I hate seeing this crap, we all know the risk.

mjosparky · January 7, 2004

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Would you expect your reserve to work if you were overloading it and doing 160 mph+?

No, I wouldn't. But if I was withing the operating limitations and simply deployed it and it came apart and the manufacturer released a SB to fix what broke on the reserve, yes, I would sue.

Derek

I know one of the people involved in the two failures and he was over weight and over speed.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

CornishChris · January 7, 2004

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This was NOT a jury of our peers.

In the same way a rapist is not tried by a jury of rapists?!

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

KrisFlyZ · January 7, 2004

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This _may_ not be the fist case of a reserve from this mfg faling.

Don't they also sell the Escape Chute??

Escape Chute

Read this article Gear Article

The following is a quote from that article.

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According to Cliff Schmucker, president of the Parachute Industry Association, “there’s obviously people out here trying to make a quick buck in a bad situation….At least one person was looking into congressional relief for the liability issue.”. This would be disastrous, as it would remove accountability for improperly designed, tested and marketed products.

bobobiggalo · January 7, 2004

Anybody wanna buy a parachute? Got one for sale!
never been used and only repaired once.

Watch out where the huskies go,and don't you eat that yellow snow!~ZAPPA

TitaniumLegs · January 7, 2004

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This _may_ not be the fist case of a reserve from this mfg faling.

It's not. I've seen two Ravens with blown cells. The jumpers landed them, but it could have been worse.

Then there's SB1221, and several ways to interpret and argue that one. On the one hand, it's very responsible for them to issue the SB. On the other, it's full of double talk. If there's no "defect", why is there a mandatory SB?

Raven is one of the two most popular reserves. Loads of documented saves. Even if Precision did make a mistake, it's obvious $50M is a bit much. It's probably more than they've made in total on all canopy sales ever!

You know there's a chance a reserve could fail. They're made out of the same stuff, using the same techniques, and packed pretty much the same as a main, just way more carefully.

Part of the problem is people are way too cavalier with main canopy packing, inspection and maintenance. It's almost as if they don't care if the main functions - they've got a reserve to count on! I look at a reserve ride almost the same way some people look at a CYPRES fire - something went wrong, and we need to find out what, and make sure it doesn't happen again.

edit: spelling

(>o|-<

If you don't believe me, ask me.

TitaniumLegs · January 7, 2004

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I agree. This is just plain silly. People can and do get hurt jumping out of airplanes. If you think differently, you don't need to be jumping. Reminds me of the McDonald's/spilled coffee lawsuit. COFFEE IS HOT!!! be careful and use common sense if there is such a thing anymore.

Actually, that coffee wasn't just hot, it was almost boiling. That elderly lady required several surgeries for skin-grafts and had serious toxemia infections as well.

There are at least three sides to every story - yours, mine and the truth somewhere in between.

(>o|-<

If you don't believe me, ask me.

aero04 · January 7, 2004

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Basically my understanding is GP made a canopy the Nova that collapsed low and injured a few jumpers and killed a few others. GP reorganized, changed the name of their canopies, recertified the reserves, changed a few people internally and came back as Flight Concepts.

This is'nt the first time that a Parachute maker left the civilian market, Paraflight is only making military equipment anymore where years ago they used to make parachutes for civilians also.

Thanks Phree. I have to deal with FC concerning my canopy and it is nice to know a bit of the background.

Unstable · January 7, 2004

It's shit like this that is making skydiving more and more prohibitive to the public over time.....

=========Shaun ==========

KrisFlyZ · January 7, 2004

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Raven is one of the two most popular reserves. Loads of documented saves. Even if Precision did make a mistake, it's obvious $50M is a bit much. It's probably more than they've made in total on all canopy sales ever!

Agreed $50M is way way too much.

I can see a jury that sees one side present a case and another side not even care to present a defense, wanting to award putative damages generously.

billvon · January 7, 2004

> This shit is last resort... it should be tested, retested, retested...
> then tested another 100 times in diff condtions... until they are
> 110% confident it will indeed save a skydivers life, they shouldn't
> sell it as a reserve canopy.

No reserve canopy, or harness/container system, made today can be safely deployed by someone in a head-down. We are intentionally using the equipment beyond its specifications. Failures will occur.

> I'm sure cypres would be sued if a skydiver screwed himself into the
> ground in headdown with his cypres on.

As they are not US-based it is more difficult to prosecute a lawsuit against them (and collect the money.) Look for parachute companies to notice this advantage of not being US-based.

quade · January 7, 2004

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As they are not US-based it is more difficult to prosecute a lawsuit against them (and collect the money.) Look for parachute companies to notice this advantage of not being US-based.

Can you explain to me why some foriegn companies refuse to sell in the U.S.? That one always struck me as odd.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

ACMESkydiver · January 7, 2004

It hasn't been brought up on here yet that quite possibly this man had no other alternative but to press the lawsuit...why? I (was) a licensed insurance agent, so let me explain:

If you are injured, what's the first thing you have to do when you go to the doc/hospital? Fill out a form explaining exactly how and where you were injured. Now why is this? INSURANCE LIABILITY. If your medical insurance company can put any of the obligation on ANY other entity, they will....

Case in point...my skydiving 'injury'. I botched a landing and sprained/dislocated/really screwed up my thumb. X-rays were negative for a break, but it required a brace and Vicodin and physical therapy. Each doctor, clinic, and specialist I visited for this injury had an 'incident form' that I had to fill out. TECHNICALLY it was not a 'skydiving' accident...you see I just tripped while walking through a field...which happened to occur seconds after a landing...these incident report forms wanted to know where I was injured; if it was private party, who was the owner? If it was company owned, what company? If it was open land, was it government owned? Was it city owned? In other words: Whose liability insurance could MY medical insurance company go after for damages?? Was anyone else there? Did anyone else cause my injury in ANY way? Were there defects in the ground cover that I could have tripped on? Was a vehicle involved? Was I working? Was my employer involved? Etc, etc, etc...

Do you honestly think that Rubio's medical insurance company didn't ask how the hell this man broke 50 bones? Of course they did...come on... "You sue them or we will." And sometimes both...unfortunately, I have been involved in car accidents as a passenger and homeowner's mishaps, etc...and sometimes that's just the case...it doesn't mean that this man and his wife were looking to score a wad from the canopy
manufacturer and put them out of business. He is/was a skydiver; don't you think the things you're saying on here about hurting the industry may have occured to him once or twice throughout this thing?

It's not always your 'decision' to press a lawsuit. When insurance is involved (ESPECIALLY medical), it is often not something you can object to, unless you can foot the bill wholely on your own...which ER of this nature -I'm guessing- $100,000 plus...I don't know what all of you do for a living, but I'm not able to drop that kinda change.

Either way, if I recall Chile's orig post here, Rubio did not seek damages of this amount, guys...the jury awarded it in this ridiculous figure...

Ok, I'm done.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

arlo · January 7, 2004

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Would you expect your reserve to work if you were overloading it and doing 160 mph+?

No, I wouldn't. But if I was withing the operating limitations and simply deployed it and it came apart and the manufacturer released a SB to fix what broke on the reserve, yes, I would sue.

Derek

(general reply...not directed towards derek)

i'm with derek on this one. the reserve deployment was within tso limits and the reserve failed. a SB was released shortly after to fix a problem on the reserves (at the owners' expense, by the way).

this isn't like suing firestone because you fucked up and went drunk driving off a cliff. this is like suing firestone because all the faulty tires fucking blew out on your SUV while you were on a sunday drive thru the mountains and caused you to careen down the cliff.

i know and expect shit to happen in skydiving. but i also expect my gear to work at least up to the bare f-ing minimums of the TSOs that have been set forth. i will NOT knowingly jump substandard equipment...which would include a fucked up reserve.

arlo

ChileRelleno · January 7, 2004

No accidentaly about it, I was advised by the S&TA on the best LZ's in New Hampshire