lawrocket 3 #201 March 15, 2004 QuoteIf they had actually been trained in tactical defense or even if they've ever actually shot a weapon, they'd understand how ludicris some of their answers have been! True, Dave. I don't own a weapon. At least not yet. Now I've got a pregnant wife to protect, and a shotgun may be one of my next purchases. I've trained in tactical circumstances. Hell, I've been a trainer in tactical circumstances. Many of the gin control crowd I know are of the opinion that people are gung ho with firearms. Some are. Most are not. How many think Homer Simpson shooting out the lights or shooting a hole in his beer can to drink it is an accurate reflection of the gun wielding public? I support gun ownership rights "full bore." Maybe I'll support them more when I actually purchase a firearm. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #202 March 15, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote...I'd shoot him somewhere that I know he wouldn't get up, but would still be alive.Quote Where exactly would that be? I'll give you a clue. You piss with it. And after that, either a kneecap or hold the gun to his head. Jason - I think you watch too much TV or you are better than almost every marksman in the world. Put yourself in a VERYU stressful situation and see where you talent is. Set that EXACT scenario up at a gun range in the dark - or with your eyes ajusting to the light and let someone shoot at you with paint balls - I give 50 to 1 that you will hit him in the (area) once - Maybe twice out of 10. 5 out of ten will be in center mass - the rest will miss completely. Then add the stress of a"Real" situation and the stats go down from there. Also a very good point, shell thief. (You getting tired of this game yet? ) Seriously though, you have a good point, and honestly, whether I would do that in a real life situation or not, I doubt it. The only reason I said that is this, imagine someone hurting your loved ones, what would you think of doing to them? What you would think of doing and what you would actually do are most likely two totally different things. I didn't know how I would react realistically if that pressure and stress of the situation were forced on me, because I can't know unless I were in the situation, so I posted the first thing I thought, which is what I would like done to anyone who harmed someone I love dearly. Thought and reality are two different things, as well as rational thought sitting here and attempting to think rationally in the situation. I feel that the actual outcome would be unpredictable. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Vallerina 2 #203 March 15, 2004 No. I wouldn't shoot somebody robbing my house and not just because I don't own a gun (although, my dad has a gun at our house, but I would probably just hurt myself trying to use it.) What if it was a 13 year old homeless kid robbing your place? Sure, what they're doing is wrong, but people are put in difficult and desperate situations. If they tried to come after me, that's a different story.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DJL 232 #204 March 15, 2004 QuotePossesions are important, and I dedicate a large part of my life acquiring them. If someone wants to take that away from me, I will have no hesitation using deadly force. So if your wife destroyed you skydive gear you'd kill her?"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,463 #205 March 15, 2004 OK, I already deleted a bunch of posts from this thread that were personal attacks; the next one gets it locked or deleted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DJL 232 #206 March 15, 2004 QuoteWhere I live (TX), it is 100% for you to shoot that perp dead for being in your house. What if you found out later that your caveman attitude resulted in you killing Santa Claus? Ok, maybe not Santa, you'd probably figure that out, but some happenstance of a friend sneaking in to surprise you. I do it all the time with friends of mine. All except for one when his Dad is visiting. He keeps a loaded 45 pointed at the door. He screwed the plans of a few nasty people who are still at large."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DJL 232 #207 March 15, 2004 Why a shotgun? I'd think a mid-caliber pistol would be best for laying down repeated rounds and getting around corners."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,166 #208 March 15, 2004 QuotePossesions are important, and I dedicate a large part of my life acquiring them. If someone wants to take that away from me, I will have no hesitation using deadly force. Oh dear. It's only stuff. Really. Stuff. What possession is important enough to shoot someone over -- your car? Your rig? Jewelry? Your nice leather jacket? The sofa? A TV? It's stuff. QuoteIt is also a big deterrent ot criminals to know that the dude you are going to rob is probably armed and would not hesitate to shoot you. Your average burglar is not going to try to steal stuff when he knows you're there. A home invader doesn't really care, and is likely to be armed. A reasonably intelligent burglar whom you interrupt is unlikely to be armed, because the sentence for being caught with a deadly weapon is stiffer than when you don't have one. That said, well, I like Wildcard451's approach. I'd call the cops, and then be noisy to get him out of my house. If someone were to come at me, or threaten someone sleeping in the house and I had a gun, it'd most likely be a shotgun with no choke. It's really easy to point one of those and hit enough to get someone's attention. You might kill them, you might not, depending on distance. But you'll get their undivided attention. Note, I'm not saying that I do or don't have a gun; frankly, I've heard entirely too many people who let guns change their viewpoint. I have a friend who said he was glad he'd gotten his CCW; he'd been in 3 situations in the 2 years since getting it where it had been helpful. In the previous 46, there had been none that had required it. Some people seem to treat guns like a new hammer -- every problem begins to look like a nail. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #209 March 15, 2004 QuoteQuotePossesions are important, and I dedicate a large part of my life acquiring them. If someone wants to take that away from me, I will have no hesitation using deadly force. So if your wife destroyed you skydive gear you'd kill her? Yes.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites lawrocket 3 #210 March 15, 2004 QuoteWhy a shotgun? I'd think a mid-caliber pistol would be best for laying down repeated rounds and getting around corners. 1. Pistols miss. Shotguns don't at home defense range. 2. Shotguns have that distinctive sound that will scare away a perp. Pistols don't. 3. Mid caliber pistol rounds can still go through bad guy and through a wall and lodge in your neighbor. Shotgun shot doesn't do that. 4. Pistol rounds leave a guy typically able to do damage for a few seconds, unless a realy well placed shot is made. Shotguns disable instantly. Shotguns are ideal for home defense. Especially sawed off ones. Too bad you can't saw them off. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #211 March 15, 2004 You can - It just has parameters that you have to meet.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wildblue 4 #212 March 15, 2004 QuoteOh dear. It's only stuff. Really. Stuff. What possession is important enough to shoot someone over -- your car? Your rig? Jewelry? Your nice leather jacket? The sofa? A TV? You said it a little less crass than I did! it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites winsor 187 #213 March 15, 2004 QuoteWhy a shotgun? I'd think a mid-caliber pistol would be best for laying down repeated rounds and getting around corners. One of the advantages of an appropriate shotgun is that it is range-limited. With target loads (1 1/8 oz. of 7 1/2 shot in a 12 gauge), someone standing 350 yds away is perfectly safe - the shot won't go that far. Another advantage of a scattergun is its tendency to disperse after contact with a solid object. Contrary to popular myth, a shotgun is a point (as opposed to area) weapon at across-the-room ranges. Even with a cylinder bore (no choke), you are going to have a pattern not much bigger than the barrel itself. Since a 12 gauge target load has about twice the muzzle energy as the vaunted .44 Remington Magnum out of an 8 3/8" Model 29 Smith & Wesson, it is marvelously effective in social situations. Once the aforementioned load hits even one layer of drywall/plasterboard, it disperses such that you no longer have a bolus of lead moving at 1,250 fps, but individual pellets at greatly reduced velocity. If someone is any distance from the wall, you may put their eye out but you won't kill them. Buckshot is a bad idea. It can kill someone in the next room after penetrating a wall. As an aside, the peak pressures in a shotgun tend to hover around 10,000 psi, and most of the energy is expended in the first 5" of travel. In a Magnum pistol cartridge, the pressures are on the order of 40,000 psi and the pressures are near-peak when the bullet exits the muzzle. Though you may have more powder in a shotgun shell than a pistol cartridge (I put significantly more powder in my normal .44 Mag. loads than my 12 gauge loads) the muzzle blast is not as fierce. If you have ever fired a full-patch cartridge in a closed space without ear protection, you will appreciate the difference. One last advantage of a shotgun over a pistol is that it's tougher to wave around. Your average civilian holding a pistol will have it pointed all over the place, and even a 20" barrelled pistol-gripped Model 870 Remington or equivalent is easier to keep pointed in an intentional direction. In any event, training and practice are key to safely and effectively using any firearm. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it, since when you need it you need it badly. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maxmadmax 8 #214 March 15, 2004 I am all for gun control............ Hitting what you aim at!!!!! especially slime ball thiefs......etc. Don't go away mad....just go away! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crapflinger2000 1 #215 March 15, 2004 None of the options suit me... Yes, if my life or the lives of family were in danger. I will not kill someone over "stuff". I have a gun, announce to the house that I am armed and they better get the hell out while I wait "holed-up" somewhere... I will wait and call the cops... If they barge into the room... bang bang bang... __________________________________________________ What would Vic Mackey do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #216 March 15, 2004 QuoteI will not kill someone over "stuff" My only statement here is no one 'knows' if it's 'over stuff' or what the intent of the intruder is or if they have a weapon or not despite the penalties for packing during a break in. You have a good answer, be 'ready' to shoot'. (But you've lost an edge with announcing yourself if they are armed and ready to shoot). Do you have kids? Do want to take the chance that they are armed and you just let them know you're awake and ready to fight? Wendy - When I pound nails, I definitely take out the bullets first. Cause one time I..... nevermind ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mujie96 0 #217 March 15, 2004 If someone's robbing my house they're so totally whacked out on drugs they don't realize there's nothing to steal. Hell yes I'd shoot him/her/it, they're dangerously insane and criminally stupid. Edit: Wait a sec, I've got a kick ass renter's insurance policy and no gun. Maybe I'd shoot him with a rubber band gun. Just keep swimming...just keep swimming.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kennedy 0 #218 March 15, 2004 QuoteSC Home Invasion laws, new just this last year, make possible the fact that if a person/persons enters your domicile, unwanted, unannounced and unwelcome, we have the right to use deadly force, no matter what the other circumstances. I was having trouble finding links directly to a law like that, and I couldn't find it in the online listings. http://www.scstatehouse.net/code/statmast.htm Do you know what the law is called or have a link to the text? I'm interested in reading it. I did however find a press release from the SC Atty General's office to that effect dated January 2003, declaring "open season." QuoteI, for one, will protect my loved ones, home and property, in any way I see fit, creating the most amount of damage in the least amount of time as possible. I hope that came out meaning something other than what you meant. Did you really mean you want to create as much damage as possible? Do you want to kill them no matter what, or just use any forc encessary to stop them? (knowing that they may die as a result of your force)witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Douva 0 #219 March 15, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuote...I'd shoot him somewhere that I know he wouldn't get up, but would still be alive.Quote Where exactly would that be? I'll give you a clue. You piss with it. And after that, either a kneecap or hold the gun to his head. How many hours a week do you spend on the gun range? Please break that down into hours spent on accuracy training and hours spent in high stress simulated scenarios. A knee cap is about the size of a tennis ball. If you don't shoot all the time, you're not going to hit a target that size, with a pistol, under high stress, from more than about five feet away. Even then you may give the perp time to fire his own weapon. How many hours a week do you spend on the gun range? Please break that down into hours spent on accuracy training and hours spent in high stress simulated scenarios. A knee cap is about the size of a tennis ball. If you don't shoot all the time, you're not going to hit a target that size, with a pistol, under high stress, from more than about five feet away. Even then you may give the perp time to fire his own weapon. If you shoot an intruder in the genitals, you'd better get both a criminal lawyer and a civil litigation attorney because your ass is headed up a creek. That judge is going to hear all about how you obviously didn't fear for your life because you took the time to aim for a relatively small (refrain from laughing, children) area of the body with the direct intent of causing extreme pain and irreparable harm to the victim (yes, now HE is the victim). Intentionally shooting to wound is illegal in many states. There is a reason for that. If you have the time and awareness to shoot to wound, you don't really need to shoot at all.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Douva 0 #220 March 15, 2004 QuoteI didn't know how I would react realistically if that pressure and stress of the situation were forced on me, because I can't know unless I were in the situation, so I posted the first thing I thought, which is what I would like done to anyone who harmed someone I love dearly. Thought and reality are two different things, as well as rational thought sitting here and attempting to think rationally in the situation. I feel that the actual outcome would be unpredictable. What you would do in that type of situation is a good thing to think about. You need to have a plan of action burned into your brain. Circumstances may dictate that you change your plan, but you don't want to have to create a plan on the spot--That's when you end up making a serious mistake like shooting someone in the crotch because you couldn't think what else to do.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #221 March 15, 2004 Apparently you didn't read my above post. I'll copy and paste it for ya. WrongWay to TS (the texan shell stealer) "Seriously though, you have a good point, and honestly, whether I would do that in a real life situation or not, I doubt it. The only reason I said that is this, imagine someone hurting your loved ones, what would you think of doing to them? What you would think of doing and what you would actually do are most likely two totally different things. I didn't know how I would react realistically if that pressure and stress of the situation were forced on me, because I can't know unless I were in the situation, so I posted the first thing I thought, which is what I would like done to anyone who harmed someone I love dearly. Thought and reality are two different things, as well as rational thought sitting here and attempting to think rationally in the situation. I feel that the actual outcome would be unpredictable. " And there you have it. This has been a WrongWay production. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Douva 0 #222 March 15, 2004 QuoteApparently you didn't read my above post. I'll copy and paste it for ya. WrongWay to TS (the texan shell stealer) "Seriously though, you have a good point, and honestly, whether I would do that in a real life situation or not, I doubt it. The only reason I said that is this, imagine someone hurting your loved ones, what would you think of doing to them? What you would think of doing and what you would actually do are most likely two totally different things. I didn't know how I would react realistically if that pressure and stress of the situation were forced on me, because I can't know unless I were in the situation, so I posted the first thing I thought, which is what I would like done to anyone who harmed someone I love dearly. Thought and reality are two different things, as well as rational thought sitting here and attempting to think rationally in the situation. I feel that the actual outcome would be unpredictable. " And there you have it. This has been a WrongWay production. Ah, see, now you didn't read my above (directly above) post. We're both playing catch-up.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #223 March 15, 2004 QuoteQuoteI didn't know how I would react realistically if that pressure and stress of the situation were forced on me, because I can't know unless I were in the situation, so I posted the first thing I thought, which is what I would like done to anyone who harmed someone I love dearly. Thought and reality are two different things, as well as rational thought sitting here and attempting to think rationally in the situation. I feel that the actual outcome would be unpredictable. What you would do in that type of situation is a good thing to think about. You need to have a plan of action burned into your brain. Circumstances may dictate that you change your plan, but you don't want to have to create a plan on the spot--That's when you end up making a serious mistake like shooting someone in the crotch because you couldn't think what else to do. As of now, my serious plan would be having no quick access to a gun. Better to plan for more by planning to have less than be unprepared for a worse situation. I've had a bit of training in martial arts/disarming attackers, and that'd be the first thing I'd do, followed by doing all I could to safely detain the person or disable them from causing any harm to myself or someone else, then call the proper authorities. Honestly, I'm not a violent person, but if worse comes to worse and its my life or his, I'm going to see tomorrow. Whether he does or not is going to become his own problem. If there was a gun involved, I'd shoot him if he came at me or one of my family members, but first I'd try to hold him at gunpoint for as long as possible. I'd only do the above mentioned if it were a very, very severe case. But hey, it was the first thing that came to mind if a family member was hurt. Then again, what do I know, I'm just a young punk anyway. Edited to add: Yeah we were definitely playing a game of catch up. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Faber 0 #224 March 15, 2004 QuoteEdit: Wait a sec, I've got a kick ass renter's insurance policy and no gun. Maybe I'd shoot him with a rubber band gun. ha ha i like that one Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Girlfalldown 0 #225 March 15, 2004 I killed a mouse once. Had to. He was stuck on that sticky paper and he was dying anyway. I felt so bad for him. After I killed him I felt absolutely shitty. Killing sucks. I couldn't kill a person unless, like you said, they were harming someone I loved. If all they were doing was robbing me maybe I'd shoot em in the leg or something, I don't really know. Shooting some one that's robbing you TO KILL just seems harsh and I think losing some belongings would be better (for me) then the turmoil I'd be in for taking a human life. -------------- (Do not, I repeat DO NOT, take my posts seriously.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Next Page 9 of 11 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Vallerina 2 #203 March 15, 2004 No. I wouldn't shoot somebody robbing my house and not just because I don't own a gun (although, my dad has a gun at our house, but I would probably just hurt myself trying to use it.) What if it was a 13 year old homeless kid robbing your place? Sure, what they're doing is wrong, but people are put in difficult and desperate situations. If they tried to come after me, that's a different story.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #204 March 15, 2004 QuotePossesions are important, and I dedicate a large part of my life acquiring them. If someone wants to take that away from me, I will have no hesitation using deadly force. So if your wife destroyed you skydive gear you'd kill her?"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,463 #205 March 15, 2004 OK, I already deleted a bunch of posts from this thread that were personal attacks; the next one gets it locked or deleted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #206 March 15, 2004 QuoteWhere I live (TX), it is 100% for you to shoot that perp dead for being in your house. What if you found out later that your caveman attitude resulted in you killing Santa Claus? Ok, maybe not Santa, you'd probably figure that out, but some happenstance of a friend sneaking in to surprise you. I do it all the time with friends of mine. All except for one when his Dad is visiting. He keeps a loaded 45 pointed at the door. He screwed the plans of a few nasty people who are still at large."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #207 March 15, 2004 Why a shotgun? I'd think a mid-caliber pistol would be best for laying down repeated rounds and getting around corners."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,166 #208 March 15, 2004 QuotePossesions are important, and I dedicate a large part of my life acquiring them. If someone wants to take that away from me, I will have no hesitation using deadly force. Oh dear. It's only stuff. Really. Stuff. What possession is important enough to shoot someone over -- your car? Your rig? Jewelry? Your nice leather jacket? The sofa? A TV? It's stuff. QuoteIt is also a big deterrent ot criminals to know that the dude you are going to rob is probably armed and would not hesitate to shoot you. Your average burglar is not going to try to steal stuff when he knows you're there. A home invader doesn't really care, and is likely to be armed. A reasonably intelligent burglar whom you interrupt is unlikely to be armed, because the sentence for being caught with a deadly weapon is stiffer than when you don't have one. That said, well, I like Wildcard451's approach. I'd call the cops, and then be noisy to get him out of my house. If someone were to come at me, or threaten someone sleeping in the house and I had a gun, it'd most likely be a shotgun with no choke. It's really easy to point one of those and hit enough to get someone's attention. You might kill them, you might not, depending on distance. But you'll get their undivided attention. Note, I'm not saying that I do or don't have a gun; frankly, I've heard entirely too many people who let guns change their viewpoint. I have a friend who said he was glad he'd gotten his CCW; he'd been in 3 situations in the 2 years since getting it where it had been helpful. In the previous 46, there had been none that had required it. Some people seem to treat guns like a new hammer -- every problem begins to look like a nail. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #209 March 15, 2004 QuoteQuotePossesions are important, and I dedicate a large part of my life acquiring them. If someone wants to take that away from me, I will have no hesitation using deadly force. So if your wife destroyed you skydive gear you'd kill her? Yes.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #210 March 15, 2004 QuoteWhy a shotgun? I'd think a mid-caliber pistol would be best for laying down repeated rounds and getting around corners. 1. Pistols miss. Shotguns don't at home defense range. 2. Shotguns have that distinctive sound that will scare away a perp. Pistols don't. 3. Mid caliber pistol rounds can still go through bad guy and through a wall and lodge in your neighbor. Shotgun shot doesn't do that. 4. Pistol rounds leave a guy typically able to do damage for a few seconds, unless a realy well placed shot is made. Shotguns disable instantly. Shotguns are ideal for home defense. Especially sawed off ones. Too bad you can't saw them off. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #211 March 15, 2004 You can - It just has parameters that you have to meet.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 4 #212 March 15, 2004 QuoteOh dear. It's only stuff. Really. Stuff. What possession is important enough to shoot someone over -- your car? Your rig? Jewelry? Your nice leather jacket? The sofa? A TV? You said it a little less crass than I did! it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 187 #213 March 15, 2004 QuoteWhy a shotgun? I'd think a mid-caliber pistol would be best for laying down repeated rounds and getting around corners. One of the advantages of an appropriate shotgun is that it is range-limited. With target loads (1 1/8 oz. of 7 1/2 shot in a 12 gauge), someone standing 350 yds away is perfectly safe - the shot won't go that far. Another advantage of a scattergun is its tendency to disperse after contact with a solid object. Contrary to popular myth, a shotgun is a point (as opposed to area) weapon at across-the-room ranges. Even with a cylinder bore (no choke), you are going to have a pattern not much bigger than the barrel itself. Since a 12 gauge target load has about twice the muzzle energy as the vaunted .44 Remington Magnum out of an 8 3/8" Model 29 Smith & Wesson, it is marvelously effective in social situations. Once the aforementioned load hits even one layer of drywall/plasterboard, it disperses such that you no longer have a bolus of lead moving at 1,250 fps, but individual pellets at greatly reduced velocity. If someone is any distance from the wall, you may put their eye out but you won't kill them. Buckshot is a bad idea. It can kill someone in the next room after penetrating a wall. As an aside, the peak pressures in a shotgun tend to hover around 10,000 psi, and most of the energy is expended in the first 5" of travel. In a Magnum pistol cartridge, the pressures are on the order of 40,000 psi and the pressures are near-peak when the bullet exits the muzzle. Though you may have more powder in a shotgun shell than a pistol cartridge (I put significantly more powder in my normal .44 Mag. loads than my 12 gauge loads) the muzzle blast is not as fierce. If you have ever fired a full-patch cartridge in a closed space without ear protection, you will appreciate the difference. One last advantage of a shotgun over a pistol is that it's tougher to wave around. Your average civilian holding a pistol will have it pointed all over the place, and even a 20" barrelled pistol-gripped Model 870 Remington or equivalent is easier to keep pointed in an intentional direction. In any event, training and practice are key to safely and effectively using any firearm. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it, since when you need it you need it badly. Blue skies, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maxmadmax 8 #214 March 15, 2004 I am all for gun control............ Hitting what you aim at!!!!! especially slime ball thiefs......etc. Don't go away mad....just go away! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crapflinger2000 1 #215 March 15, 2004 None of the options suit me... Yes, if my life or the lives of family were in danger. I will not kill someone over "stuff". I have a gun, announce to the house that I am armed and they better get the hell out while I wait "holed-up" somewhere... I will wait and call the cops... If they barge into the room... bang bang bang... __________________________________________________ What would Vic Mackey do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #216 March 15, 2004 QuoteI will not kill someone over "stuff" My only statement here is no one 'knows' if it's 'over stuff' or what the intent of the intruder is or if they have a weapon or not despite the penalties for packing during a break in. You have a good answer, be 'ready' to shoot'. (But you've lost an edge with announcing yourself if they are armed and ready to shoot). Do you have kids? Do want to take the chance that they are armed and you just let them know you're awake and ready to fight? Wendy - When I pound nails, I definitely take out the bullets first. Cause one time I..... nevermind ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mujie96 0 #217 March 15, 2004 If someone's robbing my house they're so totally whacked out on drugs they don't realize there's nothing to steal. Hell yes I'd shoot him/her/it, they're dangerously insane and criminally stupid. Edit: Wait a sec, I've got a kick ass renter's insurance policy and no gun. Maybe I'd shoot him with a rubber band gun. Just keep swimming...just keep swimming.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #218 March 15, 2004 QuoteSC Home Invasion laws, new just this last year, make possible the fact that if a person/persons enters your domicile, unwanted, unannounced and unwelcome, we have the right to use deadly force, no matter what the other circumstances. I was having trouble finding links directly to a law like that, and I couldn't find it in the online listings. http://www.scstatehouse.net/code/statmast.htm Do you know what the law is called or have a link to the text? I'm interested in reading it. I did however find a press release from the SC Atty General's office to that effect dated January 2003, declaring "open season." QuoteI, for one, will protect my loved ones, home and property, in any way I see fit, creating the most amount of damage in the least amount of time as possible. I hope that came out meaning something other than what you meant. Did you really mean you want to create as much damage as possible? Do you want to kill them no matter what, or just use any forc encessary to stop them? (knowing that they may die as a result of your force)witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #219 March 15, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuote...I'd shoot him somewhere that I know he wouldn't get up, but would still be alive.Quote Where exactly would that be? I'll give you a clue. You piss with it. And after that, either a kneecap or hold the gun to his head. How many hours a week do you spend on the gun range? Please break that down into hours spent on accuracy training and hours spent in high stress simulated scenarios. A knee cap is about the size of a tennis ball. If you don't shoot all the time, you're not going to hit a target that size, with a pistol, under high stress, from more than about five feet away. Even then you may give the perp time to fire his own weapon. How many hours a week do you spend on the gun range? Please break that down into hours spent on accuracy training and hours spent in high stress simulated scenarios. A knee cap is about the size of a tennis ball. If you don't shoot all the time, you're not going to hit a target that size, with a pistol, under high stress, from more than about five feet away. Even then you may give the perp time to fire his own weapon. If you shoot an intruder in the genitals, you'd better get both a criminal lawyer and a civil litigation attorney because your ass is headed up a creek. That judge is going to hear all about how you obviously didn't fear for your life because you took the time to aim for a relatively small (refrain from laughing, children) area of the body with the direct intent of causing extreme pain and irreparable harm to the victim (yes, now HE is the victim). Intentionally shooting to wound is illegal in many states. There is a reason for that. If you have the time and awareness to shoot to wound, you don't really need to shoot at all.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Douva 0 #220 March 15, 2004 QuoteI didn't know how I would react realistically if that pressure and stress of the situation were forced on me, because I can't know unless I were in the situation, so I posted the first thing I thought, which is what I would like done to anyone who harmed someone I love dearly. Thought and reality are two different things, as well as rational thought sitting here and attempting to think rationally in the situation. I feel that the actual outcome would be unpredictable. What you would do in that type of situation is a good thing to think about. You need to have a plan of action burned into your brain. Circumstances may dictate that you change your plan, but you don't want to have to create a plan on the spot--That's when you end up making a serious mistake like shooting someone in the crotch because you couldn't think what else to do.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #221 March 15, 2004 Apparently you didn't read my above post. I'll copy and paste it for ya. WrongWay to TS (the texan shell stealer) "Seriously though, you have a good point, and honestly, whether I would do that in a real life situation or not, I doubt it. The only reason I said that is this, imagine someone hurting your loved ones, what would you think of doing to them? What you would think of doing and what you would actually do are most likely two totally different things. I didn't know how I would react realistically if that pressure and stress of the situation were forced on me, because I can't know unless I were in the situation, so I posted the first thing I thought, which is what I would like done to anyone who harmed someone I love dearly. Thought and reality are two different things, as well as rational thought sitting here and attempting to think rationally in the situation. I feel that the actual outcome would be unpredictable. " And there you have it. This has been a WrongWay production. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Douva 0 #222 March 15, 2004 QuoteApparently you didn't read my above post. I'll copy and paste it for ya. WrongWay to TS (the texan shell stealer) "Seriously though, you have a good point, and honestly, whether I would do that in a real life situation or not, I doubt it. The only reason I said that is this, imagine someone hurting your loved ones, what would you think of doing to them? What you would think of doing and what you would actually do are most likely two totally different things. I didn't know how I would react realistically if that pressure and stress of the situation were forced on me, because I can't know unless I were in the situation, so I posted the first thing I thought, which is what I would like done to anyone who harmed someone I love dearly. Thought and reality are two different things, as well as rational thought sitting here and attempting to think rationally in the situation. I feel that the actual outcome would be unpredictable. " And there you have it. This has been a WrongWay production. Ah, see, now you didn't read my above (directly above) post. We're both playing catch-up.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #223 March 15, 2004 QuoteQuoteI didn't know how I would react realistically if that pressure and stress of the situation were forced on me, because I can't know unless I were in the situation, so I posted the first thing I thought, which is what I would like done to anyone who harmed someone I love dearly. Thought and reality are two different things, as well as rational thought sitting here and attempting to think rationally in the situation. I feel that the actual outcome would be unpredictable. What you would do in that type of situation is a good thing to think about. You need to have a plan of action burned into your brain. Circumstances may dictate that you change your plan, but you don't want to have to create a plan on the spot--That's when you end up making a serious mistake like shooting someone in the crotch because you couldn't think what else to do. As of now, my serious plan would be having no quick access to a gun. Better to plan for more by planning to have less than be unprepared for a worse situation. I've had a bit of training in martial arts/disarming attackers, and that'd be the first thing I'd do, followed by doing all I could to safely detain the person or disable them from causing any harm to myself or someone else, then call the proper authorities. Honestly, I'm not a violent person, but if worse comes to worse and its my life or his, I'm going to see tomorrow. Whether he does or not is going to become his own problem. If there was a gun involved, I'd shoot him if he came at me or one of my family members, but first I'd try to hold him at gunpoint for as long as possible. I'd only do the above mentioned if it were a very, very severe case. But hey, it was the first thing that came to mind if a family member was hurt. Then again, what do I know, I'm just a young punk anyway. Edited to add: Yeah we were definitely playing a game of catch up. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Faber 0 #224 March 15, 2004 QuoteEdit: Wait a sec, I've got a kick ass renter's insurance policy and no gun. Maybe I'd shoot him with a rubber band gun. ha ha i like that one Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Girlfalldown 0 #225 March 15, 2004 I killed a mouse once. Had to. He was stuck on that sticky paper and he was dying anyway. I felt so bad for him. After I killed him I felt absolutely shitty. Killing sucks. I couldn't kill a person unless, like you said, they were harming someone I loved. If all they were doing was robbing me maybe I'd shoot em in the leg or something, I don't really know. Shooting some one that's robbing you TO KILL just seems harsh and I think losing some belongings would be better (for me) then the turmoil I'd be in for taking a human life. -------------- (Do not, I repeat DO NOT, take my posts seriously.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Next Page 9 of 11 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Douva 0 #220 March 15, 2004 QuoteI didn't know how I would react realistically if that pressure and stress of the situation were forced on me, because I can't know unless I were in the situation, so I posted the first thing I thought, which is what I would like done to anyone who harmed someone I love dearly. Thought and reality are two different things, as well as rational thought sitting here and attempting to think rationally in the situation. I feel that the actual outcome would be unpredictable. What you would do in that type of situation is a good thing to think about. You need to have a plan of action burned into your brain. Circumstances may dictate that you change your plan, but you don't want to have to create a plan on the spot--That's when you end up making a serious mistake like shooting someone in the crotch because you couldn't think what else to do.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #221 March 15, 2004 Apparently you didn't read my above post. I'll copy and paste it for ya. WrongWay to TS (the texan shell stealer) "Seriously though, you have a good point, and honestly, whether I would do that in a real life situation or not, I doubt it. The only reason I said that is this, imagine someone hurting your loved ones, what would you think of doing to them? What you would think of doing and what you would actually do are most likely two totally different things. I didn't know how I would react realistically if that pressure and stress of the situation were forced on me, because I can't know unless I were in the situation, so I posted the first thing I thought, which is what I would like done to anyone who harmed someone I love dearly. Thought and reality are two different things, as well as rational thought sitting here and attempting to think rationally in the situation. I feel that the actual outcome would be unpredictable. " And there you have it. This has been a WrongWay production. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #222 March 15, 2004 QuoteApparently you didn't read my above post. I'll copy and paste it for ya. WrongWay to TS (the texan shell stealer) "Seriously though, you have a good point, and honestly, whether I would do that in a real life situation or not, I doubt it. The only reason I said that is this, imagine someone hurting your loved ones, what would you think of doing to them? What you would think of doing and what you would actually do are most likely two totally different things. I didn't know how I would react realistically if that pressure and stress of the situation were forced on me, because I can't know unless I were in the situation, so I posted the first thing I thought, which is what I would like done to anyone who harmed someone I love dearly. Thought and reality are two different things, as well as rational thought sitting here and attempting to think rationally in the situation. I feel that the actual outcome would be unpredictable. " And there you have it. This has been a WrongWay production. Ah, see, now you didn't read my above (directly above) post. We're both playing catch-up.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #223 March 15, 2004 QuoteQuoteI didn't know how I would react realistically if that pressure and stress of the situation were forced on me, because I can't know unless I were in the situation, so I posted the first thing I thought, which is what I would like done to anyone who harmed someone I love dearly. Thought and reality are two different things, as well as rational thought sitting here and attempting to think rationally in the situation. I feel that the actual outcome would be unpredictable. What you would do in that type of situation is a good thing to think about. You need to have a plan of action burned into your brain. Circumstances may dictate that you change your plan, but you don't want to have to create a plan on the spot--That's when you end up making a serious mistake like shooting someone in the crotch because you couldn't think what else to do. As of now, my serious plan would be having no quick access to a gun. Better to plan for more by planning to have less than be unprepared for a worse situation. I've had a bit of training in martial arts/disarming attackers, and that'd be the first thing I'd do, followed by doing all I could to safely detain the person or disable them from causing any harm to myself or someone else, then call the proper authorities. Honestly, I'm not a violent person, but if worse comes to worse and its my life or his, I'm going to see tomorrow. Whether he does or not is going to become his own problem. If there was a gun involved, I'd shoot him if he came at me or one of my family members, but first I'd try to hold him at gunpoint for as long as possible. I'd only do the above mentioned if it were a very, very severe case. But hey, it was the first thing that came to mind if a family member was hurt. Then again, what do I know, I'm just a young punk anyway. Edited to add: Yeah we were definitely playing a game of catch up. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #224 March 15, 2004 QuoteEdit: Wait a sec, I've got a kick ass renter's insurance policy and no gun. Maybe I'd shoot him with a rubber band gun. ha ha i like that one Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Girlfalldown 0 #225 March 15, 2004 I killed a mouse once. Had to. He was stuck on that sticky paper and he was dying anyway. I felt so bad for him. After I killed him I felt absolutely shitty. Killing sucks. I couldn't kill a person unless, like you said, they were harming someone I loved. If all they were doing was robbing me maybe I'd shoot em in the leg or something, I don't really know. Shooting some one that's robbing you TO KILL just seems harsh and I think losing some belongings would be better (for me) then the turmoil I'd be in for taking a human life. -------------- (Do not, I repeat DO NOT, take my posts seriously.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
