploy at 2,500.
Emma

[mouth 0]

I'm with Shark in that I jump a Spectre. I was doing realy tight pack jobs but with nothing rolled which would take from 800-1200 to open. I've started pulling out the nose and not even trying to make the pack tight and have it to 500-900. All this said...anything below 2000 I would go but it would be on silver with both hands. I wouldn't mind going out at 1000 if there was an emergency but I don't think I would do it by choice. 2,500 would be my lowest choice.

[Aviatrr 0]

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In the old days when they didn't get 12,000 as a routine altitude for skydives, they would do demos from 1,500 feet...better planes, more altitude means we can take advantage of that and pull higher...or, we can get longer freefall time. In a normal skydive I would break at 3,500 or 4,000 and deploy at 2,500.

On freefly jumps, I am perfectly happy with breaking at 4k and pulling at 2.5 or so.. With my current canopy, I'm happy pulling as low as 2k.. My canopy takes 500ft to open.. It gives me time to determine whether or not I have a good canopy, chop if necessary, and get under my reserve by 800ft or so.. I don't normally pull at 2k(2.5 is my norm), but don't have a problem with it if required..
A lot of it depends on your experience and canopy type.. I sure wouldn't normally pull at 2k on a Spectre or Spinneto..
Mike

[ClayFowler 0]

I would say that anywhere below 2,000 ft is getting in the unsafe category. The only reason this is safe is that you are both riding the forward throw of the aircraft and subterminal when you deploy. In military static line from 800 ft you cover about 256 ft (altitude loss with an exit speed of 130 knts indicated +/- 5)on average before your chute should be fully deployed. About 4 seconds. With a free fall rig you obviously eat up more altitude but I think you could easily be open by 1500. With a subterminal rate of fall I believe this leaves you a decent safety margin to deploy a reserve. I dont see doing a hop&pop below 3,000 unless there is some real "reason" for it. As far as emergencies, 500 ft or better and I'm riding the reserve. Of course, pick on open spot on the ground before you get out as you may not have much time to turn before your feet hit the ground. Remember....altitude is your friend!

[Grogs 0]

2000' is about the lowest I'd go on a fun jump hop-n-pop. In an emergency, I'd probably go 1500' or higher on the main. For the reserve, I'd go however low the pilot told me to get out.

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What is the lowest you will exit in an emergency? Let's say the plane is on fire - and it's a 50/50 chance that the pilot will be able to land it..

Just a word of caution on the aircraft emergencies. Unless the situation is hopeless (i.e. a wing falls off) don't go hopping out of the plane unless the pilot says to. It's possible that if you just open the door to get out you can turn a plane that could have landed safely into one that will definitely go in.

[Aviatrr 0]

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Just a word of caution on the aircraft emergencies. Unless the situation is hopeless (i.e. a wing falls off) don't go hopping out of the plane unless the pilot says to. It's possible that if you just open the door to get out you can turn a plane that could have landed safely into one that will definitely go in.

I guess I probably should have added something like that - but I figured everybody would just kinda know.. If the situation looks bad enough to me, I'll be getting out whether the pilot says so or not.. I have enough experience in aviation that I feel that I can evaluate the situation and determine whether or not it's hopeless or not.. This is not accounting for pilot skill - but, then again, I usually know the pilots I jump with and their abilities..
When the shit hits the fan, the people in the back may be the last thing the pilot is thinking about.. I speak from personal experience here as a pilot.. I had my hands full flying the airplane..
Mike

[PhillyKev 0]

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It seems that there are waaaaaaay too many people that are absolutely terrified of low exits..

Well....I'll tell you exactly why, from my perspective anyway. I just finally did my low solo on Sunday. That was my 24th jump. I was not scared at all, although I was terrified 2 weeks prior. The reason being...all my jumps had been from 13,500 with a deployment altitude of 5,500. Then all of a sudden they want me to do a solo jump from lower then my lowest deployment. Scared the hell out of me. Also...all my exits up to that point had been from inside the plane, facing forward, grabbing the edge of the door frame, with just my head outside. So you're jumping from no wind into the relative wind. Not the best recipe for stability.
Those were the reasons I was scared. Reasons I wasn't when I finally did it is because I did 6 jumps with skydive U first. Was breaking off at 5000 and pulling at 4000. Also was exiting middle float, so climbed out into the wind, and just step off the plane into perfect poised exit. Did my exit that way for the low solo, and not even a nervous twinge. I even had my head hanging out the door practicing spotting before climbing out.
Bottom line is they expect you to get out of the plane as a newbie at a lower altitude then you are used to pulling at. I think the last couple of AFF jumps should bring you down to 4 grand for the pull so you don't have that fear of being in freefall below 5 grand. Also, teach you how to climb out for exit. Doing those 2 things before hand eliminated the fear for me.
cielos azules y cerveza fría
-Kevin

[jhus 0]

I personally look to the pilot when I am deciding if I want to get out of the aircraft. There are three phrases I listen for from the pilot that indicate I am leaving...
"Get Out!"
"Oh F#ck!"
"Holy Sh#t!"
Also, if I look at the cockpit and the pilot is no longer there... well I don't think he fell out by accident!
Fun hop and pop altitude is still 3000' for me. I could go lower, but that is not so much fun. There is obviously no "basement" for an emergency. Even if my odds are only 1 in 100 that I have enough altitude for reserve inflation- that is still better than my odds of surviving a plane crash. Although in a truly hopeless situation, there is a high probability that the plane is spinning. And if the plane is spinning, it could very well be impossible for all of the jumpers to make it to the door/ open the door.

Anybody know how the reserve performs compared to base equipment? I would guess that the reserve is designed to open as quickly or even quicker than base equipment- and if so you could be pretty darn low and still have a high chance of inflation.
jhus

[PLFKING 3]

After training via static/line, low hop-n-pops don't concern me -- I know I can get stable quickly.
As for emergency procedures, once we climb to 700 ft, I take off my seat belt. I'm with jhus in the fact that I figure my chances are better outside the plane than in, especially since I mostly jump from Cessnas. At 700, I'm pulling silver as soon as my head is below the step.
The PLF Parliamentarian

[flyingferret 0]

I still fondly remember the 2-way AggieDave and I pulled at 4k. I would gladly do it again. But, we were both trained on S/L. I think that is one disadvantage to AFF, students are almost scared of deploying where we do all our static line jumps.
My lowest hop and pop thus far was at 2.3, and I pulled going through 2. My lowest preferred altitude for hop and pop would be 2.5, but if the clouds started to sink while I was in the plane I would go as low as 2. This is with one qualification -- I packed for sub-terminal. I jump a Sabre and the opening time varies greatly based on the packjob. Terminal jumps usually give me at least 500feet. I have packed subterminal and been open probably 100 or 200 feet under the plane.
Honestly, I am not sure where the USPA recommended open container altitude is, it used to be 2K, but I do remember that malfunction decision altitude is at 1800, and cutaway at 1600. I am sure you could cut these in half and do fine, but I would not do it without reason.
In an emergency, 50/50 chance, I would probably go out as low as 750, but I would be pulling as I stepped off. After all remember a Cypres fires at 750, but that is counting on terminal velocity. Leaving a flailing plane you will not have that. I am not so much worried about the chute, but the altitude loss while on the step and pulling.
Malachi

[skymedic 0]

It is not that I am afraid of low altitude it is just I prefer to exit higher. if need be I will be out that door in a heart beat!!!
Marc
A-38578

[DBTECH 0]

It should be noted here that bridge day jumps are done from less than 900 feet with zero initial airspeed for a fast pilot chute-bag launch--I know they use larger pilot chutes, but I think you get the point here.
On a good/fast hop & pop done at 75 knots min indicated airspeed, you should be at line stretch thirty to sixty feet below the aircraft. The first second, you only drop 16 feet. At the end of two seconds your total fall is 64 feet. (nominal)
Dave Brownell,
Mesa, AZ
Edited by DBTECH on 7/23/01 10:39 PM.

[Geoff 0]

BASE gear (and CRW) can be tuned for a range of deployment speeds (different sliders and PCs), but can be made to open a LOT faster than a reserve. A reserve can't be made to open too fast because it needs to be survivable if deployed at terminal.
I know CRW jumpers who tune their gear for VERY fast openings, and it could be dangerous or fatal to try to deploy at terminal. Their procedure is that if for any reason they delay more than a few seconds, they'll use the reserve rather than the main in order to get a SLOWER opening.
Geoff

[wildblue 4]

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In an emergency, 50/50 chance, I would probably go out as low as 750, but I would be pulling as I stepped off. After all remember a Cypres fires at 750, but that is counting on terminal velocity. Leaving a flailing plane you will not have that. I am not so much worried about the chute, but the altitude loss while on the step and pulling.

You do know if you left the plane at 750 ft your cypres would never fire, right? And you only need to hit about 80 mph for it to fire.
Back to the original question - For fun hop n pops, I like 3k or more. Anything less than that just doesn't seem as fun.
Emergency exit - under 1000 feet I'd just pull silver. I'd probably get out as low as 500. Depends on speed of the airplane too.

[Michele 1]

Hi, guys.
I am still in AFF, and while we do pull high (5k) for the first few jumps, we are "worked down" to a pull altitude of 4-4.5k by our graduation jump. We are taught to pull high so that we are able to have more time to identify and correct (if possible) any partial malfunction. We 'dents need a bit more time to remember things, such as "look at your canopy when it opens". Also, if we separate from our jm's at 5 (in the begining), they have time to track away from us and pull, leaving themselves some room to handle any problems *they* may encounter. They also need to be on the ground way before us so that they can help guide us in via radio for the first 4 or 5 jumps.
On the other hand, I do have a concern about pulling lower than 4k. But I think that after a few times in the air alone (alone???????) I will be able to modify my brain enough to pull around 3.5k.
However, if there is an emergency on the way up, I will do as I am told - and leave if told to. I don't plan on being the one left as I see the other jumpers pitching out.....I'm rght there, and will pull silver if lower than 1500 (which is what we're taught). Higher than that, I will pull main with about a heatbeat's delay (unless we're at a height higher than my pull alti).
Just a thought or two.
ciel bleu-
Michele

[Cessnadog 0]

Drug a 4-way off from 2300 once.