Bowling For Columbine

[PhillyKev 0]

Hmmm..sounds like California.

This is where they say that legally registered rifles were not registered properly due to a screw up by the registering authority, and owners must turn in those weapons without any compensation.

You see, what they did was say, ok, we're going to make certain rifles illegal. Such as the SSK with a detachable magazine. The one with the attached mag is ok though (make sense?). But, we'll be nice about it and we're not going to infringe on your rights, so, we're not really going to make them illegal, we'll just make you register them.

Wait a couple years....ok, now they're illegal. You must turn them in and we'll give you a small fraction of their value. Unfortunately, only law abiding citizens will get that bit of cash back, since they're the only ones to register. The criminals don't get any cash, they just get to keep their now illegal guns.

Wait a couple months......whoops, we told you that you had to register them and now you have to turn them in. But, even though you registered them, we're not going to pay you any money for them. You see, we were supposed to stop letting you register them by a certain date, but we let you keep doing it (aren't we nice). So, if we let you register it after that date, you get to turn it in for nothing. Unfortunately, criminals don't have the pleasure of turning in their weapons and we can't do anything about it since they never registered in the first place. And, since we know you have the gun, if you don't turn it in, we're going to come and arrest you.

And they did.

[goose491 0]

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Moore is kind of like that in the sense that if the media didn't talk about gun-murders so much, it wouldn't be as big of an occurance.

So, he's a hypocrite? Considering his media based documentary also seems to try to imply that gun murders are commonplace.

Wrong. Moore is pissed that the media makes violence in general commonplace.

That's why he walked down that "dangerous" L.A. street, that's why he says "This is where all the murders take place?" almost laughing at the fact that you always hear about shooting on that very corner. He's pointing out the fact that murder IS sensationalised... to the point where it almost perpetuates itself through desensitisation and fear.

Does everybody remember that scene? Moore himself notes that the damn smog kills more people than people do.

Nowhere does he say that gun murders are commonplace. He merely wants to know why there are so many more (percentage wise) in the US? There's a reason he goes to see Heston near the end of the movie. Because there is no doubt that a lot of people simply blame guns for gun violence... Thusly, a lot of people blame the NRA for high gun crimes. I'm pretty sure the NRA is aware of this... You'd think their Spokesperson would therefore have some sort of answer. But no! When asked why he thought more Americans kill eachother each year that any others on the globe, Heston fumbles with multiculturalism? (BTW, Canada is a LOT more diversified... Toronto is the most multy-cultural city in the world)

Each person that simply throws his/her hands in the air and says "Hey! It's not my fault!" contributes to the problem.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[goose491 0]

I know Philly, I saw the NRA recruitment vedios too. Do I agree with these tactics? No.

But it isn't the same and you Americans ARE presently allowed to own and carry guns. Stop bickering about which ones you can have and which ones you can't and notice that in Iraq right now, people are NOT allowed to carry.

You ask me how the rules are different and I showed you.

It doesn't say they must register this... then wait and some of 'em get taken away. It says unauthorised weapons must be handed in. It also says that you cannot carry the authorised weapons around. They must remain in your place of business or in your home.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[PhillyKev 0]

Ok....the rules are different in Iraq. So what? It's a freakin' war zone for crying out loud. The contrast is invalid.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

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Ok....the rules are different in Iraq. So what? It's a freakin' war zone for crying out loud. The contrast is invalid.

A war was never declared. Major operations we were told were over (I remember it well, GWB flying onto the carrier, claiming voctory, the banner, etc.).

So, now we are in the rebuilding stage. we are creating a democracy. Since according to you guns are so important to ensure that a state remains a democracy and no tyrannical ruler will come to power, I would assume the US would want the Iraqi citizens to carry guns, since that would help their cause.

[PhillyKev 0]

Yes, you're right, give the Iraqi's all the weapons that they want. I agree...you're point is completely valid and rational. There is absolutely no sarcasm intended in this post. I'm in awe of your powers of logic. Iraq is completely free and democratic and should have every right and freedom that encompasses.

I refuse to address this aspect of the conversation any longer because it makes me feel like I'm having a hallucinagenic flash back. It just doesn't make sense.

[goose491 0]

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Ok....the rules are different in Iraq. So what? It's a freakin' war zone for crying out loud. The contrast is invalid.

Got to love this

We ask: "If guns are mandatory to overthrow a possible future villainous leader, then why take them away from people we are presently trying to free from a villainous leader?"

You say: "Prove it!"

I prove it and you say: "Ok....the rules are different in Iraq. So what? It's a freakin' war zone for crying out loud. The contrast is invalid"

Thanks Philly, I wish you had of told me you didn't care either way... I wouldn't have bothered.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[goose491 0]

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I refuse to address this aspect of the conversation any longer because it makes me feel like I'm having a hallucinagenic flash back. It just doesn't make sense.

Do you remember how "this aspect of the conversation" started? I've just recapped it for you... It makes perfect sense. A question was asked of you but before you answered, you asked for proof... do you care to answer now or is it:

[covers ears] lalalalalalalalalal! [/covers ears]

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[JohnRich 4]

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This is how I know you didn't read that link... 'cause if you did, you would have read this:

None of what you posted changed my statement. The Iraqiis are allowed to own a wide variety of handguns and long guns, like semi-auto AK-type rifles, in their homes. And those same weapons are illegal in many places in America, like Washington D.C., New York City, and Chicago.

[goose491 0]

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Funny, I've spent 44 years within a couple of hours of Toronto and I can't remember not locking the door before going to bed ever...

Not everyone in the world is as lucky as you are to live in a crime-free area.

Don't judge the rest of the world based upon your own little microcosm.

John ,

READ BEFORE YOU POST! especially with such Sarcasm and Belittlement.

I should speak eh? lol, was it the double-negative that threw you?

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[goose491 0]

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This is how I know you didn't read that link... 'cause if you did, you would have read this:

None of what you posted changed my statement. The Iraqiis are allowed to own a wide variety of handguns and long guns, like semi-auto AK-type rifles, in their homes.

OMFG I can't believe it... you didn't read it AGAIN??! What I posted, was proof that they are NOT! Is the AK automoatic? What is the diameter of the round in the AK-47? anyone?... anyone? 7.62x39mm




"Starting June 1, the people of Iraq will have a 14-day amnesty period to turn in unauthorized weapons to Coalition forces at weapons control points here and throughout the country.

Unauthorized weapons are defined as: automatic firearms firing ammunition larger than 7.62mm; machine guns or crew-served weapons; anti-tank weapons; anti-aircraft weapons; indirect fire weapons; all armored vehicles or self-propelled weapons; and high explosives and explosive devices.

No one in Iraq, unless authorized, may possess, conceal, hide or bury these weapons. No one can trade, sell, barter, give or exchange automatic or heavy weapons with or to any person who is not an authorized representative of Coalition forces."


Now,for the love of the ability to read, do not come back at me telling me Iraqiis are allowed to have these weapons when it is clear that they are not.

My Karma ran over my Dogma!!!

[Deuce 1]

I don't care about the argument you guys are having, you haven't said anything new in literally days, however, reading this regulation it is clear they can have automatic rifles that fire 7.62X39 ammo. It says they cannot have anything larger. Like whatever the Russian version of an M60 is.

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Unauthorized weapons are defined as: automatic firearms firing ammunition larger than 7.62mm;

[mnischalke 0]

Hey Goose

Ever been to a war zone? How bout on a peace-keeping mission? How about one during the rebuilding of a government? Well, sir, I have.

You know my position on firearms in America. I tend to have a differing opinion of a country we are currently trying to rebuild, which has no central government to overthrow, btw. In a country such as Iraq, there are no uniformed soldiers attacking us on a daily basis. Our aggressors are blended into the fabric of the society in which we must patrol to maintain peace.

Having rode security atop many a HMMWV, only to have the locals riding down the street with their AKs hanging out the window, finger on the trigger, muzzle in the general direction of my mellon, I can certainly see the need to keep all non-uniformed folks unarmed until things settle down. The good guys get twitchy when someone is walking around, sighting in his new AK on random stuff, while they are watching for potential ambushes. It just helps increase threat recognition.

So, do the same rules apply over there as over here? Nope. Should they? Not yet, IMHO.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[JohnRich 4]

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I should speak eh? lol, was it the double-negative that threw you?

Uh, yep, you got me with that. My apologies for misconstruing your statement. There really wasn't any "belittlement" intended in it anyway.

[JohnRich 4]

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OMFG I can't believe it... you didn't read it AGAIN??! What I posted, was proof that they are NOT! Is the AK automoatic? What is the diameter of the round in the AK-47? anyone?... anyone? 7.62x39mm

Not all AK's are automatics. That's a common misconception, thanks to the news media, and apparently is one for which you have fallen victim.

Furthermore, the ban is for calibers larger than 7.62, which means that the AK-type guns are all perfectly legal in Iraq, since they do not exceed that value.

It would appear that it is you who is not understanding the situation correctly.

[mnischalke 0]

AK rifles are, by definition, automatic rifles. BUT, there are tons of semi-automatic AK rifle variants. Automatic AK rifles can also be converted to semi-automatic rifles. Yes, the AK-47 variant (among others) fires a 7.62x39mm cartridge. The paragraph you quote states that automatic rifles firing anything larger than 7.62 is unauthorized. Automatic or semi-automatic AK rifles in 7.62x39 are legal to possess. 7.62 is the diameter of the bullet. It equals .30 caliber.

Further, anything semi-automatic or bolt-fed from .31 caliber up through .50 BMG aren't covered by this, hence, they are legal to own by every law-abiding Iraqi. My .300 winmag, which fires a 190 grain, 7.62 mm (bullet) accurately at 1,000 yards, would be perfectly legal over there, just like the full-auto AK--just as long as you don't put it under your dress.

are we straight now?

edit: bullet for cartridgesowwy.

mike

Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Ok....the rules are different in Iraq. So what? It's a freakin' war zone for crying out loud. The contrast is invalid.

Got to love this

We ask: "If guns are mandatory to overthrow a possible future villainous leader, then why take them away from people we are presently trying to free from a villainous leader?"

You say: "Prove it!"

I prove it and you say: "Ok....the rules are different in Iraq. So what? It's a freakin' war zone for crying out loud. The contrast is invalid"

Thanks Philly, I wish you had of told me you didn't care either way... I wouldn't have bothered.

I responded 50 times....it's different circumstances. You're ignoring that aspect and making outlandish, unrealistic statements that have no logical backing. That's why I don't care.

[PhillyKev 0]

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I refuse to address this aspect of the conversation any longer because it makes me feel like I'm having a hallucinagenic flash back. It just doesn't make sense.

Do you remember how "this aspect of the conversation" started? I've just recapped it for you... It makes perfect sense. A question was asked of you but before you answered, you asked for proof... do you care to answer now or is it:

[covers ears] lalalalalalalalalal! [/covers ears]

I answered....it's different circumstances. It's not a free democratic society. It would be nice if it were, and when and if it is I would fully support their ability to own firearms. Until that happens, the point is moot. It's an area under marshal law. The rules are different. If you can't see that, there's no point in discussing it with you any further.

[Kramer 0]

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Moore is kind of like that in the sense that if the media didn't talk about gun-murders so much, it wouldn't be as big of an occurance.

So, he's a hypocrite? Considering his media based documentary also seems to try to imply that gun murders are commonplace.

I'll conceed that one...you're probably right. The more something is talked about, the more people remember it, and the more it's in people's head. Human nature...

-Kramer

The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!!

[PhillyKev 0]

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OMFG I can't believe it... you didn't read it AGAIN??! What I posted, was proof that they are NOT! Is the AK automoatic? What is the diameter of the round in the AK-47? anyone?... anyone? 7.62x39mm

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Unauthorized weapons are defined as: automatic firearms firing ammunition larger than 7.62mm;

???????????? Huh.....what you presented was proof that they are not banned in Iraq. I'll help out here

7.62 is NOT larger than 7.62

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Now,for the love of the ability to read, do not come back at me telling me Iraqiis are allowed to have these weapons when it is clear that they are not.

Or what? You'll respond with the infallible logic displayed thus far?

[skypuppy 1]

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Funny, I've spent 44 years within a couple of hours of Toronto and I can't remember not locking the door before going to bed ever...

Not everyone in the world is as lucky as you are to live in a crime-free area.

Don't judge the rest of the world based upon your own little microcosm.

Huh? I thought that's what I said...

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[skypuppy 1]

In fact, I'm not all about banning guns... we have guns here in Canada too.... We just don't shoot eachother nearly as much as you guys do.

__________________________________________________

Interestingly enough, in the last week or so we had a father shot watching his tv with his 9 year old son in his own home by a bullet which came through the wall of his house from a block away....

And a 15 year old climbed out of his shower moments before a bullet ripped through the side of the house and into the shower stall, again from down the street...

All this in country where handguns have been strictly registered and regulated since the 1930's...

Note to self - CRIMINALS DON'T CARE ABOUT GUN LAWS!!!

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[JohnRich 4]

"Bowling is fiction. It makes its points by deceiving and by misleading the viewer. Statements are made which are false. Moore leads the reader to draw inferences which he must have known were wrong. Indeed, even speeches shown on screen are heavily edited, so that sentences are assembled in the speaker's voice, but which were not sentences he uttered. Bowling uses deception as its primary tool of persuasion and effect."

Complete story:
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I can understand why people who don't like Michael Moore do not like this movie, but the fact remains that Americans kill Americans with guns at an astronomically high number than any other modern society. Why?

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[PhillyKev 0]

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I can understand why people who don't like Michael Moore do not like this movie, but the fact remains that Americans kill Americans with guns at an astronomically high number than any other modern society. Why?

Not sure...but, it's not because of legal gun ownership.