An analogy that makes me mad

[SkyDekker 1,150]

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Maybe you should quit assuming things about me. My money and my taxes are my business, but here's some facts for you. I reported all my earnings. Here's another fact: Since I'm a student, the government gives me back every red penny. At this point I'm fairly pissed off at your implying that I am commiting tax fraud, but instead of sinking to your level and responding to your personal attack with another one, I'm going to leave you with those two simple facts.

First of all, I started my post with correct me if I am wrong, hence it is not a closed assumption, but yet one open to change. Second, since you have admitted yourself that on a NET basis you do NOT pay any taxes, you really should not make any statements about how YOUR taxes are spent, since the american government doesn't have any of YOUR money to spend.

Second I would ahve to commend you, IMHO there are not many people who make cash money in the skydiving industry who truly report ever cent of it. You say you do, good for you, fortunately for you, you get it all back.

Third, I don't think there was any personal attack. You were making claims about your taxes being spent. Just wanted to point out they are not spending your taxes, since you do not pay any.

[riggerrob 561]

cgross
On the one hand I agree with you about it being wrong to give handouts to foreigners while American citizens are slowly dying.

However, be careful about believing everything you read in the media.
For example, the American media would like you to believe that thousands of illegal immigrants are free-loading on the American medical system. NOT!
The vast majority of illegal immigrants to the USA are quiet, hard-working people (at jobs that Americans don't want), who pay taxes and are too afraid of the US gov't to ask for any type of social assistance (food stamps, medical care, etc.).

I should know, I used to be one of those hard-working, illegal immigrants.

[Ron 7]

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Your a funny guy there Ron?

Yes, and my Mom loves me!

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Where is your family from AMERICA? I doubt it pal!! Not one person here is
100% American!!!

Well, my Great,great, grandparents come over LEGALLY. And I was born here, and served in the Army here...I pay taxes here.....Yep I'm an American..Just like one of my best friends that came here from Peru LEGALLY, and became a citizen. I also have avery good friend from Sweden...Who is here LEGALLY. And about a dozen or so friends that are here LEGALLY.

Being an american is not about where you were born, or what your background is....Its about being apart of the larger picture and promissing to protect the freedoms that you were given by risking your life if asked. If this girl, or anyone wants to become an AMERICAN...I am all for it. But I am not for giving away resorces that AMERICANS need to someone who does not care one bit about the country that gave it to them.

I also think that all of the people on welfare need to pull some of their own weight. I think the draft should be brought back.

But NO, I don't think we should be the hospital to the world while OUR OWN DIE!

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It's just sad to see people that think like you, you must be a direct desendent of Hitler
himself!

Nope, and my family fought hitler...Mexico almost sided with him. And I willingly enlisted in the Army to fight people like him....

You are looking foolish here.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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Another thing I noted in life is that those who whine the loudest about "wasted tax [currency unit of your
choice here]" are often among those who contribute few (if any) of the aforesaid [same currency unit of
your choice here] to the state coffers

Well some of us don't make millions, but I do OK.

And I did serve in the Army, which I think protecting the country gives me a little bit of right to complain when people abuse it, and then cuss it.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 2,463]

>Being an american is not about where you were born, or what your
> background is....Its about being apart of the larger picture and
> promissing to protect the freedoms that you were given by risking
> your life if asked.

That's an interesting definition. Would you support treating an illegal alien who supported american ideals and was willing to join the US army over a US citizen who did not want to serve in the armed forces?

[AggieDave 6]

If you go back to the thread you're talking about, you'll see that it was a joke about being a packer. Sort of like telling people that malfunctions cost extra, etc.

Well, seeing how I had just filled out my taxes, I guess you could say that I did them.

Furthermore, making accusations of illegal activity, IS a personal attack.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Ron 7]

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That's an interesting definition. Would you support treating an illegal alien who supported american ideals
and was willing to join the US army over a US citizen who did not want to serve in the armed forces?

Well in my opinion, if the person is willing to join the Army to defend this county..(and it does work this way sometimes) Then he is a citizen, and should be treated as such...

So not over, but equal.

If the native born person is not willing to fight for his country...Well, that is a seperate issue, but it is his right AS AN AMERICAN to decline.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[SkyDekker 1,150]

Still Dave,

Fact remains, you do not pay any taxes, so you really should not make statements about where your taxes are being spent.

Kinda like a whuffo should not tell you how to skydive.

If you took it as a personal attack, I'll apologize for that, it certainly was not meant that way.

[flyingferret 0]

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Fact remains, you do not pay any taxes, so you really should not make statements about where your taxes are being spent.

By extension of that very statement, a non-citizen should not have any say either! QED!

As for dave, you are arguing symantics, he paid taxes; the government simply decided he was of the percentage that should be helped and gave him a refund. He still paid them. If you disagree, look at his W-2s. And he does have w-2s, I will assume, because he had a job at a local eatery/bar earlier last year.

--
All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

[cgross 1]

Hey, I won't argue that that illegals do jobs I don't want to, but the people working at McDonalds do jobs that I don't want too. I never said every illegal is a lazy non taxpaying person, but what I will say this, and it will be bold so you hear me.

Every illegal in this country is a criminal!

They are by definition ILLEGAL / breaking American law. And that is what I have a problem with. By making a deliberate choice to break the law, these people should be entitled to NOTHING that America has to offer.

I am not generalizing all criminals by saying criminals have no rights, but I am say illegal imagrants should have no American civil liberties. They should be gently escorted back from where they came.

[JayhawkJumper 0]

Am I mad that an illegal alien got care in the US? no, I'm glad she got a chance at life.

Am I mad that the mother is suing and could win?
not really. I would like to see a maximum limit set on malpractice suits though so insurance premiums will go down.

Am I mad that this other girl isn't getting needed care? YES! If she can't pay for it, the government shoulud pick up the bill. I'm glad we gave this other little girl a chance at life, even though she died, but this other girl who has been waiting, but doesn't have the money should get the same chance. I just don't get why the government would pay for a non-citizen, but tell a citizen to come up with the cash themselves.

[cgross 1]

I agree almost completely. I think her right to sue is a bad idea, but at least you see that we should at the very least be treating citizens the SAME as illegals.

[Michele 1]

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I'm glad we gave this other little girl a chance at life, even though she died, but this other girl who has been waiting, but doesn't have the money should get the same chance. I just don't get why the government would pay for a non-citizen, but tell a citizen to come up with the cash themselves.

And that was my entire point in posting my situation.

Phillykev, you and I are not going to see eye to eye on this (pun definitely intended...), and as such, I will step away from this conversation. Thanks for sharing your views. I think you've got it wrong, but that's just my own opinion.

(And yes, FlyingFerret, it is weird to see it out here...but I brought it in, so any discomfort is my creation and my responsibility...)

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[SkyDekker 1,150]

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By extension of that very statement, a non-citizen should not have any say either! QED!

Agreed completely, that is why I have not made any statements regarding my tax money.

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As for dave, you are arguing symantics

Don't agree with you at all. The government had none of his taxes to direct to anything. Hence it is kind of silly for him to make a statement about how he wants his tax money spent.

Btw, this whole thread is about symantics, since ,I still have need seen any news articles indicating that she is defintely suing the hospital. Right now that is only a possibility and not a fact.

Like I said before, if Dave reported all his income from packing, good for him. I think it is fair to say he would be among the minority of packers.

I'll say it again: none of this was intended as a personal attack, if it was taken as such, my apologies.

[flyingferret 0]

Well, i see your point. But Dave paid taxes, he also got some back. Were they the same dollars he sent in? No. He put money into the pot, and he was one of the people who got a pay out from the pot. That does not change the fact that he put it in. If you play poker and win, do you say you did not contribute anything? Or that you won your investment back. Either way within one tax year Dave will be out of school and will be only getting 20% back.

I agree it is symantics. unfortunately, this week with all the nuts weather here in Texas, I really have not had the time to look for links. You have a point...plus the thread has kinda diverged since the beginning.

--
All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

[SkyDekker 1,150]

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I agree it is symantics. unfortunately, this week with all the nuts weather here in Texas

Hey you guys only get that once a decade!!!! Up here we get that 5 months ever year

[flyingferret 0]

Haaa, Haaaa
Actually, man this stuff was nuts! Abnormal even for the north.

--
All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI.

[harryskydives 0]

I believe everyone should have the right to required medical care, even if I have to pay some of the cost,

Mexico population 90+ million
South America 200+ million
Africa ??
I would like to see a workable Health care system for the good old US of A. Then we could start sharing with the rest of the World. Of course they would just call us arrogent and refuse help like Mandela refusing corn seed from us because we could not prove to them that the seeds might have some genetic engineering.

Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time...

[Icarus129 0]

I've been reading this whole forum and I am sadden by it! So much hate that people have here againest somebody that is not an American. I've heard nothing but good things about dropzone.com but now i see it was a lie! So much hate ,This will be my last time here! Just a thought what if i was to treat people that come skydive here like you treat your own people there,would you want to skydive here?

[harryskydives 0]

Actually....most of us are 100% American. American is not a race! It is a culture, They want to get the benefits, but sing praises about all the nostalgia of the old country.
--
Exactly: Borders, language, culture.
Back to the original post. How would you like it if you found some one stealing stuff from you home?? Just because they need it, That is all right??
If the goverment does it: That is the primis of communision. And we know how well that works. ( N korea!)

Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time...

[cgross 1]

WEll, Icarus it will be a shame to see you go, and I mean that. I think you need to step back away from this and understand this has nothing to do with skydiving, but instead about foriegn and domestic policy.

See, many people have many view about all different topics. Because someones views differ from yours doesn't mean you can not be friendly with them. I dissagree with many of my friends. I can't speak for everyone, but at no time did I express hate toward anyone. You see, this is the "TALKBACK" forum. A place where we meet and debate, or just talk about anything NON-Skydiving. If this thread is making you not want to belong to DZ.com, then I am sorry. But istead of judging the entire forum based on 1 thread, maybe you should look around.

Here's the thing: I am sure there are women in this site who are offended that us guys post pictures of BOOBIES all day, but guess what. Thay stick around, they just don't expose themselve to that particular thread.

I don't know you, maybe someday I will, heck, maybe we'll jump together someday, but I get the sense that you are reacting to this a bit too much.

[Icarus129 0]

I just see the mean comments Mr Ron has said againest the Mexican people,I hope not everyone thinks like him,I can't find it in my heart to say some of the stuff some people have said here,I go to the states all the time and have jumped Eloy,Perris,Lake Elsinore,But I think I'll be safer in my country, This war has everybody crazy i guess, And just want to lash out at people from diffrant countrys i think! I use to think skydivers understood the word diffrant,cause we're diffrant!

[cgross 1]

you are right we are different, and we have different views.

I am glad to see you voice concern about this. I think you will find that it is actually very few of us who are hateful. However, we are very passionate. It is important to be able to make that distiction.

You got my PM's, and I hope you understand where I am coming from. I also hope that sometime if I ever make it to the south west we could do a jump together. That would show you that despite our difference we have a common love for the greatest thing in the world.

Chris

[tb62871 0]

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IF you don't like it...pack your bags poncho!!

Ron

So what do you call this MR BILLVON??

[wmw999 2,166]

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I took it to mean AMERICA LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT.

I've generally found that people who say that are really telling me that if I don't agree with them, I'm un-American. Which is kind of offensive to me; I thought Americans could disagree.

I took the comment, given the context and the addressee, to be the kind of thoughtless comment that's not intended as racist or offensive, but comes off that way.

Seeing the comment maker's team web page, I know it's not that. But it took looking at the team web page (and seeing the members of the teams) to really be sure.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)