Macintosh G4 advice needed

[Milo 0]

Hey,
A friend of mine asked me for advice on buying a Macintosh G4 Powerstation for his niece, a Graphics Design student.
I hate to see him drop $3k for a dual 1ghz machine when a 733 mhz or even a 500 or dual 500 mhz might be sufficient.
The niece needs to run the latest versions of Illustrator and Photoshop. She'll need this machine for another 2.5 years, until she graduates.
I am unfamiliar with Macintoshes, the last Apple machine I touched was a 2C in 1987.
Would a 400, 500, or 733 mhz machine with a lot of ram be sufficient for this college student?
Thanks!
milo

[narcimund 0]

I'm a professional print and web designer and I'm doing just marvelously with a 500 MHz G4. Really, everything beyond that is extreme overkill. Hell, for all practical purposes, 100 MHZ would be fine. In the real world, the rest doesn't get used.
There are people who benefit from more cycles, but they're developing massive files: production animations, billboards, etc.
While a student might make a big file once in a while, the extra $1000 will probably buy them a total of ten minutes of free time over the course of their degree. I would just get the kid the slowest available machine and a six pack of beer. No, really.
(I liken today's CPU speeds to an engine that could drive your car 1000 miles per hour, if it weren't for the 65 mph speed limit. Besides, the transmission would explode if you tried, and you're only going to the corner store for cigarettes anyway.)
"Flying without feathers is not easy; my wings have no feathers" -- Titus Maccius Plautus, 220 B.C.

[mountainman 0]

I dont know a lot about Apples, but it seems like with anything, when you buy something, it is outdated within a year.
And, you always with you'd had bought the next level up or whatever. I would say if they are going to get her the best, go with it. You won't have to worry about wishing you had something more...especially if some software comes out that requires the higher power.
JumpinDuo.com...news, pictures, skydiving and links.

[skreamer 1]

Yep, I agree. Buy her the slowest one and it will be fine. Our design team has 4 G4s of varying ages and specs. The only thing they have in common is 256Mb of RAM. They're using all the usual shit (quark, photoshop, illustrator etc.) and there is no significantly noticeable difference in performance between any of them. Maybe if she is going to do video editing she'd want the latest and greatest, but I'd recommend buying the cheapest G4 and then just getting more RAM if you want better performance.
Will
"Look before you jump, don't die until you're dead"

[freeflir29 0]

I didn't know people actually bought Macintosh????!!!!!
"Here I come to save the BOOBIES!"

[wildblue 4]

A lot of people buy Macs, especially those looking to do graphics/music/video work.
I agree with everyone else - don't go overboard on the specs. Macs last awhile. Heck, I still have a SE30 in my server room.
Warning: sunshine is a kleptomaniac

[narcimund 0]

Oh yeah. RAM. I run 1 gig for professional work. I wouldn't recommend less, considering how cheap it is. Photoshop loves RAM.
Just don't buy Apple's ripoff RAM. A gig of "good enough" from pricewatch.com is going for $150.
And CPU speed is a false measure of a computer's power. The slowest available is more than anyone will ever use. The fastest available is also more than anyone will ever use. The Ferrari and the Accord both drive 35 mph down city streets.
"Flying without feathers is not easy; my wings have no feathers" -- Titus Maccius Plautus, 220 B.C.

[narcimund 0]

My first mac was an SE30. I miss it. :(
"Flying without feathers is not easy; my wings have no feathers" -- Titus Maccius Plautus, 220 B.C.

[wildblue 4]

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My first mac was an SE30. I miss it. :(

I have 4 acting as legs of a coffee table at home if you want one
Warning: sunshine is a kleptomaniac

[Derekbox 0]

Ok I have to disagree with most of you.
I have 2 things to admit here:
1) I am a computer geek
2) I know shit about MACs.
But I do know alot about needing a good computer and being in college. So here is what I suggest, buy middle of the line.
I would suggest the 800mhz G4. if it is going to last the rest of her college career. If she is serious about graphic arts, she will need a good computer, something that will last her. So you can splurge a little now, or end up paying more in the long run. In the end tho, I suggest she gets the best that they can afford. trust me, she will be happier. (I had to suffer through on a POS system for a long time. it was miserable).
Derek
P.S. Many colleges offer programs where if you buy the computer through the school/certain vendor you can save ALOT. Check out the schools bookstore for info on that.
"Its one thing to tempt death, its another to bitch slap him"
Daytona Beach Fl
DZ: Deland
AIM: Derekbox

[AggieDave 6]

Remember, something though. If she changes majors, she'll be just about screwed. Mainly due to the price of the "normal" software used in College (I'm a 5th year senior trust me), MS Office is the standard at schools for documents. You can easily pirate anything you need for school on a PC, but Mac versions are damn near impossible to come by unless you're into warez.
As for specs, I tend to do computers like I do cars, "can it be bigger, faster or more powerful? If so, can I afford it? If so, then by god, that's the one I want!" Aerials
So up high
When you free your lives (the) eternal prize

[Derekbox 0]

Agree with Aggie.
We can check out software from our library. XP, Visual studio, 2000, office, those are the PC titles tho... I think many schools do that kinda thing, Have to check into it.
Also, find other ppl who have macs and bum a copy of there software. (the 800mhz system comes with a burner.)
Derek
"Its one thing to tempt death, its another to bitch slap him"
Daytona Beach Fl
DZ: Deland
AIM: Derekbox

[rapper4mpi 0]

I work in advertising and design and went to college for it (graduated in 98). A mac is your best bet, even if you switch majors. The new macs are entirely compatible with PCs, and the software (office) comes standard with it, so no need to pirate anything. My advice is this....Go to www.smalldog.com
You can't beat the price or customer service, trust me!
-Rap

[mountainman 0]

When you guys talk about software, it is much easier to get those programs for cheap if you are a student or teacher. My buddy got his Final Cut Pro 2 for over half off retail. Also, I was looking at PowerBooks and Final Cut Pro 3 which retails for $999. I could get the full version for $299 just for being a teacher.
Most of those software companies offer software for students at a great price if you check around enough. Call the manufactorer and/or go to your school bookshop and ask around.
JumpinDuo.com...news, pictures, skydiving and links.

[narcimund 0]

Wait a second... you're advocating a Windows machine based on the ease of stealing software for it?
Even aside from the fact that Macs can run all Windows software, that's the lousiest reason I've ever heard!
Quick, someone tell Apple they should start an ad campaign catering to mooches and thieves.
"Flying without feathers is not easy; my wings have no feathers" -- Titus Maccius Plautus, 220 B.C.

[indyz 1]

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Even aside from the fact that Macs can run all Windows software, that's the lousiest reason I've ever heard!

This requires emulation which is for the most part unnacceptably slow with applications that are even remotely processor or memory intensive.
That said, all of the software a graphic design major will ever need are available for the Mac and most productivity software is available as well. As some other posters have said, most colleges have deeply discounted software at the bookstore and even if they don't, you can usually go straight to publisher of the software for a list of dealers that give student discounts.
I've been eyeing an older Mac just for Internet and productivity work. My Linux box is acceptable but Macs are just the best I've ever used for that sort of stuff. Not to mention the newer Macs use parts that are for the most part compatible with desktop PCs (unlike the old days, when you had to buy SCSI hard drives, etc.) and are soooo easy to maintain.
One final word of advice: Don't get sucked in my the "Megahertz Myth." A 800Mhz Mac will perform far differently from an 800Mhz Pentium (quite a bit better, actually). An 800 Mhz G4 should be plenty fast for almost anything, I'm lusting for a 1 Ghz, and the dual processor model is overkill for 99% of Mac users.
--
Brian

[TomAiello 25]

I'm running a G4 600 laptop and a dual G4 1gig desktop.
If you want to do video editing, the extra processor power is DEFINITELY RECOMMENDED.
For all other applications (i.e. still graphics) it's total overkill.
--Tom Aiello
[email protected]

[howardwhite 5]

I'm writing this on a Titanium G4 with 500 mHZ, and it's fine for all the graphic arts stuff.
The other thing to know is that Adobe has really deep "educational" discounts for Photoshop, Illustrator, GoLive and InDesign. If video is involved, Apple will sell Final Cut Pro for about a third of the retail. Quark, a fucked company, is not so enlightened.
HW

[AggieDave 6]

Actually, when you get down to it, I prefer the versitility of the x86 architecture, but that's a different story. What I stated is true, though, and since Macs merely use emulation to run PC software, this is a very valid point. I challenge you to name something that my "poor little x86" based Athlon can't do when compared to a Mac...Oh, I can name one!! Cost as much!
Outside of the world of the graphic designers, Macs are about fucking worthless.
(before you flame stating that I don't understand what I'm talking about, note: I worked as a system admin for 3 years, I was the security administrator for an ISP and *the* Mac expert for a Tech desk.)
Aerials
So up high
When you free your lives (the) eternal prize

[indyz 1]

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Outside of the world of the graphic designers, Macs are about fucking worthless.

I dunno. Secretaries and grandmas are one area where I think Macs work better than PCs. Speaking as a (former, stupid budget crisis) tech for a moderately sized department at a major university the Macs gave me far, far less hassle than x86 hardware. Upgrades are a cinch, RAM takes less than 60 seconds from power down to power up, configuration is a cinch. The only thing I didn't like was setting up USB printers under OS9. That would have been easy if a certain department head hadn't lost all of the manuals.
The only things that Macs are "fucking worthless" for is playing games, IMHO. Even then, the hardware is more than capable, the publishers haven't come around yet. Low end Macs ship GeForce2 MX's which isn't top of the line, but is still better than many new PCs.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I've used both on a regular basis and prefer the Mac but I own a PC because it's cheap. My PC can do anything a Mac can do, but it's more work to fix when the shit hits the fan. If my PC melted down tommorrow, I would seriously consider a used G4 tower, or even dropping the $1400 for a low end iMac.
--
Brian

[AndyMan 7]

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I dunno. Secretaries and grandmas are one area where I think Macs work better than PCs.

Have you done much work under XP? I put XP on both my mother's and grandmothers PC, and they both get along quite fine.
<--not a fan of microsoft, use linux whenever possible. XP was great for my grandmother.
_Am
"I wanna be a canopy nazi " - rhino

[TomAiello 25]

..not a fan of microsoft, use linux whenever possible. XP was great for my grandmother...
You know the new Mac OS is Linux based?
--Tom Aiello
[email protected]

[indyz 1]

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You know the new Mac OS is Linux based?

Negative. Mac OS X is based on the Mach micro kernel with a BSD compatibility layer. Most apps that are written to POSIX standards (i.e., a lot of Linux software) will compile and run just fine. Linux is available for PowerPC processors, but OS X worked just fine for me before the university canned my ass.
In fact, the only big thing I don't like about OS X is that it is too damn pretty. Looking good gets in the way of usability. I don't want to wait for an app to "grow" when I maximize it from it's Dock icon. I want to click on the freaking icon and have it fill the whole screen, now. And there is no built in way to change it's behavior! I had to go download third-party hacks to make the GUI on my workstation behave the way that a power user would want it to.
That said, I use Linux on both of my computers at home and it works fine for me. I might (big, huge, monstrous, might) use Windows XP if I didn't do tons of coding and screwing around with network stuff. I just haven't found a devel environment on Windows that I like as much as a couple of virtual terminals and Emacs (this coming from somebody who learned to code in Visual Studio).
--
Brian

[jfields 0]

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Outside of the world of the graphic designers, Macs are about fucking worthless.

That is so not true! They are great...
doorstops
fishtanks
paperweights
downrange targets
Justin

[sunshine 2]

Quote

I have 4 acting as legs of a coffee table at home if you want one

Well then you'd have a coffee table with 3 legs.
"A million mile fall from grace, thank god we missed the ground"