Is it a scam through Paypal?

[mr2mk1g 10]

Has anyone heard of a scam possible through paypal?

Full story:
Im selling a crappy JVC digital camera on e-bay. Start price £100 (and not really worth a lot more IMHO). I've made it clear its crappy and in need of repair in the add.

I get the following email:

Quote

Dear sir,
I'm interested to buy your camcorder.
Can you deliver it to my cousin in indonesia?
I will completed my payment through paypal.
Please reply me asap.
Regards,
Dons

So I'm like - sure I have no probs shipping to Indonesia if you complete through paypal. I'll have to let you know what it'll cost to ship it though.

Next I get:

Quote

Make it £250 GBP including postage by royal mail.If you ok,I will
completed my payment through paypal right away.So Please give me your
paypal payment request or paypal invoice to [email protected]
hope I can get the shipping confirmations after I had do my
payment.Because my cousin really need the stuff.My cousin dont want the
stuff arrived in indonesia is too late.I need your help here.
Please email me asap.

Sounds dodgy right? Sounds too good to be true right? If something sounds too good to be true it usually is right?

But this is through paypal - an escrow service... is it possible to get shafted there? If I draw down the ammount I see in my paypal account surely its mine there and then?

Or is this like the credit card scam where it appears in your bank on day 1 but by day 3 its bounced and its too late to get your item out of the post??

What do you reckon? A scam through paypal?

(edited to remove his adress just in case)

[EdC 0]

It sounds like a scam, they will probably want you to refund the 150 pounds and then it turns out to be a fraudulent credit card or it will bounce and you are out 150 pounds and the camera. Run, run away.

Big Ed

[lemonjelly 0]

Should be cool, bot you and the other party are protected.
The money must be physically transferred when using paypal so you should be cool.
I've had a few transactions with folk abroad and have had no probs
good luck

*************************************************
RED LIGHTS & OFF LANDINGS ARE JUST MY THANG
http://www.redlightrob.co.uk

[mr2mk1g 10]

Thats just my point though - isnt the whole point of Paypal that it doesnt matter if his card is bogus - thats Paypal's problem. I get my money anyway.

If it is possible to scam someone through paypal like that doesnt that have wider implications for paypal itself and my future confidence in the system? Whats to stop me getting shafted in a future deal through paypal which doesnt sound at all fraudulent?

And I wouldn't refund anything - it'd be a legally binding contract and I'd stick to it - he'd have to sue me for it and he'd suddenly find he'd bitten off more than he could chew on then.

[PhillyKev 0]

Hmmm.....don't see how it could be a scam. Unless he was saying he wanted a shipping confirmation immediately after making the payment, as in it's already been shipped, but his English sucks too bad to get that across.

Take one for the team and do the deal so we can find out what the new scam is.

[Slappie 9]

I sell virtual property (Everquest items) thru an online auction house like eBay. I conduct almost all my business thru paypal, it's can be really risky when your selling virtual property. There is nothing tangent you can lay your hands on. I have heard of Paypal scams before. They pay, you ship, then they cancel the payment thru the credit card company. Paypal then sends you a bill for the amount you've drawn from the system. Personaly I've never had the problem. I sell to many different countries too. Malaysia, Indonesia, UK, Germany and most of Europe. But like I said I've not got a tangent item. All my property is virtual items, like rare swords, armor etc.. whatever you can find in a game like Everquest. So the logistics of shipping is only logging in the game and making an exchange of items.

I would verify the funds are available, draw the cash into my acct. Then secure the shipping. Remember shipping into another country there are duties and taxes to be paid. Also check and make sure "used" is allowed to be shipped into the country. If your not paying shipping then I suggest using DHL and ship it "Collect DDU" collect will be the shipping charges and DDU stand for Deliver Duty Unpaid. This forces your customer to have to pay shipping and all the duty + taxes due before delivery is made. You can do this at most of your DHL Customer Service locations or your Mail Box etc locations. You can also go thru FedEx or UPS. From my experience going overseas to East Asia, DHL is the pretty reliable.

I'm an International shipper tis what I do for a living... so I hope my comments helped ya decide.

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them."

[mr2mk1g 10]

Thanks - It seems you can get shafted through paypal then where the buyer has a stolen card. I read through paypals customer agreement and they will claw back money from you they can't get it out of the card holder paying.

As you are a regular seller you should upgrade to their premium or seller account then they will covered aginst that sort of fraud. Read up on it with them. As I only sell a few items its not worth it for me.

As fraud is physically possible Im gonna run for the hills on this one. There are simply too many Red Flaggs in the guys e-mail to make it worth the risk.

His need for speed on a camera that needs repair before it will work is one of the biggest concerns. This fraud requires me to send the camera before the 3-5 working days that paypal will take to tell me about the problem.

And damnit I knew I shouldnt put that monkey option in.

[cvfd1399 0]

Make the transaction first. Get your money in hand BEFORE you send the camera. Once you got your money send the stuff. Screw him if he can't wait.

[taln1rigr 0]

If it were me I'd present the email & question right to PayPal & ask them if there's anyway possible that this guy could pull a fast one on you since it seems to good to be true.
The PayPal Customer Service Dept will know better than anyone if there's a way to cheat the system as well as be able to offer you some precationary steps.

Not as a seller, but as a buyer, I encountered a bad deal. I had a false sense of security concerning ebay & paypal. I found out real fast that ebay does not involve themselves at all in disputes & PayPal can was a little better but not by much.
This probably won't help in your situation but for the refrence of anyone else who encounters a problem here's some agencies that actually helped:
Internet Fraud Complaint Center - this one is a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C).
National Fraud Information Center - this one contacts the police depts of the involved parties

[ChileRelleno 0]

If it smells fishy, it just may be fish... You don't want fish, you want money.

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[lummy 4]

IIRC PAypal doesn't cover fraud from other countries, only transactions in the US. you might want to look into that as well

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[dustin19d 0]

Dont see how anyone could scam u. All bank accounts, and credit cards used through pay pal must be verified, and the only way to verify one is to be the account holder or know someones personal info. Also when someone sends $ trough pay pal, they usualy have the amount already in there pay pal acount, and if they use a credit card or bank account pay pal makes sure there is suficient funds before completing the transaction. So if u get paid the moneys yours, If the buyer cant pay, then he cant pay. Dont see how u could get scamed.

[Vertifly 0]

Indonesia is infamous for credit card scams. BE CAREFUL ON THIS ONE!!!!!

[stuffit 0]

Look at alot of the sellers. A bunch of them will say that they wont ship to Indonesia. There has to be some reason. Find one and send them an email.

[WFFC 1]

Quote

All bank accounts, and credit cards used through pay pal must be verified...

Bank accounts yes, credit cards no. You can verify your shipping address in paypal, but it's not a requirement.

[vid666 0]

I would definately stay away. Indonesia is infamous with credit card fraud. I sell on ebay under "12zpc" and we get a lot of requests for running credit cards and making transactions outside ebay. It's never a problem, but here's what we require :

CC - only from US customers, and shipping ONLY to the billing address or to the "alternate shipto" address - we call in and verify if the auto system doesn't. No international credit cards. period.

with paypal you are covered with their insurance only if the buyer is in US, is verified ( bank account on file ) and confirmed address ( credit card on file ). You also have to ship via a trackable method and provide a tracking # if asked.

So the indonesian buyer is most likely a scam, especially considering that Paypal is not offered in that country :)

paul

[GravityGirl 0]

DO NOT SELL TO INDONESIA! PERIOD. They have a huge internet bandit ring. I get tons of bogus orders from all over indonesia. Fortunately, I process all of my internet orders by hand, so if something looks odd. I call. I have over 40 bogus orders. I have alerted tons of card holders.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[GravityGirl 0]

Quote

Make the transaction first. Get your money in hand BEFORE you send the camera. Once you got your money send the stuff. Screw him if he can't wait.

Charge Backs take a while to process. Sometimes up to three months. But they WILL come back for their money.

RUN!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

I was checking my account tonight and thought that I would pass this page on to you, which was on the Paypal website after my log in.

Protect Your PayPal Account
Recently, PayPal members have reported suspicious-looking emails and fake websites. These fraudulent emails may address you with the salutation "Dear PayPal User" or "Dear PayPal Member." These emails are not from PayPal. PayPal will only address you by your first and last name, or the business name associated with the account.
Use the following tips to protect your PayPal account:

1. Safely access the PayPal website or your PayPal account by opening up a new web browser (Internet Explorer or Netscape) and type in the following: https://www.paypal.com/
2. Never give out the following information in an email:
* First name, last name, business name
* Email and password combination
* Credit card, bank account, and PIN number
* Social security and driver's license number


3. Do not download attachments, software updates, or any application to your computer via a link you received in an email. PayPal will not ask you to download anything for your account to work.
4. Choose a unique password and change it every 30-60 days.
If you think you have received a fraudulent email, please forward the entire email to [email protected] and then delete it.