billvon 2,466 #26 August 28, 2003 >So are you agaist the war, wars in general, or just GWB? Gotta be more specific. There have been a lot of wars lately. There was the war in Afghanistan. I was (reluctantly) for going in to destroy the Al Qaeda training camps set up there while doing as little damage to the rest of the country as possible. Instead we invaded the capital and a few cities and basically occupied them, and didn't do as much in the outlying regions where the camps are. The result - we are now in a running battle with both Al Qaeda (who apparently survived our attempts to oust them and are gathering strength) and the Taliban, who are regrouping. From Reuters: "Operating in growing numbers, the Taliban and their allies have succeeded in destabilizing large parts of Afghanistan and creating conditions that could undermine the U.S. military and central government." We have no clear way to exit now. We won't be leaving any time soon and that means a lot of dead US soldiers, PLUS a lot more Al Qaeda members as they find a new Israel to fight. There was the war in Iraq. We should have listened to the UNMOVIC and IAEA, the inspection teams - heck, it turned out they were right and we were wrong. If we had stuck to their inspection schedule, we would have had more time to: -finish the war in Afghanistan and get out (which should still be a priority even if it's not that glamorous) -verify that Saddam really had no WMD's -support the inspection infrastructure to ensure that he did not have WMD's, could not make them, and could not threaten people with them. There is the forever war against terrorism. It's being used to do just about anything the administration wants, from reducing first amendment rights to trying to catch drug dealers to increasing police powers. The only reason we are at greater risk today for terrorism than we were before 9/11 is that we are currently killing a lot of Arabs, and killing lots of people makes their families and friends hate you. There is an obvious solution to this - stop killing so many Arabs. Wars are a bad way to do that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #27 August 28, 2003 QuoteThere is an obvious solution to this - stop killing so many Arabs. You could just as easily ask the state sponsored terrorist to stop attacks against civilians. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,466 #28 August 28, 2003 >You could just as easily ask the state sponsored terrorist to stop >attacks against civilians. I think we like supporting our 'freedom fighters' too much to ever ask that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #29 August 28, 2003 QuoteQuotethe war against illiteracy, etc. Does that mean I could sign up in some sort of army and get to shoot illiterate white trash? But some of my favorite people and most of my relatives are illiterate white trash????? This drinking thing sounds good though. Count me in on that.....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #30 August 29, 2003 I suppose a PM to Rhino was out of the question? Greenies shouldn't troll. FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #31 August 29, 2003 Quote I suppose a PM to Rhino was out of the question? Greenies shouldn't troll. ROFLMAO! Touche! About 4 responses up I had the same thought... Ciels- Michel ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #32 August 29, 2003 QuoteI suppose a PM to Rhino was out of the question? Greenies shouldn't troll. The wager was made in the forums, not in PM's. Perhaps others were interested in the outcome of the wager? I don't see this thread as a troll. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 151 #33 August 29, 2003 Bill I've got a question. I was against the war in Iraq just for background as it was fairly obvious bullshit about them being a CURRENT THREAT to us in the west. I also don't buy the argument that its right to enforce the UN's will by ignoring the UN The question is that Iraq was actively engaged in DEVELOPING WMD which could/would have posed a long term threat to his neighbours and possibly us. What do you think that we should have done?Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kmcguffee 0 #34 August 29, 2003 QuoteI suppose a PM to Rhino was out of the question? Greenies shouldn't troll My thoughts exactly. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #35 August 29, 2003 QuoteThe wager was made in the forums, not in PM's. Perhaps others were interested in the outcome of the wager? I don't see this thread as a troll. I agree completely. The comments that prompted the bet were public and vehement. So if the outcome is public (and even a little humbling) that seems appropriate. Nobody was forced into anything. Now it is time for Rhino to admit Bill was right, send his check off to the charity mentioned and move on with a little more wisdom and knowledge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,150 #36 August 29, 2003 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I suppose a PM to Rhino was out of the question? Greenies shouldn't troll -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My thoughts exactly. I don't agree. A public bet was made and accepted on these forums before the war. It is now time to collect on it, since it was made and accepted publicly there is no problem with it being collected publicly. It is funny that only the proponents of the war are complaining about this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #37 August 29, 2003 Hey.. No matter to me.. The war isn't over in Iraq. I speak as a Marine.. I stick by my word. By the time the war is over proof will be produced that even Bill is o.k. with.. lol And I think Bill is underestimating how good our soldiers are. They are AMAZING people that are rooting out those slugs in Afghanistan and Iraq. What is really scary is that our boys and girls over there are getting better every day. They are adapting faster then the enemy can think. With the enemies limited intelligence it isn't a surprise.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jimbo 0 #38 August 29, 2003 QuoteThe war isn't over in Iraq. Rhino, at what point is the war officially over? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shark 0 #39 August 29, 2003 QuoteIt is funny that only the proponents of the war are complaining about this. Quit whining. You're stereotyping. If you want to bet, go to Vegas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #40 August 29, 2003 That is a very good question.. If we ever get there I will let you know... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bmcd308 0 #41 August 29, 2003 I might be defending billvon on a political thread, but there's no way I'm buying beer. Anyway, he's not trolling, he's gloating. Those are different. And when the day comes, and with an election coming up, you can bet your a$$ it will, that we "find" a shiny WMD with the US markings scratched off it over there, you can bet that Rhino will be doing similar gloating, and Bill will be stuck making a contribution to the NRA-ILA. But anyway, I don't think it's fair to accuse him of trolling. Brent ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #42 August 29, 2003 BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! LOL BWahahahahahahahaha!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites meatmissile 0 #43 August 29, 2003 Hold your horses Bill, I heard that they found a suspicious pop-rivet in the desert outside Basra last week, experts say it may be of the type used on the outer skin joints of Intergalactic Hypersodomizer Mark III missiles . -- ZZZzzzz.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,466 #44 August 29, 2003 >The question is that Iraq was actively engaged in DEVELOPING WMD. . . Not sure I buy that. We know they had them during the Iran/Iraq war; they certainly have far less of them now, even if you believe the people who claim we'll find some eventually. There's a good chance they have none at all. They certainly destroyed at least some of them per UN mandate. That would mean they were actively engaged in destroying WMD's, which is the opposite of developing them. In any case: > which could/would have posed a long term threat to his neighbours >and possibly us. What do you think that we should have done? I agree that in the future he could restart his WMD program. To prevent that we could strongly support the UN inspection program such that he cannot restart production without us knowing about it. Our intelligence isn't _that_ bad; given access to his country and all the resources at our disposal, we'd have prior warning if he tried to restart production. Of course, if history is any guide, had we left him alone within a decade or so we might well be encouraging him to develop and use WMD's (or at least use his conventional forces) on someone we considered a security risk. (i.e. knowing what we know now, and projecting ahead ten years - will Iraq or Iran be a greater threat to the US?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,466 #45 August 29, 2003 >The war isn't over in Iraq. OK, when will it be over? Our president has declared the end of major hostilities; what would have to happen before it was officially over? >And I think Bill is underestimating how good our soldiers are. Our soldiers are the best in the world. That doesn't mean they will always accomplish the objectives of politicians. We didn't win in Viet Nam, a country where our goal was to rid a country of a certain group (the communists.) Our soldiers were no worse, no less adaptable, back then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skreamer 1 #46 August 29, 2003 QuoteWhat is really scary is that our boys and girls over there are getting better every day. They are adapting faster then the enemy can think. With the enemies limited intelligence it isn't a surprise.. Aaah, America's answer to Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf - glad to see you have found your true calling in life man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #47 August 29, 2003 Quote>The war isn't over in Iraq. OK, when will it be over? Our president has declared the end of major hostilities; what would have to happen before it was officially over?Quote And I guess he missed this: President Says Military Phase in Iraq Has Ended By David E. Sanger New York Times May 2, 2003 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #48 August 29, 2003 QuoteOur president has declared the end of major hostilities That doesn't mean it is over. And as I stated previously I will tell you when I think it is over. If it ends.. QuoteOur soldiers are the best in the world. That doesn't mean they will always accomplish the objectives of politicians. True.. But what they have done is good and just.. And I support them allways.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,466 #49 August 29, 2003 >And as I stated previously I will tell you when I think it is over. If it ends.. OK, well, I guess it will be a while then. Vietnam lasted eight years; I hope Iraq doesn't last as long, or have as many casualties. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #50 August 29, 2003 QuoteThat doesn't mean it is over. And as I stated previously I will tell you when I think it is over. If it ends.. In other words, if they ever find WMD, Rhino will declare it over and demand that you pay up. Until then, he'll welch on his bet. Technically, the Korean war is not over, just on pause. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
SkyDekker 1,150 #36 August 29, 2003 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I suppose a PM to Rhino was out of the question? Greenies shouldn't troll -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My thoughts exactly. I don't agree. A public bet was made and accepted on these forums before the war. It is now time to collect on it, since it was made and accepted publicly there is no problem with it being collected publicly. It is funny that only the proponents of the war are complaining about this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #37 August 29, 2003 Hey.. No matter to me.. The war isn't over in Iraq. I speak as a Marine.. I stick by my word. By the time the war is over proof will be produced that even Bill is o.k. with.. lol And I think Bill is underestimating how good our soldiers are. They are AMAZING people that are rooting out those slugs in Afghanistan and Iraq. What is really scary is that our boys and girls over there are getting better every day. They are adapting faster then the enemy can think. With the enemies limited intelligence it isn't a surprise.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #38 August 29, 2003 QuoteThe war isn't over in Iraq. Rhino, at what point is the war officially over? - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #39 August 29, 2003 QuoteIt is funny that only the proponents of the war are complaining about this. Quit whining. You're stereotyping. If you want to bet, go to Vegas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #40 August 29, 2003 That is a very good question.. If we ever get there I will let you know... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bmcd308 0 #41 August 29, 2003 I might be defending billvon on a political thread, but there's no way I'm buying beer. Anyway, he's not trolling, he's gloating. Those are different. And when the day comes, and with an election coming up, you can bet your a$$ it will, that we "find" a shiny WMD with the US markings scratched off it over there, you can bet that Rhino will be doing similar gloating, and Bill will be stuck making a contribution to the NRA-ILA. But anyway, I don't think it's fair to accuse him of trolling. Brent ---------------------------------- www.jumpelvis.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #42 August 29, 2003 BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! LOL BWahahahahahahahaha!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meatmissile 0 #43 August 29, 2003 Hold your horses Bill, I heard that they found a suspicious pop-rivet in the desert outside Basra last week, experts say it may be of the type used on the outer skin joints of Intergalactic Hypersodomizer Mark III missiles . -- ZZZzzzz.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,466 #44 August 29, 2003 >The question is that Iraq was actively engaged in DEVELOPING WMD. . . Not sure I buy that. We know they had them during the Iran/Iraq war; they certainly have far less of them now, even if you believe the people who claim we'll find some eventually. There's a good chance they have none at all. They certainly destroyed at least some of them per UN mandate. That would mean they were actively engaged in destroying WMD's, which is the opposite of developing them. In any case: > which could/would have posed a long term threat to his neighbours >and possibly us. What do you think that we should have done? I agree that in the future he could restart his WMD program. To prevent that we could strongly support the UN inspection program such that he cannot restart production without us knowing about it. Our intelligence isn't _that_ bad; given access to his country and all the resources at our disposal, we'd have prior warning if he tried to restart production. Of course, if history is any guide, had we left him alone within a decade or so we might well be encouraging him to develop and use WMD's (or at least use his conventional forces) on someone we considered a security risk. (i.e. knowing what we know now, and projecting ahead ten years - will Iraq or Iran be a greater threat to the US?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,466 #45 August 29, 2003 >The war isn't over in Iraq. OK, when will it be over? Our president has declared the end of major hostilities; what would have to happen before it was officially over? >And I think Bill is underestimating how good our soldiers are. Our soldiers are the best in the world. That doesn't mean they will always accomplish the objectives of politicians. We didn't win in Viet Nam, a country where our goal was to rid a country of a certain group (the communists.) Our soldiers were no worse, no less adaptable, back then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #46 August 29, 2003 QuoteWhat is really scary is that our boys and girls over there are getting better every day. They are adapting faster then the enemy can think. With the enemies limited intelligence it isn't a surprise.. Aaah, America's answer to Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf - glad to see you have found your true calling in life man. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #47 August 29, 2003 Quote>The war isn't over in Iraq. OK, when will it be over? Our president has declared the end of major hostilities; what would have to happen before it was officially over?Quote And I guess he missed this: President Says Military Phase in Iraq Has Ended By David E. Sanger New York Times May 2, 2003 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #48 August 29, 2003 QuoteOur president has declared the end of major hostilities That doesn't mean it is over. And as I stated previously I will tell you when I think it is over. If it ends.. QuoteOur soldiers are the best in the world. That doesn't mean they will always accomplish the objectives of politicians. True.. But what they have done is good and just.. And I support them allways.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,466 #49 August 29, 2003 >And as I stated previously I will tell you when I think it is over. If it ends.. OK, well, I guess it will be a while then. Vietnam lasted eight years; I hope Iraq doesn't last as long, or have as many casualties. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #50 August 29, 2003 QuoteThat doesn't mean it is over. And as I stated previously I will tell you when I think it is over. If it ends.. In other words, if they ever find WMD, Rhino will declare it over and demand that you pay up. Until then, he'll welch on his bet. Technically, the Korean war is not over, just on pause. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
rhino 0 #48 August 29, 2003 QuoteOur president has declared the end of major hostilities That doesn't mean it is over. And as I stated previously I will tell you when I think it is over. If it ends.. QuoteOur soldiers are the best in the world. That doesn't mean they will always accomplish the objectives of politicians. True.. But what they have done is good and just.. And I support them allways.. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,466 #49 August 29, 2003 >And as I stated previously I will tell you when I think it is over. If it ends.. OK, well, I guess it will be a while then. Vietnam lasted eight years; I hope Iraq doesn't last as long, or have as many casualties. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #50 August 29, 2003 QuoteThat doesn't mean it is over. And as I stated previously I will tell you when I think it is over. If it ends.. In other words, if they ever find WMD, Rhino will declare it over and demand that you pay up. Until then, he'll welch on his bet. Technically, the Korean war is not over, just on pause. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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