Touching the Void

[tunaplanet 0]

Anyone else see this movie? Me and Dagny watched it over the weekend. Unbeleivable to say the least. What an amazing story of courage and determination.

Although I have to shake my head at Simon for cutting the rope. An extremely wrong thing to do. No wonder he was shunned by other climbers in the community.

Forty-two

[wmw999 2,171]

yup

It was a stunner. But I disagree about cutting the rope. Is it better for 2 to die than one? I know someone who has been in that situation, and it's hellish, during, and for years afterwards.

By "that situation" I don't mean in mountaineering, but a situation in which the action he took to save himself cut the other person loose. In that case, they did not survive.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[canopycandy 0]

GREAT movie.

I happened to hear an interview with Simon a couple days after I watched the video. He said he was shunned by climbers in the U.S., but people in Europe supported his decision. I thought that was really interesting and made a decent point about how people in different cultures approach the same situation in different ways.

I honestly don't know what I would do in a situation like that. I probably would have waited way longer to cut the rope, maybe until I did everything possible to figure out what exactly was happening below me.

After watching the DVD, I said to my boyfriend, "Isn't it interesting that a film about a climbing emergency is two hours long ... but a film about a skydiving emergency would be just two minutes?"

[tunaplanet 0]

Quote

But I disagree about cutting the rope.

Of course you do. People love to disagree/complain in these threads.

I am extremely thankful I didn't serve with anyone in my unit that had that mindset. Leave no man behind. Period. And yes, I have been put in a similiar situation (non mountain climbing) while serving.

Forty-two

[Sheenster303 0]

I fell asleep during the first 5 minutes of it. I have a hard time staying awake in movies that don't automatically grab my attention and that movie did not automatically grab my attention. But then again I probably fell asleep due to all the pain meds I was on at the time. I'll try again later and see what happens.

I'm so funny I crack my head open!

P.M.S. #102

[cvfd1399 0]

sounds like a XXX movie

[akarunway 1]

Good flick. Just watched it. Guy had balls of ice. Hey Mike, You ever cut me away and I live I won't be so nice.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

Of course you do. People love to disagree/complain in these threads.

Seems to be a common trait in every one you participate in anyway.

[SBS 0]

An extremely wrong thing to do.

----------------------

That's a pretty bold statement, considering that the person whose life was directly threatened is completely supportive and understanding of the decision. What were the other options? Both of them die? Is that better? It's not like he cut the rope at the first sign of adversity...From my understanding of the situation, he exhausted his options, and himself, and was about to die.

What I find extremely wrong is that you could say something so judgemental about someone in such a horrible situation.

What would you do? Kill yourself along with your friend?

Come on Monday Morning Quarterback...what exactly was the right answer???

-S

_____________
I'm not conceited...I'm just realistic about my awesomeness...

[climbnjump 0]

Quote

Quote

But I disagree about cutting the rope.

Of course you do. People love to disagree/complain in these threads.

I am extremely thankful I didn't serve with anyone in my unit that had that mindset. Leave no man behind. Period. And yes, I have been put in a similiar situation (non mountain climbing) while serving.

Sure, everyone can have an opinion regarding whether cutting the rope was right or wrong. But the fact is none of us were there - only Simon was. The other fact is that in spite of his cutting the rope, they both survived. I'm having difficulty envisioning a better outcome.

And I HAVE been in Simon's position while taking part in a climbing rescue that went from bad to worse. Had I not been able to hold my partner (there was no time to build an adequate anchor), I would have let him go. It was something he knew and accepted when he went over the edge. He was risking his life to save another. But if I had been unable to hold him, my dying with him would have served no purpose (except ensure that the rescue would fail). If you have done EVERYTHING you can, but it isn't enough to prevent another death, is there a purpose in dying "just because"? Maybe, maybe not. It is a question that can only be honestly answered in the split second that you encounter it.

Climbing is not combat. People choose to climb, they are not ordered to do so. In making the choice to climb, they must also accept responsibility for the outcome. While climbers frequently do risk (and sometimes lose) their lives to rescue others, the strict "leave no man behind" rule does not apply. Any climber who believes that it should apply, would be better off staying home.

[akarunway 1]

I'd say you would have to be IN that situation. That's a hard call unless you were THERE. 20 20

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[BASE813 0]

Fucking cool movie, that guy is a star...........

After watching the movie, I started to go to the shops (40mins) each day on my crutches as it made me feel quite silly for thinking that journey was too much of a pain in the arse for me!

Apparently in the book, where the film ends, he actually still had a major trek out afterwards..........

The drive to live hey!

Wasnt there also a story about a guy in Moab I think who broke and cut off his own arm after getting it trapped?

Now these are hardcore bastards!

[LivingLegend 0]

I have militray experience, Combat is NOT the same at all and Ive also been thru a similar experience in the sailing world.

Unless you were there you can have an opinion but those two are the only ones entitled/qualified to judge or comment on what was right and wrong.

________________________________________

1.618 !

[VampireGirl 0]

Yeah, I found it much easier to get up in the morning after reading the book.

For all the people who can't understand Simon's point of view, it may be worth taking the time out to read the book too, it is told from both guy's points of view and offers an insight into what both of them were thinking. Havent seen the move yet, (I'm a book kinda person).

www.sneale-create.com

[BASE813 0]

Quote

Yeah, I found it much easier to get up in the morning after reading the book.

For all the people who can't understand Simon's point of view, it may be worth taking the time out to read the book too, it is told from both guy's points of view and offers an insight into what both of them were thinking. Havent seen the move yet, (I'm a book kinda person).

for sure............ dont we bitch about simple things hey!

for those that disagree with the decision to chop his friend away....... i think that most would not have a clue how they would react.......... until you are in that situation then you cant say whether its a good choice or not......... he had a burning desire to live and did what he needed to do.......... dont judge until you have walked in his shoes........ (or something like that!!!)

they were hardcore and had hardcore decisions to take........... end of.....

what ever you decide.......... it was right at that time!

[wmw999 2,171]

For those who say it's absolutely wrong, consider the following scenario; it might bring it closer to home.

After opening, you find you have a 90 degree turn in your canopy. The guy next to you does, too, and you were just a little too close.

He runs into your canopy (you're very close to the same altitude -- this isn't a low-man/high-man situation). There is enough of your canopy that you're spinning, but still feet to earth. His canopy is fouled too. He's not responding, although you're yelling as loud as you can. It's not a stable configuration.

Do you chop at your hard deck? Do you chop below your hard deck? Or do you try to land this because to chop means for certain that what's left of your canopy will wrap around him, and then it'll be worse. Except that if you land this, you'll both die. It's that clear.

You have a few seconds to decide.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[jakee 1,279]

Quote

Although I have to shake my head at Simon for cutting the rope. An extremely wrong thing to do. No wonder he was shunned by other climbers in the community.

Always negative.
Bear in mind that in this case if the rope hadn't been cut they would both have died, and possibly their non climbing mate at base camp as well who was on his way to the glacier to look for them when Yates made it back.

Also, read Joe Simpsons book. In it he makes it perfectly clear that not only does he support Simon Yates' decision 100% but he would have done the same himself if the situation had been reversed. It's also a fucking good book with stunning photography and much more background on their expedition

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Dagny 0]

Clearly, cutting the rope was a difficult decision (or should have been). And it is still a questionable action. What I find more offensive about the situation is not that he cut the rope in a desperate situation, but that he did not attempt to confirm the death of his friend by visualizing the body. Just hollering in the general direction of the crevasse, when said communication attempts had been unsuccessful previously, is just bad form. Particularly when it leaves your friend and climbing partner such a perilous journey.

The guy lost a third of his body weight during his trek. Unreal.

To whoever said it was US climbers that disagreed with his decision while the UK embraced it: Simon's choice was frowned upon by the Everest climbing board (or something of that nature). I don't believe that is a US based association? They were going to revoke his licensure as a result of his actions. It's good that Joe supports his old friend, because he didn't get that same support from the climbing community...even in the UK.

Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic.
-Salvador Dali

[wmw999 2,171]

Quote

Simon's choice was frowned upon by the Everest climbing board (or something of that nature)

A little more information about that. It was some members, and, just as any realtime action in skydiving with consequences is likely to have critics, any realtime action in mountaineering is likely to have critics.

Nice post from rec.climbing by someone who appears to be quite involved in the climbing community.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[crwmike 0]

Quote

yup

It was a stunner. But I disagree about cutting the rope. Is it better for 2 to die than one? I know someone who has been in that situation, and it's hellish, during, and for years afterwards.

By "that situation" I don't mean in mountaineering, but a situation in which the action he took to save himself cut the other person loose. In that case, they did not survive.

Wendy W.

Agreed (I suspect most long time skydivers would agree). If I were on the bottom of the rope, I would hope and trust that my brother would evaluate the situation and make the hard decision. My death would be ill served if it brought about my brother dying needlessly for me.

Now. If he had an honest shot ...Go for it!

Sometimes facts are just not what we want them to be ...don't let that keep you from making the right decisions.

BSBD,

Michael

[billvon 2,473]

>> An extremely wrong thing to do.


It's an issue that comes up in AFF pretty often. Sometimes you have to let students go. Sometimes you have to let them go even if they're not going to pull on their own and you don't think they have an AAD. It's better to lose one student than a student and an instructor.

Of course, the right answer in those cases is to use good judgement and good flying skills to never get yourself in that situation to begin with. But sometimes they happen anyway. I found myself in that situation last year at Rantoul, where a jumper I was organizing became unstable, tried to pull, and then just gave up and started spinning on her back. She had a very old Vector and did not have an AAD to the best of my knowledge. I was able to get to her and open her reserve by 2000 feet, but I also knew in the back of my mind that if I hadn't been able to get to her by 1500 feet I'd be opening my reserve and watching her go in.

Could I abandon a friend of mine like that? I'm not sure. But it would be the right thing to do.

[chuckbrown 0]

Read the book. Absolutely incredible story of guts and LUCK. Can't wait to see the movie. I don't know about not cutting the rope ... something about walking a mile in another's shoes before passing judgment. I think its also telling that Joe Simpson didn't fault Simon Yates for cutting the rope.

[chuckbrown 0]

Quote

Apparently in the book, where the film ends, he actually still had a major trek out afterwards..........

Simpson managed to crawl back to base camp just hours before Yates was planning to leave (having believed Simpson was dead). He then had to travel for sometime on horseback to reach medical facilities. I highly recommend the book. You won't put it down.

[evilivan 0]

Quote

Apparently in the book, where the film ends, he actually still had a major trek out afterwards..........

If you get the DVD this is included in a documentary in the extras...

"If you can keep your head when all around you have lost theirs, then you probably haven't understood the seriousness of the situation."
David Brent

[tunaplanet 0]

Quote

Bear in mind that in this case if the rope hadn't been cut they would both have died

That's just a plain, outright lie.

Makes me frightful to know I jump with people who have cowardly instincts and will let you die at the first hint of danger instead of AIO and refuse to leave a man behind.

Forty-two