Work done on a rig without consent.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

You still insist on removing your customer's right to make a monetary decision on their personal property

I know a lot of REALLY GOOD riggers. Fantastic riggers. I trust them all. I also know Mark personally and he is the best of them all.

Here's what you are missing. Mark knows his customers and he pretty much does his best to accommodate their needs based on those relationships. I'm pretty sure that if he knew someone that would prefer pre-notification before extra work - he'd respect that. And any other option too.

Your customers all have defaults and they are all different. So just finding out what their preferences are is all that's needed.

Frankly, having the checkbox on the form is a good idea. So is just asking quickly upon receipt of the rig. So is being friends with your customers. they all work.

Perhaps the better discussion here is one about each of you figure out what your customers' preferences are on the subject rather than comparing your one size fits all positions on it...?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,476]

>You still insist on removing your customer's right to make a monetary decision on their personal property.

He didn't say that. He said he'd always try to get in touch with them, and if he couldn't he'd use his best judgment. That's a good approach.

Just need a repack but the RPC needs replacement? Probably should wait no matter what.

Need a repack for Friday because Nats starts Saturday, and the rig needs a new set of slinks? If the rigger can't get in touch with the customer it might make more sense to just do it, since the alternative is disappointing his team at Nationals.

[mark 105]

Quote

Great to see you say this. However, this isn't the same position you have previously expressed.

Actually, it is the same position. And, based on your post, if you were my customer, you too would always get a call before I did any extra work.

Mark

[skyjumpenfool 2]

Quote

Quote

Great to see you say this. However, this isn't the same position you have previously expressed.

Actually, it is the same position. And, based on your post, if you were my customer, you too would always get a call before I did any extra work.

Mark

Suck it up Cupcakes!!!! You guys are expecting great riggers (like Mark) to be responsible for getting to know you and your needs and expect them to be able to read your minds as well. At what point do YOU (the customer) take responsibility for your relationship with your rigger.

If I drop a rig off with Mark, I do it knowing full well he will do his best to make sure any and all work is done to the very best of his ability. Period! If he determins that rig needs a repair? So be it. I've developed a relationship of trust with Mark. If not... MY BAD!!! And, it's on me to take responsibility for this.

I value any decision he should make about my rig. After all, he's the skilled professional. I'm lucky to have him around because I need to trust my life in him.
If the OP did not do this... like I said above, Suck it Up!

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[normiss 644]

I'm starting to see some difference in his approach...but I live by a budget, so getting hit with unexpected and unauthorized expenses will piss me the fuck off right quick.
If I know the rigger as Mark has explained, that could change my feeling a LOT.
Devil in the details and all that.

[demon4o7 0]

So knowing that everyone is different, Anal and indifferent why wouldn't a reputable rigger protect him / herself, not only in a monetary sense but also their name. Which is quite big in the skydiving community

[skyjumpenfool 2]

Quote

I'm starting to see some difference in his approach...but I live by a budget, so getting hit with unexpected and unauthorized expenses will piss me the fuck off right quick.
If I know the rigger as Mark has explained, that could change my feeling a LOT.
Devil in the details and all that.

[rant]
All I'm saying is... Take responsibility! Build a working relationship! Be in charge of COMMUNICATING exaclty what you expect from the rigger! Stop bitching if your unannounced expectations are not met. It's YOUR responsibility to tell your rigger you're on a fixed budget.

Good Lord!! I'm so sick of hearing how it's always someone elses fault.
[/rant]

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[normiss 644]

To continue your rant.

If you drop your car off at the shop for an oil change, but come back to $1200 in repairs they felt were critical and didn't want you to miss your vacation, you're good with that?
It just fucking killed my vacation.

It's my property. Nobody but me has the right to make decisions that come out of my wallet.

Whose fault is that??? NOBODY. It's called courtesy.


I don't have this problem with any riggers I know.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

So knowing that everyone is different, Anal and indifferent why wouldn't a reputable rigger protect him / herself, not only in a monetary sense but also their name. Which is quite big in the skydiving community

agreed and you can 'protect yourself' in many ways

1 - get to know your customers personally and be flexible enough to handle it
2 - have them all sign an agreement
3 - ask them each about expectations before they leave the rig with you
4 - weird checklists
5 - ESP
6 - etc etc etc

that's all this is about - find what works for you and your customer base

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

To continue your rant.

If you drop your car off at the shop for an oil change, but come back to $1200 in repairs they felt were critical and didn't want you to miss your vacation, you're good with that?

ouch, you think this big a swing from expectations to invoice is a good analogy for any rigger you've ever met?

Edit: or, at least any rigger you've ever met that stayed in business for long?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[skyjumpenfool 2]

Quote

To continue your rant.

If you drop your car off at the shop for an oil change, but come back to $1200 in repairs they felt were critical and didn't want you to miss your vacation, you're good with that?
It just fucking killed my vacation.

It's my property. Nobody but me has the right to make decisions that come out of my wallet.

Whose fault is that??? NOBODY. It's called courtesy.


I don't have this problem with any riggers I know.

That's my point! You've gotten to know your rigger and took the time to communicate with him. You took the responsibility.

I'm not saying it's ok for a rigger to gouge or perform work that was not needed. I'm just saying that it's up to ME to take responsability for what happens.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[DSE 3]

Quote

I'm just saying that it's up to ME to take responsability for what happens.

Agreed, yet if the rigger does work that was unauthorized, then the responsibility was taken away from you when you weren't looking.

The prevalent theme in this thread (from my perspective) is know your rigger. However, even when you think you know the rigger, still be very clear (on both sides of the conversation) about what is expected.
Just like any other walk of life, there are dishonest riggers just as there are dishonest mechanics. I've experienced one master rigger that 'made shit up' to pay his rent, and that was enough of a learning experience to influence future conversations with riggers, even the ones I know well.

[excaza 1]

It is not the customer's responsibility to make sure someone does not do unauthorized work.

Honestly not getting the blame shifting here.

[mark 105]

Quote

It is not the customer's responsibility to make sure someone does not do unauthorized work.

I agree. It is the rigger's responsibility to figure out what the customer's priorities are.

Mark

[riggerrob 563]

Quote

Quote

It is not the customer's responsibility to make sure someone does not do unauthorized work.

I agree. It is the rigger's responsibility to figure out what the customer's priorities are.

Mark

.......................................................................

Yes, and some customers expect riggers to be able to read minds.
Sorry, but I missed that lecture in rigging school.
Hah!
Hah!

[labrys 0]

Quote

Let's imagine a customer leaves his rig, saying, "Please repack my rig. I need it for the competition this coming weekend." Unfortunately, the rigger finds there is more to do than just a fluff-and-stuff, but is unable to contact the customer. Now it's Friday, and the rigger has to make a choice: do the (unauthorized) repairs and have the rig ready to go, or leave the customer without a rig for competition. What would you do?

I can't say what I would do as a rigger, but I know what I would do as a skydiver in that situation.

If I was dropping my rig off with an unknown rigger I would ask to be notified of extra costs and consider it my responsibility to follow up with the rigger if I got an email, missed call, etc.

If I dropped my rig off and then somehow became completely impossible to reach, I'd find a way to contact them instead. If I was unable to contact them and they did extensive work on my rig regardless, I'd be unhappy.

Under the same circumstances with the rigger I've had a relationship with for the last ten years, I'd trust him to make a call for me. If I dropped off the face of the earth a few days before a competition / boogie / vacation and he made a $100 repair to my rig to make it airworthy, I'd either pay him or ask him if I could catch him after my vacation...

And he wouldn't do the repair unless he was okay with the idea that I might have to pay him later.

It's about skydiving.

Owned by Remi #?

[piisfish 136]

I dropped my rig at an unknown (to me) rigger. ONCE. I then had to redo all the work myself.
There was no extra work to the I+R, but it was already too expensive.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[JerryBaumchen 1,083]

Hi Nic,

Quote

I dropped my rig at an unknown (to me) rigger. ONCE. I then had to redo all the work myself.

Over the years I have noticed that once this type of thing happens the result is, quite often, that the customer then gets his own riggers license.

Looks like you are the perfect example.

JerryBaumchen