Howard Stern

[Muenkel 0]

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Have you ever had sex just for the sake of having sex? Not as an expression of love or to procreate, but just to have a good time?

If so, isn't that objectification of women?

So what you're saying here is if someone happens to do an act out of weakness or perhaps poor judgement at the time, then that makes it OK? The difference here is that we are not perfect and do make mistakes (or sins), but we should learn from them and set higher standards for ourselves. Perhaps become stronger so when the temptation comes back we may exercise our free will and perhaps make a different choice.

I think what we are talking about is instead of society raising its moral standards it's giving into the "whatever feels good" mentality and lowering its moral standards.

Chris

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Chris

[txblondie 0]

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seems we lost everyone. maybe they went to lunch

Yepper, I'd say so

Still here, just waiting for the opportunity to jump back in; you know, the bait and all.
Plus, trying to get some work done; the boss has been looking over my shoulder for awhile now! Pity me, please!

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Blondes do have more fun!

[jtval 0]

well I gotta go to bed. you should told your boss to chill out ! LOL

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[Casie 0]

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seems we lost everyone. maybe they went to lunch

Yepper, I'd say so

Still here, just waiting for the opportunity to jump back in; you know, the bait and all.
Plus, trying to get some work done; the boss has been looking over my shoulder for awhile now! Pity me, please!

I know what ya mean, my little fingers are hurting trying to pw & actually do some work

~Porn Kitty
WARNING: Goldschlager causes extreme emotional outbursts!

[PhillyKev 0]

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So what you're saying here is if someone happens to do an act out of weakness or perhaps poor judgement at the time, then that makes it OK?

Not at all. I was just trying to find out if he lived by the moral code he was espousing. He answered it honestly and fairly.

I am confused by your moral stance though, considering this.

[jtval 0]

BWWABAAAHAHAHH!

he shoots, he scores! LOL

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[sinker 0]

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If you talk to women in the sex industry, they believe that they are ahead of the game. They recieve
money for their looks and bodies. "Look at me, I get money for doing nothing but being pretty and naked."
I can't make the decision of what is demeaning to them. They are on the show because it is business.

and again I counter, just b/c it's business doesn't mean it's demeaning. Isn't prostitution demeaning? Sure, some here will say it isn't at least for those who CHOOSE to engage in that activity. Why is relativity the new religion? Why are all matters of morality or ethics a matter of personal choice these days? "Well, I'm ok w/ having sex with 10 year old boys, so it's not immoral." "Hey, I have no problem with men looking at woman as if they are only walking vaginas that exist only to get men's rocks off - if that's the way they want to live their life, far be it from me to tell them what is right and wrong!" It's amazing to me that people don't see how incredibly rediculous this is! There exist fundamental and universal truths that exist for humans. I'm not talking about religious beliefs. I'm talking about natural law. One of the fundamental natural laws is that it is wrong to USE another person as in a manner that is inconsistant w/ the nature of the person. I.e., it is wrong to use women as an object to fuck. And that's what HS promotes.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[PhillyKev 0]

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One of the fundamental natural laws is that it is wrong to USE another person as in a manner that is inconsistant w/ the nature of the person. I.e., it is wrong to use women as an object to fuck. And that's what HS promotes.

While I agree that using anyone is wrong, isn't the true nature of gender exactly for the purpose of fucking?

[happythoughts 0]

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Still here, just waiting for the opportunity to jump back in;

Ok, from a womans point of view:

Would you rather be:
a- Ruth Bader Ginsberg. Known for brains, not looks. Supreme court justice, obviously incredibly hard working person who has established a career through enormous hard work.

b- Miss America. Known for good looks, not brains. However, you will marry the Governor of Kentucky, choose if you wish to work, and will live a life of luxury.

c- Porn queen. Known for looks, not brains. You didn't have certain advantages in early life, but now make $300K a year on your website and have total freedom. You also appear on HS to show your boobies like 5,000 times before.

[txblondie 0]

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One of the fundamental natural laws is that it is wrong to USE another person as in a manner that is inconsistant w/ the nature of the person. I.e., it is wrong to use women as an object to fuck. And that's what HS promotes.

While I agree that using anyone is wrong, isn't the true nature of gender exactly for the purpose of fucking?

And see, all this time I thought we were just supposed to be for decoration.

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Blondes do have more fun!

[crapflinger2000 1]

The SHOW is funny as hell and I listen....

Howard Stern himself is:

1) utterly predictable
2) kinda dumb
3) an asshole for using some of the whack-pack people he does, for example Gary the Retard, and that retarded girl who calls in all the time and sings. He uses these people shamelessly.

But I still listen... because the show is funny and is basically a buncha people fucking with one another...

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What would Vic Mackey do?

[txblondie 0]

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Still here, just waiting for the opportunity to jump back in;

Ok, from a womans point of view:

Would you rather be:
a- Ruth Bader Ginsberg. Known for brains, not looks. Supreme court justice, obviously incredibly hard working person who has established a career through enormous hard work.

b- Miss America. Known for good looks, not brains. However, you will marry the Governor of Kentucky, choose if you wish to work, and will live a life of luxury.

c- Porn queen. Known for looks, not brains. You didn't have certain advantages in early life, but now make $300K a year on your website and have total freedom. You also appear on HS to show your boobies like 5,000 times before.

Wow, like there are no other options for women...
Does that mean that to be pretty I have to be stupid? Because I may not think I'm gorgeous or a genius, but I believe that I am attractive and smart, and I don't have to settle for ANY of those stereotypes.

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Blondes do have more fun!

[Muenkel 0]

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The difference here is that we are not perfect and do make mistakes (or sins), but we should learn from them and set higher standards for ourselves. Perhaps become stronger so when the temptation comes back we may exercise our free will and perhaps make a different choice.

Kevin,

Maybe you didn't see this part of my post. I am human and do appreciate a beautiful woman. And I admit, when they're there I've looked. But check the thread again, I never once added a pic to that thread. I do have the humility to say that I have promoted it from time to time, which actually does go against my beliefs. But as I said, I am human and am learning from my mistakes. The truth be told IMO, I contributed by promoting that thread, but it still does not change my opinion that it objectifies women.

Chris

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Chris

[Genn 0]

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Ok, from a womans point of view:

Would you rather be:
a- Ruth Bader Ginsberg. Known for brains, not looks. Supreme court justice, obviously incredibly hard working person who has established a career through enormous hard work.

b- Miss America. Known for good looks, not brains. However, you will marry the Governor of Kentucky, choose if you wish to work, and will live a life of luxury.

c- Porn queen. Known for looks, not brains. You didn't have certain advantages in early life, but now make $300K a year on your website and have total freedom. You also appear on HS to show your boobies like 5,000 times before.

I choose "D"...ya know, the one where you can be beautiful AND intelligent.

[PhillyKev 0]

Well, I've got to say both you and sinker are refreshing. I appreciate your honesty and your views. People who preach a higher moral code but don't try to live up to it themselves tick me off. At least you guys are honest and not the way too typical "holier than thou" types.

[happythoughts 0]

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One of the fundamental natural laws is that it is wrong to USE another person as in a manner that is inconsistant w/ the nature of the person

I agree. Liking sex is the nature of quite a few people, men and women. I do not believe that a lot of women see themselves as "used". There are a lot of aggressive women who only want the guy for sex too.

You seem to want to define the natural laws, but I am saying that just-for-fun sex is a natural thing.

[billvon 2,400]

>So what you're saying here is if someone happens to do an act out
> of weakness or perhaps poor judgement at the time, then that
> makes it OK?

No, I think that he's saying that if two people just want to have sex, and they do, it's not even poor judgement (provided they're careful blah blah.) Nothing wrong with being treated like an object if that's what you want - and that applies to far more than sex.

[sinker 0]

Someone once said that the best case for Christians are... other Christians. And in the next breath they said, one of the worst case for Christians are... other Christians.

We see it all the time. Priests abusing kids. Priests having affairs w/ women. Protestant ministers getting caught employing prostitutes. Church officials embezzling money or cheating their congregations.

You will ALWAYS be able to catch people who espouse Christian ideals at FAILING to meet those high standards. You'll find it in other circles as well. ALWAYS. And it is BECAUSE the bar is set so high. I've met both the Pope and Mother Theresa. And as good as they are/were, they still made mistakes. They still sinned. They still are/were far from perfect. I have yet to meet a perfect Christian. I am certainly not one and I've never claimed to be. That is why it is hard sometimes to honestly share my beliefs and values with others... knowing I fail so often and knowing that when others see that I fail may send the wrong message about Christianity as a whole. It's too easy for people to say they will not follow a Christian ethic because of the hypocrisy of others. But JT himself said it best... we are ALL hypocrites. NONE of us live up to our own internal standards 100% of the time, whether we are Christian, Muslim, Bhuddist (sp?), agnostic, aethiestic, etc.

But you know what? That doesn't mean we have nothing to say. That doesn't mean that the MESSAGE isn't true. I'm not perfect, AND I'll express my values and beliefs, inspite of being a shitty Christian, BECAUSE I know that, even though the goal is lofty and hard to attain, it is worth trying for.

I think it was an unfair thing, what you did to Muenkel by searching his former posts on the Tittee bar threads and whatnot. You can search mine too, you'll see that I contributed as well. Not proud of it, but I have done it. Again, I'm not perfect. That doesn't mean I shouldn't strive to meet the ideals I've set for myself.

I will be the first to admit that part of the reason I feel so strongly about the topic of objectifying women is that I have, for so long, been an objectifier of women. And I realize that for some of you reading these posts will henceforth discredit what I have to say b/c I've had a change of heart. B/c I was a womanizer, and am still often tempted to be one, but try hard to NOT be one now. But you know what? People change. People grow up. They sometimes experience life events, such as having children in my case, that causes a paradigm shift. It's a shame that too many people are quick to yell "hypocrite" to such people.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[happythoughts 0]

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Wow, like there are no other options for women...
Does that mean that to be pretty I have to be stupid? Because I may not think I'm gorgeous or a genius, but I believe that I am attractive and smart, and I don't have to settle for ANY of those stereotypes.

Plenty of options in real life. Just thought I would get your opinion on those options. "I would rather be...(choice) because...(reasons)." Now I still don't know what you think. "I don't like HS" is a statement, but I was interested in the "why".

Personally, I draw little distinction between:
a- women who work in porn movies and appear on HS to promote it,
b- women who take off their clothes in other movies and are treated as "serious" actresses.
c- women who sleep with rich guys.

[billvon 2,400]

>Would you rather be:

Gotta add some more options here:

d- Julie Richter. Skydiver, gorgeous, accomplished (on the 300 way with 400 jumps) and smart (chemical engineer.)

e- Heidi Howkins. First woman to climb Kanchenjunga, made 2 attempts on K2. Good looking, athletic. 2 kids. Went to Wellesely undergrad and MIT to work on her doctorate. Wrote a book for National Geographic, now lives at home with her family

f- JK Rowling. Good looking. Wrote some pretty good books.

There are as many options as there are women out there. Being ugly and being smart are not anything like synonymous.

[txblondie 0]

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Wow, like there are no other options for women...
Does that mean that to be pretty I have to be stupid? Because I may not think I'm gorgeous or a genius, but I believe that I am attractive and smart, and I don't have to settle for ANY of those stereotypes.

Plenty of options in real life. Just thought I would get your opinion on those options. "I would rather be...(choice) because...(reasons)." Now I still don't know what you think. "I don't like HS" is a statement, but I was interested in the "why".

Personally, I draw little distinction between:
a- women who work in porn movies and appear on HS to promote it,
b- women who take off their clothes in other movies and are treated as "serious" actresses.
c- women who sleep with rich guys.

Interesting; I can see your point there, I'm just not sure I totally agree. What I can tell you is that I have no part in any of the above and never plan to...
I don't need to use sex or sex appeal for money, because I HAVE A BRAIN!

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Blondes do have more fun!

[sinker 0]

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Well, I've got to say both you and sinker are refreshing. I appreciate your honesty and your views. People
who preach a higher moral code but don't try to live up to it themselves tick me off. At least you guys
are honest and not the way too typical "holier than thou" types.

Thank you. And I couldn't agree more. I know I've fucked up many many many times. And I'm more humble b/c of it. But I'm still trying to get better. I still fuck up, but I have a wife who loves me and supports me, and other good friends who see the good in me despite a lot of poor choices I make.

Holy-than-thou types make me sick. Unfortunately, we've all heard so many of them that it is too tempting to label ANYONE who even remotely sounds "preachy" as such a bastard.

-the artist formerly known as sinker

[txblondie 0]

There are as many options as there are women out there. Being ugly and being smart are not anything like synonymous.

[happythoughts 0]

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That doesn't mean I shouldn't strive to meet the ideals I've set for myself.

I guess this is the whole thing. I think that sex between consenting unmarried adults is ok. It does not seem to be an "ideal" to avoid it. I do not think that most people feel "used".

I do not think that people who have sex are "FAILING to meet those high standards".

[PhillyKev 0]

I don't know if you interpreted my post as sarcasm, but it wasn't. I wasn't calling you a hypocrite. I genuinely appreciate that you want to set a higher standard for yourself and attempt to live up to it. I was contrasting you guys and those who preach a moral code but don't even try, those are the hypocrites, and they're also usually the most vocal and visible.