Red Bull Commercial

[james1010 0]

I've have'nt been in this sport too long, however, I have researched it to an almost obsessive level. One thing I know is that skydiving is fundamentally safe and that most people react to it on a gut level as can be seen in the Red Bull commercial where two skydivers hammer in. Do you things things like that put the sport in a bad light, or do you think that's just how most people will always view skydiving?
Just Curious...
James

[Jimbo 0]

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One thing I know is that skydiving is fundamentally safe and that most people react to it on a gut level as can be seen in the Red Bull commercial where two skydivers hammer in.

Uh. What ever gave you the idea that skydiving is fundamentally safe? Skydiving, is by it's very nature, fundamentally dangerous. Every time we leave the aircraft we're dead, unless we manage to fix a very dangerous situation. We as skydivers do what we can to minimize the risk, but to suggest for even a moment that skydiving is safe, well, you're doing a disservice to the community and more importantly to yourself.
As for the Red Bull commercial,I haven't seen it and can't comment.

[quade 3]

Well, I've seen it and that particular commercial I find odd since Red Bull is a corporate sponsor of so many skydiving events.
quade
http://futurecam.com

[billvon 2,434]

>One thing I know is that skydiving is fundamentally safe . . .
It's not. You can die doing this even if you do everything right. If you make even one major mistake, in fact, you're _probably_ going to die.
>Do you things things like that put the sport in a bad light, or do you think that's
>just how most people will always view skydiving?
If it makes people think skydiving is dangerous, and you shouldn't do it unless you're prepared to risk injury or death, then it is doing the sport a service.
-bill von

[james1010 0]

Didn't at all mean to offend anyone, I simply meant that the risk seems to be extremely minimized these days before one even steps into the airplane. I'm well aware of the risk involved, my point was that it is not at all as the general public views it to be . . . don't you think, or am I way off base and should just get back to work?

[weber 0]

Even though this sport is a dangerous one, I often feel in more danger driving to the DZ than I do jumpinng out of a plane at 13,000 feet.

[quade 3]

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Even though this sport is a dangerous one, I often feel in more danger driving to the DZ than I do jumpinng out of a plane at 13,000 feet.

Perception is not always reality.
quade
http://futurecam.com

[Jessica 0]

I've seen the commercial. It makes me laugh. Red Bull ads are so hyper and surreal.
Hey, anything that furthers my rep among the whuffos as a death-defying badass is cool with me.
The door is open
We are way the fuck up here
Might as well get out.
~ FallingMarc

[rgoper 0]

unfortunately sports like x-games, and the like are dominating todays head lines, i'm sure redbull (since it is dubbed a high energy drink) is playing off of this. they want everybody to think if your involved in an extreme sport the're drink can take you to the next level of your danger potential. who knows anymore. i'm really surprised we don't have canopy comercials on t.v. targeting the sky diving community, i bet if they did, our fatality rate would increase threefold in the first year.
Richard
"Just Some Random Thoughts, Nothing Pertinent"

[TEB6363 0]

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It's not. You can die doing this even if you do everything right. If you make even one major mistake, in fact, you're _probably_ going to die.

Wow, Bill, you in a black mood today???
I skydive because it is fun, I like working with students, and where else can you waste hours of your life away on a cloudy day??
:::OK, Canopy is Open, No Traffic Around, .. Why are these "Extra" Lines Draping Down??, Damn!

[billvon 2,434]

>Wow, Bill, you in a black mood today???
No, not at all. But it's important to remember that you can die doing this. I start all my classes out with that - that you can die, and that although there is no 100% sure way to guarantee you won't, if you listen to the class and do the stuff we tell you to do, you have a really good chance of having no problems.
Most of us jump because we want to, because it's fun - and because we've decided that it's worth the risk of injury and death. It's important to remember that there _is_ a decision to make there. Too many jumpers get into the sport without really thinking through what the consequences of a mistake are.
-bill von

[skybytch 259]

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Wow, Bill, you in a black mood today???

I don't see that as "black" - that's being realistic. Skydiving is NOT a safe sport. I think it is doing everyone - skydiver and whuffo alike - a disservice to claim otherwise.
pull & flare,
lisa

[james1010 0]

" if you listen to the class and do the stuff we tell you to do, you have a really good chance of having no problems."
My original point exactly . . that and the FACT that most people do not realize that. So why can't you promote the sport as safe yet somewhat risky? Isn't that exactly what the USPA has been doing for years?
Just want your thoughts, don't beat me up.
James

[rapper4mpi 0]

James, not to worry, sometimes people on here get a little worked up. You must take everything with a grain of salt and be sure not to take anything too seriously. Skydiving IS dangerous, and yes you CAN die, BUT it is safer than the perception that is out there in the general public. Some people want that perception kept intact to keep new jumpers from entering the sport (or at least letting it get mainstream) others want to demystify these perceptions. Either way, as long as you are aware of the risks, that is all that really matters.
-Rap

[billvon 2,434]

>My original point exactly . . that and the FACT that most people do not realize
> that. So why can't you promote the sport as safe yet somewhat risky?
Well, because "safe" and "risky" are opposites, so it's hard to claim it's both. You can express it in terms of relative risk - it's more dangerous than driving, a little less dangerous than flying a small plane (in terms of a typical active GA pilot vs a typical active skydiver.)
Is it safe? No. Is it risky? Since you can die even if you do nothing (i.e. don't pull) and it's much more dangerous than driving, I'd have to say yes. Is it very risky? Compared to general aviation, no.
>Isn't that exactly what the USPA has been doing for years?
I often disagree with what USPA is doing. I disagree, for example, that skydiving should be a mainstream sport, despite an advertising campaign by USPA to push just that attitude.
-bill von

[Jimbo 0]

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So why can't you promote the sport as safe yet somewhat risky?

Because it's not safe. What part of throwing yourself out of an airplane at 2,000 ft or higher is safe? It's a dangerous sport, there's just no two ways about that. Like Bill said, "You can do everything right and still die", what about that isn't dangerous? It's dangerous and it's way beyond 'somewhat risky'. Because in a year _most_ skydivers don't die, doesn't make this sport any less dangerous, that is a testament to the advanced training and gear that we now enjoy.
Any actuary can tell you exactly how dangerous skydiving is.
What about this sport seems safe to you? I'm not trying to scare you or anyone else away, but if you go into this sport thinking it's safe I fear you won't be around long enough to promote that opinion.
-
Jim

[skybytch 259]

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Because in a year _most_ skydivers don't die, doesn't make this sport any less dangerous, that is a testament to the advanced training and gear that we now enjoy.

And... deaths are not the only issue. You can do everything right and still be seriously injured. You can make one minor mistake in judgement and be seriously injured. People who think they want to skydive need to know that.
I agree with Bill. Skydiving should not be promoted as a mainstream or "safe" sport. It's not and never will be.
pull & flare,
lisa

[james1010 0]

" Because in a year _most_ skydivers don't die, doesn't make this sport any less dangerous, that is a testament to the advanced training and gear that we now enjoy."
er . . umm . . advanced training and gear make the sport alot less dangerous, I'm pretty sure that's the reason for ongoing advances . . to reduce the risk and make the sport safer and therefore more enjoyable. Sorry to strike a cord with you, but my view of skydiving doesn't cause me to be any less aware of the risk. I know impacting the ground at 120 will kill you, but I also KNOW the chances of that happening are slim, especially with excellent training and gear.

[MyUserID 0]

Whoa,
I think all that he originally meant is that the media and the general population seem to believe that skydivers have the mortality rate of rookie WWI fighter pilots. Dont be so quick to start the flaming. I'm sure he respects the sport and knows of it's dangers. And if not, may God/ Allah/ Rah/ Buddah/ etc. have mercy on his soul.

[PhreeZone 15]

There has actully been more then a few fatilities where the impact with the ground was less then 5 mph and these people are still dead...
Skydiving is not safe, not it all a matter of weighing the difference between the percieved danger and the actual danger. Some times the percieved danger is slight while in fact the real danger is high. Some times the percived danger is higher then the real danger.
Who cares what the general public thinks? Some of my family thinks that flying is super dangerous and will only drive places. If they truely seek out info about flying they will see how wrong they are, but driving suits them fine and thats great... I'm not going to try to convince them other wise.
Most people will never try the sport and if making it seem a bit dangerous keeps a few law suit happy people away... all the better.... "Hey.. Its my camera, and my remote... I'll rewind if I want to!" ~ Goat #2

[Jimbo 0]

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I know impacting the ground at 120 will kill you, but I also KNOW the chances of that happening are slim, especially with excellent training and gear.

You're right, impacting the ground at 120MPH will almost certianly kill you. Have you thought about what else in this sport might kill you, or worse, maim you for life, or even just brake a bone requiring a visit to the hosipital?
* Airplane accidents?
* In air collisions?
* Premature deployments?
* Failure to properly execute your emergency procedures?
* Impact with the ground because you simply mistimed your flare?
* Impact with the ground due to a low turn, intentional or not?
* Gear failure? It happens too.
* Off landings in power lines, trees, or against buildings?
There are more possibilities than I mentioned here, in fact this list could go on forever.
It's just not a safe sport, something to think about....
-
Jim

[MyUserID 0]

NOTHING!! In the world is safe. Everything causes cancer, germs float around everywhere, people want to kill you, other people are ignorant and will kill you accidentally, you could be seriously mamed while simply taking a wiz as a meteor crashes through your roof and hits you while yer sitting on the can. Life is a risk. The risk is not that you will die. It is that you will die without ever having really lived. Yes safety is important in the sport, no it's not safe (what is?), but come on, he was making an innocent comment about a commercial here. His point: skydiving does not kill everybody on 100% of every jump made as portrayed. That's it.

[billvon 2,434]

>I think all that he originally meant is that the media and the general population
>seem to believe that skydivers have the mortality rate of rookie WWI fighter
> pilots.
And here's where a WWI rookie fighter pilot would weigh in and say "Now just a minute! Our aircraft were a lot safer than WWII Spitfires, and our fatality rate was a lot lower than skydivers of the 1950's . . ."
I think most skydivers and most people would agree that skydiving is risky. The big difference is ignorance and fear. Most people are 99% ignorant of what skydiving is all about. If they are forced to deal with this on a daily basis (i.e. they see ads about it all the time, they see it in the olympics, they are bombarded by the media) they will fear it, because everyone fears what they don't understand. (BTW that's a good reason to keep it _out_ of the mainstream.)
We understand it, so we don't fear it very much. That's the primary difference between skydivers and whuffos - not the idea that skydiving is dangerous, but the understanding and acceptance of those odds. Heck, if you ask me, I think doing drugs makes you an imbecile, to take those kinds of risks with your body and brain for a momentary good feeling. Since I've never done them I suspect that's primarily ignorance on my part. If I had more experience with drugs, maybe I wouldn't think less of someone who did them. That would _not_ make them any safer to do.
-bill von

[Jimbo 0]

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NOTHING!! In the world is safe.

Since we use the term 'safe' as a relative term then actually a lot of things are 'safe'. Relative to other activities skydiving is _not_ safe. As someone pointed out it might be 'safer' than GA, but it's certainly not safer than driving, flying on a commercial jet, bowling, eating dinner, etc...

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His point: skydiving does not kill everybody on 100% of every jump made as portrayed. That's it.

How do you know what his point was?

[MyUserID 0]

Fair enough Bill.