rgoper 0 #76 September 12, 2002 QuoteSo it wouldn't bother you to get put on unpaid leave for a while while they did a second test? And it wouldn't bother you to get fired for the .5% chance that the GC/MS test is wrong as well?*** BillVon: asked and answered. NO it wouldn't bother me. i'm aware of some of the tactics that are improvised to beat the test, i've NEVER done it. honest to god, i'm a "staright arrow" ask anyone who has ever jumped with me. and IF i did get a bad test, and had to wait 5-6 days to go back to work, when the results came back, i'd be reimbursed for my time, so it's not even a remote concern.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rgoper 0 #77 September 12, 2002 Quote(I can think of several.) would it not be your responseability to turn them in then? or is that more than you can bear?--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WFFC 1 #78 September 12, 2002 QuoteAnother thought is to have some sort of contract that anyone who works at the DZ signs which makes it clear they are INDEPENDANT contractors and ARE NOT employed by the DZ. My DZ has that and we're all supposed to sign in before starting for the day...Called my dad (retired insurance guy) to get his thoughts. Didn't think that an independent contrator sheet would totally remove the DZ from liability as the contractor was still using the DZs gear (i.e. plane, Tandem rig possibly). It would really depend on the malfunction on whose happy smile would end up in court.----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #79 September 12, 2002 QuoteDidn't think that an independent contrator sheet would totally remove the DZ from liability That would definately be something a lawyer would have to be paid to figure out. I'm sure it would vary from state to state also. It might be one more step to insulating the DZ from a law suit though. It MAY also get some people that may like to drink or use drugs to THINK a little before they sign in. I doubt it...but if it effects just one..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #80 September 12, 2002 Turn them into who? Also not everyone is able to get paid back for company forced leave. Would you still get paid if you were to suffer from a mental break down and need theropy?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jessica 0 #81 September 12, 2002 One of the dumbest things I've done to date is quit my old job when I got a "conditional" offer of employment from my new job -- dependent on my passing a drug test. I hadn't smoked anything I shouldn't have, but I still could have been left jobless through a lab screwup or God knows what else.Skydiving is for cool people only Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jraf 0 #82 September 13, 2002 smoking weed is a good deed, after hours of coursejraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sitflyr 0 #83 September 13, 2002 Quotewould it not be your responseability to turn them in then? or is that more than you can bear? You asked how that information might be useful and I mentioned a couple of ways that I thought the information could be useful. There's no need to get your ass on your shoulders. Julie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christoofar 0 #84 September 13, 2002 Ok. I don't want to whine (can you hear the WHAAAmbulance?)... but I think the thread is devolving into 3 different topics. Back to the Tribune story, we have a confirmed case of an AFF/I going in because he was puffing not but a moment before he boarded a jumpship. It is also bad enough that he did it at a DZ that has a less than spectacular rapport among skydivers, no matter how the DZ got that reputation, whether they deserved it or not. So... DZ's are commercial businesses, right? They can drug test if they want to, just like any other business. That is undisputed. Should they, that's debateable until the cows come home. Will testing keep drugs off the DZ? Maybe not. Mike posted an article that is 4 years old describing a tandem instructor going in with a student... and traces of drugs being in his system (whether that impaired his judgement is again, debateable). I'm guessing since it has been 4, going on 5 years now... that not much has changed since nor it will. If you see pot @ the DZ and you decide to narc, you will likely not be welcome back to the DZ. This has probably been a constant in skydiving and like Lisa said... rests on the pilot and on the DZO. If you have clout at your DZ and influence you can probably make waves but for most of us we can't do anything. If no one does a damned thing to fix it, then it won't get fixed. My guess, and this is just brain candy... is that absolutely nothing is going to happen in this issue, until something BIG comes along, like the closure of a MAJOR dropzone. Perhaps maybe Roger's if there is a second occurance of a staff member going in and is found later to have recently been doped up. If I were Mr. Nelson, I would be in damage control mode right now at full tilt. I don't want a DZ closure to happen... but I see it being unavoidable in a few years if we keep letting these people risk their lives and ours by getting in the plane when they are mentally unable to judge their surroundings or make decisions. It's bad enough when I have to think about equipment malfunctions. But throwing "malfunctioning people" into the mix just adds more trouble onto a hot steaming pile of caca. ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DJL 232 #85 September 13, 2002 QuoteThat would definately be something a lawyer would have to be paid to figure out. I'm guessing that USPA has lawyers? Not a bad thing for them to look into. But aside from punitive consequences...it's everyone's responsibility to observe the "beer light" and to enforce that with their peers. Screw worrying about getting sued, let's all stick around for the next load. -Doug"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rgoper 0 #86 September 13, 2002 QuoteWould you still get paid if you were to suffer from a mental break down and need theropy? yes--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,435 #87 September 13, 2002 >i've NEVER done it. honest to god, i'm a "staright arrow" ask anyone > who has ever jumped with me. No, no, I believe you - heck, I've never taken anything stronger than codeine. >and IF i did get a bad test, and had to wait 5-6 days to go back to >work, when the results came back, i'd be reimbursed for my time, so >it's not even a remote concern. I think you miss the point here. If you test positive on the GC/MS test, and your company has a no-drug policy, you WILL be at least suspended/required to go to mandatory rehab/fired or whatever. If they did not, their drug tests would be meaningless. That means that, even if you have never done drugs, they WILL take the (possibly erroneous) result of this, most accurate drug test over your word. GC/MS tests are pretty good, but they are only as good as the people running the tests. .5% false-positive is the usual accuracy number quoted. So even if you take this, more accurate test, 1 time out of 200, your number will be up and you will be identified as a drug user. Doesn't matter what you've done or not done; by their definition, you've used drugs. You can claim you don't, but then again, that's what drug users say, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christoofar 0 #88 September 13, 2002 QuoteQuoteWould you still get paid if you were to suffer from a mental break down and need theropy? yes These thoughts crossed my mind while I am still filled with angst. Skydiving dropzones aren't any different than any other business. Why? Look at the tandem factories. This is a business, an industry, a market. You don't think so? DZO push through the tandems like tickets to a carnival ride. Mr. Passmore's death is very regrettable. Even more regrettable was that he was an AFF instructor. Judging from his toxicology report from the Tribune, he had recently taken marijuana prior to jumping. This probably also means he did it while it was on the DZ property or nearby. Even MORE regrettable was that this happened in front of the USPA BOD. This probably not only underscored the danger of high-performance landings even more, but the fact that substance abuse and impairment will lead to injury and death. Now that this information has come out today, we have yet even another factor to consider... an AFF instructor, a person we trust with our lives to provide us coaching to get us into the sport of skydiving, made a very, very colossal mistake... and paid the ultimate price for it. He will now be a lesson to everyone, a lesson that is buried six feet under. When you dismiss and ignore individuals who are endangering your life and others lives by their actions, you are doing our sport an injustice. Mistakes in skydiving kill. We learn from our mistakes. It part of being human. I think we will regret turning our heads back and chalking this one up as an "oh well, blue skies dude" type of incident. This incident and others like it are a warning. If you think skydiving can escape overregulation... this is exactly the type of stuff that can cause legislation to be passed through Congress. I hope USPA is considering what implications drug-use among its certified ratings holders might have on the future of skydiving, and in USPA itself. I hope this is the first and last time we see something like this. If you ever heard of the Brady Bill or Meagan's Law, you should know that it only takes few enough angry whuffos to start a concerted effort to change the law and/or create new law. Incidents like these have the potential to turn into major nastiness. Now, how do you like them apples? ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christoofar 0 #89 September 13, 2002 Quote>i've NEVER done it. honest to god, i'm a "staright arrow" ask anyone > who has ever jumped with me. No, no, I believe you - heck, I've never taken anything stronger than codeine. >and IF i did get a bad test, and had to wait 5-6 days to go back to >work, when the results came back, i'd be reimbursed for my time, so >it's not even a remote concern. I think you miss the point here. If you test positive on the GC/MS test, and your company has a no-drug policy, you WILL be at least suspended/required to go to mandatory rehab/fired or whatever. If they did not, their drug tests would be meaningless. That means that, even if you have never done drugs, they WILL take the (possibly erroneous) result of this, most accurate drug test over your word. GC/MS tests are pretty good, but they are only as good as the people running the tests. .5% false-positive is the usual accuracy number quoted. So even if you take this, more accurate test, 1 time out of 200, your number will be up and you will be identified as a drug user. Doesn't matter what you've done or not done; by their definition, you've used drugs. You can claim you don't, but then again, that's what drug users say, too. Only recourse is legal action here. ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,435 #90 September 13, 2002 Sorry; the previous post was my reply to rgoper. No idea why it showed up under christoofar's name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites christoofar 0 #91 September 13, 2002 bill: It was right. Just replied to both of y'all. ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fasterfaller 0 #92 September 13, 2002 Anyone heard about the genetic testing that they are doing with the urine samples ? They have been compiling data about people that may come down with cancer or another disease in the future . I heard about this database from an insurance underwriter friend of mine . He knows about one guy that was in the early stages of cancer and it was known from a drugscreen and was not told about it . He did not get the job and went to his own Dr. for a blood test and it showed up . Lucky for him he found out before it was too late . He sued the employer and the testing lab and they settled out of court for 8 figures and a gag order against him . Never piss in the bottle for any company if you do not want your future health risks recorded on a database . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #93 September 13, 2002 QuoteAnyone heard about the genetic testing that they are doing with the urine samples ? Hmmm....all they could tell about me is what brewery I came from..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fasterfaller 0 #94 September 13, 2002 I think a lot of people would be amazed what they can find in urine and some of the real reasons for pre employment drug screening . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #95 September 13, 2002 oh yeah. A woman tests positive for being pregnant...the comapny realizes that in a few months she'll want to go off on maternity leave for a few months...so if they're nice they'll say "oh, uh, well, we had another candidate thanks for applying>>" or "uh you tested positive for --------(insert drug here)" Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jose 0 #96 September 13, 2002 I think that this thread has lost its purpose,which was questioned in the first place. What I perceived the purpose of this thread was to show indisputable fact that if you jump while high, no matter what the drug of choice (legal or not), it affects your judgement. The use of drugs and its moral and ethical issue and the screening of them really isnt what was posted. There is no right or wrong answer on these topics since opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one, and they all stink. Bottom line....if you use any substance that alters your state of mind or judgement and you decide to go jump.....you are a frigging idiot. Natural selection will likely weed you out, while that is unfortunate, what else can you expect when you combine such activites. What is not ok is that you might just take one of us out with you. I saw this post's intention, while possibly post in the wrong forum, as a wake up call for those who have not seen or heard of a skydiving death that was drug related. A wake up call for either themselves or the option to try to prevent others from partaking in such activites at their personal DZ. P.S. Who would want to be high during the jump anyways. What a perfectly good way to fuck up an experience that rivals none on earth, or off for that matter. Christoofa <---- hit it on the head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quatorze 1 #97 September 13, 2002 How many of us out there will have a beer or two and get behind the wheel of a car... yet if we have even a sip of a beer while expecting weather to remain for the rest of the day and then all of a sudden blue skies come back out yet we are done jumping for the day. One sip no jump... think about it? I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rgoper 0 #98 September 13, 2002 QuoteI think you miss the point here. If you test positive on the GC/MS test, and your company has a no-drug policy, you WILL be at least suspended/required to go to mandatory rehab/fired or whatever. BillVon: no, i would not. because i own my own company. Quotehow is this helpful information? and this was my post to the original. i checked the poster's profile, he's a student at SDC (3 jumps) not that this says anything about his credibility, that is not in question here, but my question remains unanswered. passmore is dead, this information is not going to save anyone's life, we all know if you jump impaired you could die, therefore rendering the original post useless, it should have never been posted, IMO, because it serves no purpose other than to let us know passmore was stoned when he crashed and burned. if passmore was the poster's brother/son/son-in-law/father, do you think he would have posted it?--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skreamer 1 #99 September 13, 2002 Bill, say you were clean but were one of the 5% who failed the first test. You are then made to take the second test and are one of the 0.5% who fail that. Surely if you knew you were clean you could insist on taking the second test again? Fine, there is a 0.5% chance of failing that second test, but where does it say you can't insist on a retake if you _know_ you are clean? If necessary you could even have it done privately and then sue the hell out of your company for wrongful dismissal. Obviously your company knows this and would agree to a retest. Sorry, but I don't think your 0.5% argument is valid. Will Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites clrarch 0 #100 September 13, 2002 Quotehow is this helpful information? and this was my post to the original. i checked the poster's profile, he's a student at SDC (3 jumps) not that this says anything about his credibility, that is not in question here, but my question remains unanswered. passmore is dead, this information is not going to save anyone's life, we all know if you jump impaired you could die, therefore rendering the original post useless, it should have never been posted, IMO, because it serves no purpose other than to let us know passmore was stoned when he crashed and burned. if passmore was the poster's brother/son/son-in-law/father, do you think he would have posted it? True, the only purpose the post served originally was to let us know passmore was stoned, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was useless. Who can say if the post would have made it to this forum if the poster was related to passmore? Maybe, if it makes someone think twice about taking a hit or drinking some beer before jumping, it has served it's purpose. I agree everyone knows if you jump impaired you could kill yourself, or potentially kill someone else. Debating drug tests and policy won't change that fact. Talking about our personal use habits also won't change that fact. I personally don't think it's about regulation or being a narc. People lost someone they care about because he made an impaired decision. The skydiving community lost someone because he made an impaired decision. For me, this means the next time I see someone taking a hit or a sip while waiting for the next jump, rather than keeping my mouth shut because I believe people can do with their bodies whatever they please, I'll them pull aside and say, "hey, maybe you should sit this out because I want you to be safe". Someone who is high can't make that decision....it doesn't register. If it's someone you care about (hell, if it's someone you don't care about), maybe it's the right thing to do to talk to them. Maybe that's what the post was trying to encourage....just my opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #77 September 12, 2002 Quote(I can think of several.) would it not be your responseability to turn them in then? or is that more than you can bear?--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #78 September 12, 2002 QuoteAnother thought is to have some sort of contract that anyone who works at the DZ signs which makes it clear they are INDEPENDANT contractors and ARE NOT employed by the DZ. My DZ has that and we're all supposed to sign in before starting for the day...Called my dad (retired insurance guy) to get his thoughts. Didn't think that an independent contrator sheet would totally remove the DZ from liability as the contractor was still using the DZs gear (i.e. plane, Tandem rig possibly). It would really depend on the malfunction on whose happy smile would end up in court.----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #79 September 12, 2002 QuoteDidn't think that an independent contrator sheet would totally remove the DZ from liability That would definately be something a lawyer would have to be paid to figure out. I'm sure it would vary from state to state also. It might be one more step to insulating the DZ from a law suit though. It MAY also get some people that may like to drink or use drugs to THINK a little before they sign in. I doubt it...but if it effects just one..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #80 September 12, 2002 Turn them into who? Also not everyone is able to get paid back for company forced leave. Would you still get paid if you were to suffer from a mental break down and need theropy?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #81 September 12, 2002 One of the dumbest things I've done to date is quit my old job when I got a "conditional" offer of employment from my new job -- dependent on my passing a drug test. I hadn't smoked anything I shouldn't have, but I still could have been left jobless through a lab screwup or God knows what else.Skydiving is for cool people only Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jraf 0 #82 September 13, 2002 smoking weed is a good deed, after hours of coursejraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sitflyr 0 #83 September 13, 2002 Quotewould it not be your responseability to turn them in then? or is that more than you can bear? You asked how that information might be useful and I mentioned a couple of ways that I thought the information could be useful. There's no need to get your ass on your shoulders. Julie Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christoofar 0 #84 September 13, 2002 Ok. I don't want to whine (can you hear the WHAAAmbulance?)... but I think the thread is devolving into 3 different topics. Back to the Tribune story, we have a confirmed case of an AFF/I going in because he was puffing not but a moment before he boarded a jumpship. It is also bad enough that he did it at a DZ that has a less than spectacular rapport among skydivers, no matter how the DZ got that reputation, whether they deserved it or not. So... DZ's are commercial businesses, right? They can drug test if they want to, just like any other business. That is undisputed. Should they, that's debateable until the cows come home. Will testing keep drugs off the DZ? Maybe not. Mike posted an article that is 4 years old describing a tandem instructor going in with a student... and traces of drugs being in his system (whether that impaired his judgement is again, debateable). I'm guessing since it has been 4, going on 5 years now... that not much has changed since nor it will. If you see pot @ the DZ and you decide to narc, you will likely not be welcome back to the DZ. This has probably been a constant in skydiving and like Lisa said... rests on the pilot and on the DZO. If you have clout at your DZ and influence you can probably make waves but for most of us we can't do anything. If no one does a damned thing to fix it, then it won't get fixed. My guess, and this is just brain candy... is that absolutely nothing is going to happen in this issue, until something BIG comes along, like the closure of a MAJOR dropzone. Perhaps maybe Roger's if there is a second occurance of a staff member going in and is found later to have recently been doped up. If I were Mr. Nelson, I would be in damage control mode right now at full tilt. I don't want a DZ closure to happen... but I see it being unavoidable in a few years if we keep letting these people risk their lives and ours by getting in the plane when they are mentally unable to judge their surroundings or make decisions. It's bad enough when I have to think about equipment malfunctions. But throwing "malfunctioning people" into the mix just adds more trouble onto a hot steaming pile of caca. ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #85 September 13, 2002 QuoteThat would definately be something a lawyer would have to be paid to figure out. I'm guessing that USPA has lawyers? Not a bad thing for them to look into. But aside from punitive consequences...it's everyone's responsibility to observe the "beer light" and to enforce that with their peers. Screw worrying about getting sued, let's all stick around for the next load. -Doug"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #86 September 13, 2002 QuoteWould you still get paid if you were to suffer from a mental break down and need theropy? yes--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #87 September 13, 2002 >i've NEVER done it. honest to god, i'm a "staright arrow" ask anyone > who has ever jumped with me. No, no, I believe you - heck, I've never taken anything stronger than codeine. >and IF i did get a bad test, and had to wait 5-6 days to go back to >work, when the results came back, i'd be reimbursed for my time, so >it's not even a remote concern. I think you miss the point here. If you test positive on the GC/MS test, and your company has a no-drug policy, you WILL be at least suspended/required to go to mandatory rehab/fired or whatever. If they did not, their drug tests would be meaningless. That means that, even if you have never done drugs, they WILL take the (possibly erroneous) result of this, most accurate drug test over your word. GC/MS tests are pretty good, but they are only as good as the people running the tests. .5% false-positive is the usual accuracy number quoted. So even if you take this, more accurate test, 1 time out of 200, your number will be up and you will be identified as a drug user. Doesn't matter what you've done or not done; by their definition, you've used drugs. You can claim you don't, but then again, that's what drug users say, too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christoofar 0 #88 September 13, 2002 QuoteQuoteWould you still get paid if you were to suffer from a mental break down and need theropy? yes These thoughts crossed my mind while I am still filled with angst. Skydiving dropzones aren't any different than any other business. Why? Look at the tandem factories. This is a business, an industry, a market. You don't think so? DZO push through the tandems like tickets to a carnival ride. Mr. Passmore's death is very regrettable. Even more regrettable was that he was an AFF instructor. Judging from his toxicology report from the Tribune, he had recently taken marijuana prior to jumping. This probably also means he did it while it was on the DZ property or nearby. Even MORE regrettable was that this happened in front of the USPA BOD. This probably not only underscored the danger of high-performance landings even more, but the fact that substance abuse and impairment will lead to injury and death. Now that this information has come out today, we have yet even another factor to consider... an AFF instructor, a person we trust with our lives to provide us coaching to get us into the sport of skydiving, made a very, very colossal mistake... and paid the ultimate price for it. He will now be a lesson to everyone, a lesson that is buried six feet under. When you dismiss and ignore individuals who are endangering your life and others lives by their actions, you are doing our sport an injustice. Mistakes in skydiving kill. We learn from our mistakes. It part of being human. I think we will regret turning our heads back and chalking this one up as an "oh well, blue skies dude" type of incident. This incident and others like it are a warning. If you think skydiving can escape overregulation... this is exactly the type of stuff that can cause legislation to be passed through Congress. I hope USPA is considering what implications drug-use among its certified ratings holders might have on the future of skydiving, and in USPA itself. I hope this is the first and last time we see something like this. If you ever heard of the Brady Bill or Meagan's Law, you should know that it only takes few enough angry whuffos to start a concerted effort to change the law and/or create new law. Incidents like these have the potential to turn into major nastiness. Now, how do you like them apples? ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christoofar 0 #89 September 13, 2002 Quote>i've NEVER done it. honest to god, i'm a "staright arrow" ask anyone > who has ever jumped with me. No, no, I believe you - heck, I've never taken anything stronger than codeine. >and IF i did get a bad test, and had to wait 5-6 days to go back to >work, when the results came back, i'd be reimbursed for my time, so >it's not even a remote concern. I think you miss the point here. If you test positive on the GC/MS test, and your company has a no-drug policy, you WILL be at least suspended/required to go to mandatory rehab/fired or whatever. If they did not, their drug tests would be meaningless. That means that, even if you have never done drugs, they WILL take the (possibly erroneous) result of this, most accurate drug test over your word. GC/MS tests are pretty good, but they are only as good as the people running the tests. .5% false-positive is the usual accuracy number quoted. So even if you take this, more accurate test, 1 time out of 200, your number will be up and you will be identified as a drug user. Doesn't matter what you've done or not done; by their definition, you've used drugs. You can claim you don't, but then again, that's what drug users say, too. Only recourse is legal action here. ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #90 September 13, 2002 Sorry; the previous post was my reply to rgoper. No idea why it showed up under christoofar's name. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christoofar 0 #91 September 13, 2002 bill: It was right. Just replied to both of y'all. ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasterfaller 0 #92 September 13, 2002 Anyone heard about the genetic testing that they are doing with the urine samples ? They have been compiling data about people that may come down with cancer or another disease in the future . I heard about this database from an insurance underwriter friend of mine . He knows about one guy that was in the early stages of cancer and it was known from a drugscreen and was not told about it . He did not get the job and went to his own Dr. for a blood test and it showed up . Lucky for him he found out before it was too late . He sued the employer and the testing lab and they settled out of court for 8 figures and a gag order against him . Never piss in the bottle for any company if you do not want your future health risks recorded on a database . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #93 September 13, 2002 QuoteAnyone heard about the genetic testing that they are doing with the urine samples ? Hmmm....all they could tell about me is what brewery I came from..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasterfaller 0 #94 September 13, 2002 I think a lot of people would be amazed what they can find in urine and some of the real reasons for pre employment drug screening . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #95 September 13, 2002 oh yeah. A woman tests positive for being pregnant...the comapny realizes that in a few months she'll want to go off on maternity leave for a few months...so if they're nice they'll say "oh, uh, well, we had another candidate thanks for applying>>" or "uh you tested positive for --------(insert drug here)" Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jose 0 #96 September 13, 2002 I think that this thread has lost its purpose,which was questioned in the first place. What I perceived the purpose of this thread was to show indisputable fact that if you jump while high, no matter what the drug of choice (legal or not), it affects your judgement. The use of drugs and its moral and ethical issue and the screening of them really isnt what was posted. There is no right or wrong answer on these topics since opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one, and they all stink. Bottom line....if you use any substance that alters your state of mind or judgement and you decide to go jump.....you are a frigging idiot. Natural selection will likely weed you out, while that is unfortunate, what else can you expect when you combine such activites. What is not ok is that you might just take one of us out with you. I saw this post's intention, while possibly post in the wrong forum, as a wake up call for those who have not seen or heard of a skydiving death that was drug related. A wake up call for either themselves or the option to try to prevent others from partaking in such activites at their personal DZ. P.S. Who would want to be high during the jump anyways. What a perfectly good way to fuck up an experience that rivals none on earth, or off for that matter. Christoofa <---- hit it on the head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quatorze 1 #97 September 13, 2002 How many of us out there will have a beer or two and get behind the wheel of a car... yet if we have even a sip of a beer while expecting weather to remain for the rest of the day and then all of a sudden blue skies come back out yet we are done jumping for the day. One sip no jump... think about it? I'm not afriad of dying, I'm afraid of never really living- Erin Engle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #98 September 13, 2002 QuoteI think you miss the point here. If you test positive on the GC/MS test, and your company has a no-drug policy, you WILL be at least suspended/required to go to mandatory rehab/fired or whatever. BillVon: no, i would not. because i own my own company. Quotehow is this helpful information? and this was my post to the original. i checked the poster's profile, he's a student at SDC (3 jumps) not that this says anything about his credibility, that is not in question here, but my question remains unanswered. passmore is dead, this information is not going to save anyone's life, we all know if you jump impaired you could die, therefore rendering the original post useless, it should have never been posted, IMO, because it serves no purpose other than to let us know passmore was stoned when he crashed and burned. if passmore was the poster's brother/son/son-in-law/father, do you think he would have posted it?--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #99 September 13, 2002 Bill, say you were clean but were one of the 5% who failed the first test. You are then made to take the second test and are one of the 0.5% who fail that. Surely if you knew you were clean you could insist on taking the second test again? Fine, there is a 0.5% chance of failing that second test, but where does it say you can't insist on a retake if you _know_ you are clean? If necessary you could even have it done privately and then sue the hell out of your company for wrongful dismissal. Obviously your company knows this and would agree to a retest. Sorry, but I don't think your 0.5% argument is valid. Will Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clrarch 0 #100 September 13, 2002 Quotehow is this helpful information? and this was my post to the original. i checked the poster's profile, he's a student at SDC (3 jumps) not that this says anything about his credibility, that is not in question here, but my question remains unanswered. passmore is dead, this information is not going to save anyone's life, we all know if you jump impaired you could die, therefore rendering the original post useless, it should have never been posted, IMO, because it serves no purpose other than to let us know passmore was stoned when he crashed and burned. if passmore was the poster's brother/son/son-in-law/father, do you think he would have posted it? True, the only purpose the post served originally was to let us know passmore was stoned, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was useless. Who can say if the post would have made it to this forum if the poster was related to passmore? Maybe, if it makes someone think twice about taking a hit or drinking some beer before jumping, it has served it's purpose. I agree everyone knows if you jump impaired you could kill yourself, or potentially kill someone else. Debating drug tests and policy won't change that fact. Talking about our personal use habits also won't change that fact. I personally don't think it's about regulation or being a narc. People lost someone they care about because he made an impaired decision. The skydiving community lost someone because he made an impaired decision. For me, this means the next time I see someone taking a hit or a sip while waiting for the next jump, rather than keeping my mouth shut because I believe people can do with their bodies whatever they please, I'll them pull aside and say, "hey, maybe you should sit this out because I want you to be safe". Someone who is high can't make that decision....it doesn't register. If it's someone you care about (hell, if it's someone you don't care about), maybe it's the right thing to do to talk to them. Maybe that's what the post was trying to encourage....just my opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
