Injury at Perris

[skybytch 259]

A jumper with about 150 jumps hooked in today at Perris. At last report he was in a drug induced coma with pelvic and facial injuries, and he may lose sight in one eye.
He was 200 pounds+ on a Crossfire 139. It was about his 15th-20th jump on it.
pull & flare,
lisa
---
On the other hand...you have different fingers

[skybytch 259]

A few more things about this incident/jumper.
He made his first jump about five months ago and did at least 10 jumps every week, most weeks closer to 20 - so he was very current. He was considered to be a heads up, competent canopy pilot. Since he obviously can't talk right now, no one knows why he chose to grab a front riser and turn at such a low altitude.
Had he been flying a larger and/or less aggressive canopy he probably would have limped away from the impact... or at least ridden to the hospital with lesser injuries. He was loading the Crossfire at around 1.5...
pull & flare,
lisa
---
On the other hand...you have different fingers

[ChromeBoy 0]

Great vibes are being sent his way. May he be ok and practice swooping again!
Don't Drink and Post...It's the Law.

[freeflir29 0]

Ouch......That sucks.
"It's all about the BOOBIES!"

[carbonezone 0]

<<>>>
FIRST OFF: LET MY SAY WELL WISHES TO THE INJURED JUMPER AND MAY HE HAVE A SPEEDY RECOVERY!
SECOND OFF: I DON’T USUALLY VENT OR STRESS MY FEELINGS ON A PUBLIC FORUM AS I AM ABOUT TO:
“”THIS FUCKING SHIT SUCKS AND NEEDS TO FUCKING STOP NOW”” (SORRY) !!!!
MOST INJURIES TO THESE YOUNGER JUMPERS COULD BE PREVENTED. ITS KIND OF LIKE THE “FRIENDS DON’T LET FRIENDS DRINK AND DRIVE ” SURE WE ALL DO IT BUT… IF YOUR FRIENDS WERE FALLING DOWN DRUNK AND NOT EVEN ABLE TO STAND UP, WOULD YOU LET THEM GET IN A CAR???? “”I SURE WOULDN’T””

I ONLY HOPE THAT ALL OF YOU EXPERIENCED JUMPERS ARE LISTENING TO THESE YOUNGER JUMPERS WHEN THEY START TALKING ABOUT THE GEAR THEY WANT TO BUY AND JUMP.
I ONLY HOPE THAT IF THEY ARE GOING WAY OVER THEIR HEADS (YOU) TRY TO TALK THEM OUT OF IT “WITH CLEAR REASONS WHY”.
I CONSIDER MYSELF A “YOUNGER JUMPER” WITH 700 JUMPS. I LISTEN TO AND RESPECT MY ELDER JUMPERS ADVICE AND INPUT.
I JUMP WITH AND COACH LOTS OF (JUST OFF STUDENT STATUS JUMPERS). THEY ARE SO VULNERABLE TO GETTING SUCKED INTO DANEROUS SITUATIONS REGARDING MAIN / RESERVE CANOPIES. I HAVE HEARD THE 100 JUMP WONDERS ALL BIG AND BAD SAYING “ I WANT A SMALLER CANOPY, THEY ARE SO COOL…..I AM GONA SWOOP IF IT KILLS ME”. WE NEED TO “TRY” AND SET THEM STRAIGHT!
ANYONE WHO KNOWS ME KNOWS THAT I TALK AND TALK AND TALK TO THESE KIDS ABOUT THE BAD DECISIONS THEY ARE ABOUT TO MAKE.
<<>>
WE AS THE MORE EXPERIENCED JUMPERS NEED TO MAKE AN EFFORT IN ASSISTING AND EVEN FORCING THE RIGHT DECISIONS THAT THESE JUMPERS ARE MAKING.
I KNOW THAT I PERSONALLY HAVE PROBABLY SAVED AT LEAST 1 DOZEN NEWER 100 (+/-) JUMPERS INJURIES BECAUSE THEY LISTENED AND BOUGHT OR JUMPED CONSERVATIVE GEAR. AS FAR AS I AM CONSERNED THAT IS MY CONRIBUTION TO THIS SPORT.
I UNDERSTAND THAT WE CANNOT CONTROLL WHAT EVERYONE WILL BUY. ALL I ASK IS GRAB THESE KIDS AND SHAKE THEM IF YOU HAVE TO “AND BELIEVE ME….SOMETIMES THAT IS WHAT IT TAKES”. JUST TALK TO THEM AND DO WHAT YOU CAN TO GUIDE THEM IN SAFEST DIRECTION. IT WON’T WORK FOR ALL OF THEM BUT IT MAY FOR SOME -- MAYBE EVEN ONE AND THAT COUNTS.
SLAM ME AND YELL AT ME IF YOU FEEL THE NEED “I DON’T GIVE A FUCK” I FEEL BETTER NOW AND WHO KNOWS…((MAYBE JUST ONE NEW SKYDIVER READ THIS AND LISTENED TO THIS POST))!
””THE SKYDIVE ISNT OVER UNTIL YOU HAVE LANDED””
BLUE SKIES SAFE DIVES AND HEAL FAST INJURED JUMPER <>
Scotty -n- Tami

[cloudseeker2001 0]

i am sorry this person is hurt but i fully agree with tami.
"remember when we were in africa"

[n2skdvn 0]

right on scotty!!! i my self try an help out the "younger" jumperson going right to a smaller canopy
but i also get weird looks when i tell people the size of my canopy 120 then i tell them the jumps i have 400+ and my weight 115 last i weighed my self people need to use their head and common sense when downsizing swooping can be fun but done wrong can kill!!!
my prayers are with our injured jumper hope he has a speedy recovery!
if ya can't dodge it RAM IT !!!!!!
click me

[rhino 0]

I hope he recovers quickly.. Best wishes to him and his fmily.
Blue Skies .....

[rhino 0]

I hope he recovers quickly.. Best wishes to him and his fmily.
Blue Skies .....

[Zennie 0]

Oh man, I'm so sorry. I hope he can fight it out.
My condolences.
"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

[Zennie 0]

I'm gonna share a little something in light of this and the other things that have happened this year.
I've been working on swooping for a while now. I've been doing it gradually, and had started to get the 180 snap hook dialed in. Then Chris had his accident.
This bothered me a lot. I enjoy swooping a lot, but I can't bear the thought of leaving Liz, my family and friends behind to deal with me in the hospital or worse because I botched a hook turn. So this weekend I started experimenting with less dramatic carving dives. It'll take a while to dial in, but I can tell they leave you a lot more wiggle room to make adjustments.
So I'm landing yesterday, and it was a little less windy than it has been lately, so my flares were a bit "stabbier" than normal. On two consecutive landings I had people say "Dude. Be Careful." or "Man, you're scaring me."
I'm thinking, huh? I was well out of the dive part and pretty much doing my normal flare. I wasn't digging out of a dive or anything, so what was spooking people?
So I sat down and talked to Trey (hookit) a bit. We reviewed the video of my last landing and talked about my flare technique. My "normal" flare is pretty much to wait until I'm at about 5-6 feet and then I hit the first half kinda hard to level it out and then I surf the rest. We figure since the winds were a litlle lower I had to stab at it harder to get it to plane out, and it probably looked jerky & panicked to the bystander.
In any event, I didn't think much of it, I've dragged my feet along the grass several times, but when you have several people saying something, it really is a good idea to listen. So Try & I talked some more about flare technique and I decided to try a "smoother" flare where I start the first half a little higher and really concentrate on geting a smooth stroke. After that my landings were a lot more controlled and looked a lot nicer. And nobody said anything so I must have been doingit right.
What I'm trying to get at is if people say something, don't get defensive (though this may be our initial reaction). They're saying these things because they care and don't want to see you get hurt. Try to figure out what exactly is the problem and see if there are ways to do it better. Have people watch you and evaluate technique.
In my case I just needed to smooth out the flare a tad. But who knows, if I had continued my "normal" method and eventally downsized, I might have gotten seriously injured coming in hot and mis-timing the flare. So I consider it a good thing.
"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

[Jessica 0]

Quote

What I'm trying to get at is if people say something, don't get defensive (though this may be our initial reaction).

This is a really good lesson, and I think one of the hardest for skydivers to learn. Buncha aggressive personalities. Even little ole low-jump-numbers me can't help but feel a wash of indignation when someone offers me unsolicited advice. Sometimes it's helpful, sometimes it's testosterone. But I always try to tamp down my ego and listen.
Anyway, thanks for posting that Zennie, and best wishes to that poor guy at Perris.
Taking nominations for new screen name.

[carbonezone 0]

Quote

I've been working on swooping for a while now. I've been doing it gradually, and had started to get the 180 snap hook dialed in

BINGO
Hats off to Trey for lending advice
Hats off to you for taking your time and respecting this sport, the potential dangers it brings, and also how dangerous things could hurt not only yourself but your family as well.
Keep up the Good / Safe Work!!
Scotty -n- Tami

[Zennie 0]

Quote

THEY ARE SO VULNERABLE TO GETTING SUCKED INTO DANEROUS SITUATIONS REGARDING MAIN / RESERVE CANOPIES.

It's not just the 100-ish jumpers. I'll share another story (sorry, I'm feeling talkative today).
A friend of mine wanted to borrow my jedei 136 to do some CRW because his main, a Crossfire 109 was too hot. So I lent it out to him.
But I was planning on doing a fun jump with some friends the next load and so I needed to find a rig. He said, "Just jump mine." I said, "I dunno. That's 2 downsizes." He said "Aw, you won't have any problems with it."
I almost took him up on it. I was really on the fence, and I talked to some friends and they all basically confirmed my gut feeling "Don't do it." So I didn't. I know the other jumper was being nice offering me his rig, and yeah I probably could have landed the thing, but shit happens and....what if? He was actually surprised when I said "Thanks but I think I'll find a bigger canopy."
I'm still a skydiving toddler at 280-odd jumps, but I was still very tempted to do something stupid. So the risk of doing something dumb doesn't end at 150 jumps. We're always tempted to go a little smaller, go a little faster. Listening to my instincts and talking to other skydivers might have saved me from an ambulance ride.
Listen to your instincts! Listen to your friends! They'll tell you what you need to hear when sometimes your own ego won't let you hear it.
"Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense."

[rhino 0]

Staying within your limits is very important.
But how does one define his or her limits? I enjoy testing myself but I don't like everytime I land a canopy to be a lesson or struggle in survival. As hook would say I would like my bag of experience to fill up before my bag of luck runs out.
I hate to see anyone get hurt in skydiving. Again I hope he recovers and all is well. Everytime this happens I take a step back and say is it worth it? To me it is for now.
Rhino
Blue Skies .....

[freeflir29 0]

Way to go Zennie and thanks to Trey for passing on the knowledge. Zennie.....not only will a smoother flare not look so scary. It will seriously improve the length of your swoop. Carves are the way to go. I've found that on this Stilletto it's the only way to land without putting myself at serious risk. Plus...they are damn fun and swooping 80 feet from a nice carve is the poop. Why hook it and expose yourself to all that risk? I'm all about carving until I get a canopy that builds less riser pressure and lets me do front riser dives. Swoop safe out there. It's hard to look cool in the back of an ambulance with tubes hanging out your nose. "It's all about the BOOBIES!"

[Michele 1]

Quote

We're always tempted to go a little smaller, go a little faster.

Not me, or at least, not yet. I like my "Volvo" canopy (rented Spectre 230) - as it was termed by someone else here. I think it was because I had seen so many injuries, and sat in the hospital with Sinister when he broke his leg badly. It may be also that I am Airweenie, and happy to be known as such.
I do know that most, if not all, of the jumpers who went through AFF when I did have been injured, or have left the sport for whatever reason. When I went back last month, after being off for a while, I asked around for these folks - and all but one had been injured. Dunno if it was a too small canopy, or conditions, or whatever, but that's a lot of people hurt.
What I can say is that peer pressure is huge in this sport - newbies look to someone who flies a tiny canopy, see them get the accolades, and want to do it too......we want a smaller, faster canopy, want to hook it to impress the spectators (and it is impressive), and want the feeling of not being "new" but "experienced" in the sport. We hang out with experienced jumpers, and "want to be like Mike" - but we're not yet ready for that. I don't mind being new...I do mind someone telling me that I need a smaller canopy, though. I figure there will be plenty of time for me to downsize - later, when I actually udnerstand the dynamics of how this shit works...and am completely in charge of my brain while in the air.
You know the old saying - "it's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, then in the air wishing you were on the ground"? I also say "it's better to be under a huge canopy wishing it were small, than under a small canopy wishing it were huge".
Just my .02, from a newbie perspective.
Ciels and Pinks-
Michele
If you really want to, you can seize the day; if you really want to, you can fly away...
~enya~

[freeflir29 0]

Quote

"want to be like Mike"

Being like Mike is OK if you are ready for it. If not....you may end up like "Dead Mike" LOL If anyone hasn't seen his web site...go find it!!!
"It's all about the BOOBIES!"

[QuickDraw 0]

Hehe.. that was one of the first sites i ever found.
Damn lucky to still be alive though.
http://www.deadmike.com/index.html
"Bart, stop pestering satan" - Marge Simpson.

[drenaline 0]

Best wishes for him and his family.
About the safety thing well, me been a new licensed jumper I gotta say that safety starts when you say the first "hello/hi" to your first S/L, AFF, tandem, IAD instructor and ends never. The instructor is like your guru, he takes a big part in safety awareness to the students and jumpers.
It all depends on what the jumpers see in the DZ, if they see conservative jumpers that do all the safety stuff by the book well thats what he's going to learn and teach and talk about (and even get mad when he sees others doing other stuff), but if he sees people doing crazy near death stuff and getting applauded well you can't blame him, cause thats what he sees and learns. (sorry for kinda repeating things)
I think that something good to do, would be that every time you talk about the great swoop you made, the 100-way that just happened, the freefall stuff you have just learned... try and always add a comment about safety and who knows maybe including examples of what has happened to others or even yourself. The more you talk about it the more we learn from others mistake.
"Life is full of danger, so why be afraid?"
drenaline

[KATO33 0]

Sending out the prayers and vibes for a speedy recovery.
Blue Skies Black Death

[sinister69 0]

hey all, i definately agree with the downsizing too early thing. I just got back in the air two weeks ago, and made two more jumps today. everything went great. I have never been in a hurry to downsize too quickly. I figure sticking with a 210 or 190 canopy is fine for me for the foreseeable future. I don't plan on going any smaller than a 190 canopy until at least my 300th jump. I know that probably seems slow to some of you, but I feel more comfortable with a larger canopy above my head.
Granted, I did break my leg while flying a 190, but that was my own fault due to a failure to flare when I should have. I don't believe that had anything to do with the canopy I was flying. If I was flying a smaller canopy I am sure I would have been more seriously injured. There were other factors like my foot hitting a tuft of grass and going under my butt and not being able to go anywhere else, so it snapped. If I had been flying a larger canopy and done the same thing, I am sure my leg would have still broken anyway.
I listen and learn what the older jumpers tell me. I thought I had started a decent flare when I broke my leg, but upon listening to others that saw what happened, I obviously hadn't. I now make sure that I get a decent flare going on final approach. I was also told some of the characteristics of the canopy I was flying, and have learned that a three stage flare should be used with it. I was attempting a one stage flare going straight from full flight to full flare on my landings. Since trying out the three stage flare, my landings are much better and slower than they have ever been.
take a tip from me, listen to people when they are trying to help you. It could save your life.
Blue Skies!
Sinister69
A-38927

[IronMike 0]

(sorry, I'm reposting this to the proper thread and took out all the queston marks that appeared when I cut and pasted from Word)
This jumper had closer to 250 jumps. He and I started AFF at the same time at Perris in December. We kind of joked with each other about how many jumps each other had and made it into kind of a 'race'. I have 210 now. We both are very aggressive types, I know he is very intelligent and I consider myself to be no moron. We are both professionals, same age, weight, and both fell hard and fast for this sport. We are both averaged 20 or so jumps a week and both downsized rather quickly.
I have been unable to think about anything else but him for the past 2 days because he is my friend and it is easy for me to imagine myself in his situation.. I am experiencing many emotions; the most prevalent one at this time is anger. I believe that there are a few reasons that it happened to him and not me. I do not believe it was the size of canopy that was the problem here. You would hook a 190 in if you do it at 75 feet. I believe education, or the lack of it, was the primary factor.
First and foremost, I have taken Jim Slayton's canopy course. Not more than a month ago, I was on a freefly with him and we got a long spot. We both were jumping Sabre 2 150's loaded at 1.4. I made it back and he didn't even come close. I asked him what he was doing and he told me he was in half brakes thinking this increased his glide ratio. I know he was uneducated on how to fly a canopy. He didn't start on front risers like I am still doing; he went straight to trying low hook turns. I remember that windy as hell non sky-diveable Saturday 2 months ago that I decided not to go to the lake and sit all hung over in Jim's class. I tried to convince him to come too. He didn't and went to the lake instead. What I learned that day was the most valuable training I have ever received. I have over 1000 flight hours in high performance aerobatic aircraft and have a low level air-show waiver but I learned things that make perfect aerodynamic sense but things that I would have not figured out on my own without breaking things. I am convinced, had he taken the class and got some jumps in with Clint Clawson like I did, this would not have happened. Furthermore, a class of this sort should be mandatory for an A license. Canopy flight is such a huge part of this sport and it is woefully unaddressed on the yellow card.
Second, I am a weekday jumper and he is a weekend jumper. I believe that the knowledge, advice and oversight I have received due to the fact that people like Eli, Jim, Craig O'Brien, all the staff at Square 1 etc...are on relaxed mode and have time to watch me and offer free advice. I have gotten tons of it and to have someone like JC come up to me and compliment me on a dull front riser landing makes me know I'm being safe.
Third, he hangs out with a group that had considerably more experience than he did and I feel he really wanted to 'catch up'. I just hang out with 'whoever' and end up jumping with anyone from beginners to world champs from jump to jump.
Please Please Please.....If you know someone attempting things that they have not been trained to do, STOP THEM!!! KICK THEIR ASS! whatever........You do not want to feel like all of his friends and I do right now. I told him a month ago that some people had said he was being too aggressive and he got mad at me and them for saying it. If ANYONE ever says anything like that to you, step back and reevaluate.

[Shark 0]

Bummer. Always seems like these Cinco de Mayo weekends always have a lot of injuries occurring. We even had one yesterday at Elsinore. And yes, the landing police were out in force. And it was a good thing. We hosted groups from all over the country, with most of them first timers at Elsinore. The early loads did not have much wind and the landing area was a zoo. Apparently, nobody paid attention to the landing patterns set and posted by the staff. It "straightend" out later, but it didn't prevent a later mishap. A jumper made a low turn, possibly to avoid traffic. I was packing at the time and didn't see it, but I did HEAR it. He did take a ride in the ambulance conscious, but at last word he had some injuries requiring surgery, but should be okay.
As many of you may already know, there was a fatality at last years Cinco de Mayo boogie. May be safety goes out the window when everyone is trying to get in as many jumps as they can get during the weekend. Then they become complacent, etc. Did I get my $150 worth this weekend? Well, I only got 6 jumps in and one of those comped by the school. None on Sunday as my car was acting up again. Haven't spoken to anybody about today's events as of yet, so I can only hope all went well.

[freeflyguy 0]

Nice post Mike. I can't agree more, hands on, eyes on instruction is imperative to being a safe canopy pilot.
Sorry about your buddy.
j