Canopy refurb...

[skydiverkeith 1]

I've sent PD an email, but was wondering if anyone here has any insights. Can you re-ZP coat a canopy that is starting to feel like F-111 and restore it to like new, or is the only option a new canopy?

Blue skies,
Keith Medlock

[theonlyski 3]

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I've sent PD an email, but was wondering if anyone here has any insights. Can you re-ZP coat a canopy that is starting to feel like F-111 and restore it to like new, or is the only option a new canopy?

IIRC the ZP of the canopy isnt from the coating, its the actual fabric. You cannot just spray more on.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[riggerrob 558]

Most ZP fabrics use silicone to seal the pores and reduce prrosity to zero. This coating is done long before the fabric is cut into ribs and top skins, etc.

Re-coating a canopy would produce un-even coating near seams, which would ither leave seams porous (the only place air can escape from new canopies) or far too bulky to fit into their original containers.

Every decade or so, someone invents a coating process to solve your dilemma. They usually advertise in SKYDIVING Magazine for a few months, then quietly disappear.

[Jbag 0]

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Every decade or so, someone invents a coating process to solve your dilemma. They usually advertise in SKYDIVING Magazine for a few months, then quietly disappear.

How old are you!!!!!! =D

IHYD

[riggerrob 558]

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Every decade or so, someone invents a coating process to solve your dilemma. They usually advertise in SKYDIVING Magazine for a few months, then quietly disappear.

How old are you!!!!!! =D

.......................................................................................

I am 53 years old.
I have been skydiving for 33 years and have been a rigger for the last 26 years.

Rob Warner
FAA Master Rigger
Canadian Rigger Examiner
Strong Tandem Examiner

[timmyfitz 0]

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IIRC the ZP of the canopy isnt from the coating, its the actual fabric.

I guess you did not IIRC.

[stayhigh 2]

if PD invents such product it be end of their company.
even if such product were exist, the formula will be in hands of John Lebranc guarded by hoard of PD factory swoopers.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[skydiverkeith 1]

Per PD...

"The fabric PD uses comes to us already coated. The coating is put on in such a manner that it is forced into the fibers and then run through rollers at very high heat to “cure” the coating. This is not something that can be done after market.



However, I have seen very few of our 0-Porosity canopies that no longer fly well due to the loss of the new crispiness. This loss of crispiness is usually viewed as a good thing because the canopy is then so much easier to pack. Typically the only area that needs any extra attention is the center top skin. This skin takes the most abuse during packing. The PCA area gets a lot of handling when setting the pilot chute kill line. From that point to the tail gets a lot of handling when pushing the air out during packing.



We have had canopies that we replaced that skin for these reasons and the canopy was nearly “reborn”. It is all a case by case basis though. We can certainly take a look at your canopy and determine what it needs."

Blue skies,
Keith Medlock

[theonlyski 3]

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IIRC the ZP of the canopy isnt from the coating, its the actual fabric.

I guess you did not IIRC.

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The fabric PD uses comes to us already coated. The coating is put on in such a manner that it is forced into the fibers and then run through rollers at very high heat to “cure” the coating. This is not something that can be done after market.

I guess I RC'ed good enough.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[JohnRich 4]

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Can you re-ZP coat a canopy that is starting to feel like F-111 and restore it to like new?

We used to have a tinkerer who found the military-specification for the zero-porosity coating, and reproduced it in his workshop. A number of people were taking their ragged-out canopies to him to have them re-coated, to extend their life and restore performance and soft landings. I think the canopy was hung up and the coating was applied with a paint spray gun.

Subsequently, and shortly after putting those canopies back in service, they blew apart on opening. The old, weak fabric could no longer handle the opening shock of a zero-P deployment.

So instead of restoring a canopy for a couple of hundred bucks, it ended up a waste of money and a reserve ride.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I've sent PD an email, but was wondering if anyone here has any insights. Can you re-ZP coat a canopy that is starting to feel like F-111 and restore it to like new, or is the only option a new canopy?

Have you tried to blow air through it?

ZP remains ZP long after it's lost all the slickness on the surface. Air comes out easier during packing because the stitching holes have opened up but it doesn't make a difference in the air (obviously you also need the line set to be in trim for the canopy to fly like new).

[AggieDave 6]

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Can you re-ZP coat a canopy that is starting to feel like F-111 and restore it to like new?

We used to have a tinkerer who found the military-specification for the zero-porosity coating, and reproduced it in his workshop. A number of people were taking their ragged-out canopies to him to have them re-coated, to extend their life and restore performance and soft landings. I think the canopy was hung up and the coating was applied with a paint spray gun.

Subsequently, and shortly after putting those canopies back in service, they blew apart on opening. The old, weak fabric could no longer handle the opening shock of a zero-P deployment.

So instead of restoring a canopy for a couple of hundred bucks, it ended up a waste of money and a reserve ride.

"Leonardizing" the canopy?

There was an AOT rigger that was Leonardizing canopies with a spray on coating (his name is Leonard, surprisingly enough). Same sort of results, but people were complaining of harder openings.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[JohnRich 4]

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"Leonardizing" the canopy?

There was an AOT rigger that was Leonardizing canopies with a spray on coating (his name is Leonard, surprisingly enough). Same sort of results, but people were complaining of harder openings.

Yes, Dave, that's who I was referring to.

[Calvin19 0]

Spray paint works.

-SPACE-

[skydiverkeith 1]

So, at what point is an old canopy TOO old? Or do you just wait for a cell to blow out...

Blue skies,
Keith Medlock

[davelepka 4]

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So, at what point is an old canopy TOO old? Or do you just wait for a cell to blow out...

That's pretty much it. Long before the fabric is toast, the lines will either start snapping, or be so far out of trim that the openings and flare will begin to suffer (and in turn the jumper begins to suffer). At that point you'll need a reline, and if the fabric passes the inspection that goes along with the reline, you're good to go.

I jump in Ohio where it's grassy and dust free, and I've only seen one canopy that was jumped to the point of canopy failure. Now I've seen many that blew up from repeated hard openings, but the one I'm talking about was a Stiletto that always opened soft, and was jumped for a decade (or more). The fabric was noticeably thin and very tissure paper-like for the last few years it was alive, but it was still going stong up unitl the last jump, at which point it was just over.

[pchapman 262]

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So, at what point is an old canopy TOO old? Or do you just wait for a cell to blow out...

I've seen it done to do a pull test on the main, like on the reserve, in particular on that center aft top skin that takes a beating. But the impression I got was to test it only to 20 lbs, to find a nice balance in this situation.

(I did rip an old Stiletto doing a 30 lb test as requested. That got a bit awkward as it was someone's pre-purchase inspection.)

It's up to the owner to decide whether to wait for a cell to blow out or not, much like the situation when dealing with relining a canopy.

[SansSuit 1]

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A number of people were taking their ragged-out canopies to him to have them re-coated, to extend their life and restore performance and soft landings.

I sent a Cruiselite 220 to Leonard for the "treatment". It gave new life to the ragged-out POS. However ...

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Subsequently, and shortly after putting those canopies back in service, they blew apart on opening.

In my case a hard opening broke a couple suspension lines. I had the canopy relined and it was great until I could afford a new canopy.

Peace,
-Dawson.
http://www.SansSuit.com
The Society for the Advancement of Naked Skydiving

[lekstrom10k 0]

I do recall in the early 80's some people would spray their top and bottom skins with tent waterproofing. I never heard of a bad incident doing it. I keep my gear in my trunk and wonder if it gets hot enough to get it gooey again.

[timmyfitz 0]

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IIRC the ZP of the canopy isnt from the coating, its the actual fabric.

I guess you did not IIRC.

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The fabric PD uses comes to us already coated. The coating is put on in such a manner that it is forced into the fibers and then run through rollers at very high heat to “cure” the coating. This is not something that can be done after market.

I guess I RC'ed good enough.

I guess not.

[masterrig 1]

When ZP first came-out, one of our jumpers, a guy who is always thinking of ways to save money while being 'inventive', decided he could make his F-111 canopy like ZP by spraying the top and bottom skin with 'tent sealer'! end result... it didn't work!


Chuck

[RIGGER160 0]

Robert you should stick with computers...