Pammi 0 #1 February 26, 2002 I started to link this to a post, but decided to do it this way instead...just food for thought:My opinion only...as is everything else said here, opinions, viewpoints, views...I, personally, *like* that we can post likes and dislikes about a DZ, manufacturer or whatever the case may be. That's what these forums are about right? You post your views, someone else posts theirs...then the rest of us are able to make our own decisions from there. There are many out there who don't think it's right to post things that are, perhaps, controversial, but shouldn't this be a place to discuss these things, something more then just boobies? Without these forums, I would not have had the opportunity to see many viewpoints on everything form gear to DZ's. I personally want to hear all the perspectives and ideas of anyone who wants to express them, good and bad. The more information, the more informed my decisions. You know the talk is going on anyway, even without it being right here in the open. Isn't it better that it is where YOU can say what you think if you like, rather then not being able to perhaps give another viewpoint to the rumors?Say your piece and let us make our own decisions. We will anyway, ya know.Closing pin jewelry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
harro 0 #2 February 26, 2002 Freedom of choice and thought!!Freemind, freesky, freebeer, freefly, freesex Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazerq3 0 #3 February 26, 2002 I agree with yo Pammi... It if one can give all the good about a product/DZ/ whatever then one should also be ablee to give the bad. Now I dont mean down right bashing the person place or thing , But if you have a lagit beef with something then speak up. As long as things are done it tack and not meant to ridecule aor hurt something, then I dont see the problem. I'm sorry but the skydiving world is not a prefect world and when things go wrong I think they should be allowed to be addressed. And if someone doesnt like it ...well then state your case. But explain why you dont like what is being said . Just dont come on and say ....." OH I dont think you should be saying that"............To me someon that doesnt want the truth to be heard may be because they have something to hide!!!jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingbunky 3 #4 February 26, 2002 i agree wholeheartedly, everyone should be able to express their thoughts, and thanks to hh, we have a place where skydivers can sound off amongst themselves. the only problem with this forum (and EVERY other forum on the web), is that some people like to express their lack of thoughts, we have all seen the posts from some moron that just wants to troll for a response. i've witnessed some personal bashing going on, but out moderators are usually quick and judicious in locking the thread and directing the combatants to pm. all in all, this is a happy place "Jumping out of planes for the thrill of it all."-J.Geils Band Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #5 February 26, 2002 pammi:i'm sure to be scorched for this (as i usaually am for anything i say) but because you asked.i'm in total agreement to EVERYTHING you said, and the way you stated it. the thing is you have to be careful, because if your not one of the "in people" you'll probably be chastised, if not completely bashed. i know of several instances to where certain situations/attitudes have occured because of others expressing there views, not only in this forum, but other's like it.i know a bunch of people here dislike me......but they don't know me, the same way i don't know you. i know of you only what you write here, not because of a personal friendship, etc...it would be hard for me to completely form an opinion of someone else, just because "joe-blow" said he/she is an asshole, or piss-poor sky diver. i started this sport (41) late in life, and i've been involved in many different sports in my life, but this is the most egotistical sport of all, but that's just one of the aspects that draws me to it like a moth to a flame.my one wish, if any here responding to you posts, is to say "get to know someone, BEFORE you think you know them." first impressions mean a lot, but are not always a good rule of thumb to judge character by.R.G.P.S.my dad served in the military for 22 years before retiring, he was a SFC, we were based out of pendleton, san diego california (where i was born) he always said to others "i may not agree with everything you have to say, but i will defend to the death, your right to say it" a most profound statement, by a patriotoc individual. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hooked 0 #6 February 26, 2002 Well said. I think that hearing both sides of an issue, makes us think a little more and make wiser decisions.J Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #7 February 26, 2002 Hey Pammi...I don't have anything against posting opinions and such. But saying things like, "This DZ is unsafe," without any real backup scares me, because it's so subjective. At least twice I've seen really bad things posted about DZs that I'm familiar with that are out-and-out wrong.On the other hand, saying "I think this rig is unsafe, and here's why..." doesn't bother me, because it's clearly an opinion.Anyhow...I, personally, don't have a problem with something like AndyMan's story about SDC down there, and I'm especially glad other people chimed in with another take on the situation. Whatever happened, it's food for thought. They say there are three sides to every story: His, hers, and the truth.I, too, am hungry for info about DZs and gear manufacturers and the like. But I just hope people are responsible about posting information for all to see. There are a ton of people who read these forums, and we are essentially publishing our comments. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 4 #8 February 26, 2002 AmenJust remember, you can't believe everything you read or hear. And most people are more likely to post bad stuff about a dz/gear/vendor than good stuff. As always, do your own homework, find things out for yourself before you make a decision.Never argue with stupid people.They just drag you down 2 their level & beat you with experience Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beachbum 0 #9 February 26, 2002 I agree wholeheartedly with Pammi's post, and some of the other thoughts expressed ... is our right to speak our mind (thanks HH!) .. whether we used it prior to opening our mouths or not. Quote mindless better they do it on here than in the air with me!!PS ... rgoper ... I think you oughta go with the misspelled version ... Groper seems so much more appropriate in here!! ... LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #10 February 26, 2002 i hear ya brother...LOL :)R.G. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #11 February 26, 2002 Pammi~So well put! Knowledge equals power, but unfortunetly what is lacking in all forums such as this is "nuance". I am all for people expressing their opinion, it is their perfect right, just as it is mine and yours. We are all fortunate to have a place such as this to express these opinions. As you stated so elequently, we will all make up our own minds anyway. It sure is nice though to hear different views on many subjects, so that we can make a more informed decision. Perhaps even see things in a way that we haven't thought of before. As to the "unpopular" folks...well as far as I am concerned EVERYONE is a friend until they prove otherwise.Peace Out sista!It only takes a little pixie dust...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iflyme 0 #12 February 26, 2002 Quotehe always said to others "i may not agree with everything you have to say, but i will defend to the death, your right to say it" A very popular saying ... in fact I said it just yesterday in another thread...Pammi, I agree that we all must have the freedom here to speak our minds (thanks, Bossman), but we must also be careful in how we interpert the information we gather here... People can manipulate the truth, provide mis-information, lie, and even attack others for the sole purpose of personal gain, or revenge, or intimidation. But knowledge is power, and the more we know, the better informed we are to find our own truths. I've learned more here than I have on my own DZ, and I'm very glad to have the guidance of the hig-timers here. Thanks to you all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #13 February 26, 2002 QuoteMy opinion only...as is everything else said here, opinions, viewpoints, views...GO PAMMI GO PAMMI !!!!!!I can only hope that when people write negative comments about DZ's or gear or whatever, they try and get all the information before they go off half cocked and only make matters worse.I only bring this up because it is very personal to me, but I was extremely upset about some who formed an opinion about my DZ , and a very close friend of mine based on a post from someone who did not know the whole story.It was a good learning experience for me not only because of the issues that were discussed (pro's AND cons) but also because it proved to me that even the most experienced people here post rash opinions based on little to no credible information at times. Heck, even I am just as guilty for throwing my .02 in where it shouldn't have been. But that is the whole point, they are nothing more than opinions. These events helped reinforce my resolve to take all the information in first, sit back, mull it over and ONLY then form my own opinion. I still value these people's opinions, but I will not take them as gospel eitherC'est la vieStill a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #14 February 26, 2002 That is the key to all of this....take it all in and decide for your self...and dont accept it as gospel eather.....marcBSBD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #15 February 26, 2002 AMEN brotherStill a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Billy 0 #16 February 26, 2002 Pammi Ya Rock,, an Sangiro,, again another thanks,, Don't read this shit down here,, it's nonsense,,, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #17 February 26, 2002 I for one, have been chastised many a times.Thank god the search function doesn't go back that long. I've always had strong beliefs in what I think is right. Not necessarily correct, but morally and ethically right. The one thing that I can guarantee, is that I will always voice those opinions either in person or in print.Whether or not people chose to listen is a lesson in discretion to the reader. _AmICQ: 5578907MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 4 #18 February 26, 2002 Quotebecause if your not one of the "in people" you'll probably be chastised, if not completely bashed.Couldn't disagree more with this comment. The "in crowd" is who you perceive them to be. There are hundreds of posters on these boards who never gets chastised, simply because they always, even when in disagreement, show respect to others. It's not difficult to do a quick search, look at what people have been contributing in the past and figure out who the common denominators are in a lot of the threads that goes south. Quotei know a bunch of people here dislike me......but they don't know meYou're right, in forums like these people can only "know" the version of "you" that you present to them. So why do you think your comment above is true? Is there a plot against you, or do you think you may have been presenting a version of "you" that makes people react like that?Richard, you're not a victim.Safe swoopsSangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #19 February 26, 2002 hey pammi i am very shocked that merrick letcha outta the kitcheni must say everyone here(and other CONTROVERSIAL posts) have been very harmonius. even when their views are 180* out of tolerance! its pretty cool to see everyone playing nice and sharing their crayons! getting high is fun, but coming down is the best partJT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #20 February 26, 2002 HH:i'll be glad when you get off of that "your not a victim" b.s. i'm not trying to portray myself in that manner. i was speaking in general terms.R.G. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 4 #21 February 26, 2002 Quotei know a bunch of people here dislike me......but they don't know me...and so forth. Sounds pretty much to me like you're talking about yourself and not in general. You and I have had some of this conversation in private which, as always, I will gladly publish. My patience has run out with you. Stop whining and contribute positively or move on.You can pick a fight with me on these forums if you want, but that's a little bit like pissing into the wind. You may remember this discussion?Safe swoopsSangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #22 February 26, 2002 Pammi, well put. And points taken. Sometimes we need a reminder of this. But "me" is the only one I can control. Thank you.Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scratch 0 #23 February 26, 2002 Quotethis discussionAs jy kak soek sal jy kak kryByt hom HH, byt hom. Laat die hond al die pad huistoe tjank.A bit of homegrown support Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #24 February 26, 2002 QuoteAs jy kak soek sal jy kak kryByt hom HH, byt hom. Laat die hond al die pad huistoe tjankHoly hell! Are you alright? Did you fall on your keyboard? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 4 #25 February 26, 2002 QuoteHoly hell! Are you alright? Did you fall on your keyboard? Bwaahahahahaaa!Dankie scratch!Safe swoopsSangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
