Taris 0 #1 November 14, 2009 Hi everyone, I'm looking for my first rig and I've been told that a sabre2 150 would be perfect for me (don't worry, I've asked the right persons). Knowing that one can not always find exactly what he's looking for, I'm searching canopies that can be comparable to de sabre2. I've found on an older post : "intermediate canopies such as spectre, safire 1/2, sabre 1/2, pilot, triathlon, silhouette, fusion. " Are those all more or less comparable? Are there any other that could compare? (Don't loose your time on the spectre, I know that one) Thanks for your advices. Max Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #2 November 14, 2009 Comparable in what way? The sabre 2 and the fusion are the most high performance canopies of that list (eh, my list?), the 7cell spectre and triathlon are totally different canopies, and the rest are 9 cells that fall in the middle of these, performance-wise. Opening-wise, some of these generally open harder than others. Flare-wise, each of these needs a different "touch". Basically, you try to demo as much models as you can to determine which of these canopies you like and don't like, and which size you want your canopy to be. No-one can say a sabre2 150 will be perfect for anyone else, it's like saying a mazda 323 is perfect for you just after getting your driver's license when you may like a nissan sunny much better once you get behind the wheel. Or something like that It's personal, anyway. If you want to buy new BTW, you can add the pulse to the list, very nice canopy, a little less HP than a sabre2, more of a pilot/safire class canopy. If you want specifics on each canopy, do a search and most definately read the gear section: it has descriptions of most if not all of the above canopies and lots of reviews. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 November 14, 2009 Safire2, Pilot and the Sabre2 are similar enough that you would probably be happy with one of them if you're looking in that class of canopy. I have jumped all three canopies in various sizes and out of all three of those I personally liked the Sabre2 more than the others. There are various reasons for that, but overall I liked how the canopy flew and flared. Although I would recommend that you demo one of each, if at all possible The Silhouette is a little different then the Sabre2. Its a hybrid canopy that opens well and flies very well but isn't as "zippy" as a Sabre2. Its still a great canopy, though, especially as a first canopy. The Triathlon is an old design 7-cell canopy. Its the one canopy that "does everything" but it does everything very poorly. Mediocre openings, crappy flare and all in all just not a modern design. If you want a modern 7 cell, then take a hard look at the Storm. Great openings, strong flare and quite a fun canopy to fly.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeatlast 0 #4 November 14, 2009 Hi Taris Depending on whether you are looking for a new or used canopy and where you jump then you could also add NRG canopy from paratec and X-Fun from Basik and Dragon 7 Cell or Stealth 9 Cell from Atair and possibly the Electra as well... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humanflite 0 #5 November 14, 2009 QuoteSafire2, Pilot and the Sabre2 are similar enough that you would probably be happy with one of them if you're looking in that class of canopy. I have jumped all three canopies in various sizes and out of all three of those I personally liked the Sabre2 more than the others. There are various reasons for that, but overall I liked how the canopy flew and flared. Although I would recommend that you demo one of each, if at all possible The Silhouette is a little different then the Sabre2. Its a hybrid canopy that opens well and flies very well but isn't as "zippy" as a Sabre2. Its still a great canopy, though, especially as a first canopy. The Triathlon is an old design 7-cell canopy. Its the one canopy that "does everything" but it does everything very poorly. Mediocre openings, crappy flare and all in all just not a modern design. If you want a modern 7 cell, then take a hard look at the Storm. Great openings, strong flare and quite a fun canopy to fly. a bit harsh to say a Triathlon does everything poorly?? misinformed even...! Ive jumped a Tri 170 and 150 in the past and found them to be a nice canopy. Ok, they are never going to b Hp, but thats not their aim.. Great for demos, very stable in turbulent conditions, and super nice openings every time!! Sabre 2 and Pilot I agree are similar with Sabre 2 having a more powerful flare and less nice openings (IME) and the Pilot having a deeper weaker flare and lovely but slow openings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeNReN 0 #6 November 15, 2009 QuoteQuoteSafire2, Pilot and the Sabre2 are similar enough that you would probably be happy with one of them if you're looking in that class of canopy. I have jumped all three canopies in various sizes and out of all three of those I personally liked the Sabre2 more than the others. There are various reasons for that, but overall I liked how the canopy flew and flared. Although I would recommend that you demo one of each, if at all possible The Silhouette is a little different then the Sabre2. Its a hybrid canopy that opens well and flies very well but isn't as "zippy" as a Sabre2. Its still a great canopy, though, especially as a first canopy. The Triathlon is an old design 7-cell canopy. Its the one canopy that "does everything" but it does everything very poorly. Mediocre openings, crappy flare and all in all just not a modern design. If you want a modern 7 cell, then take a hard look at the Storm. Great openings, strong flare and quite a fun canopy to fly. a bit harsh to say a Triathlon does everything poorly?? misinformed even...! Ive jumped a Tri 170 and 150 in the past and found them to be a nice canopy. Ok, they are never going to b Hp, but thats not their aim.. Great for demos, very stable in turbulent conditions, and super nice openings every time!! Sabre 2 and Pilot I agree are similar with Sabre 2 having a more powerful flare and less nice openings (IME) and the Pilot having a deeper weaker flare and lovely but slow openings. I think Dave was bitten by a Tri as a child..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #7 November 15, 2009 I don't care who you asked a 150 is too small for ANYONE as a first canopy, IMHO.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jbag 0 #8 November 15, 2009 QuoteI don't care who you asked a 150 is too small for ANYONE as a first canopy, IMHO. i'm going to agree and disagre...for a student yes, its way to small, but what happens when you get a girl who is 5'1" 95lbs. with gear estimated at 15lbs at that size the approx wingload will be .8. now lets say the girl buys the 150 as a first canopy w/ 25 jumps, is .8 to much of a WL for that experience? and at that point anything bigger like a 170 or 190 would almost indefinately have that pilot flying backwards and being unable to penetrate anything in any type of wind.IHYD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 36 #9 November 15, 2009 Not necessarily. Years ago I was a rookie jumper and went to a dz where PD had a booth and John Leblanc himself downsized me to a 135 when I had less than 50 jumps. But I only weighed 110 at the time. Wing loading matters. And please - jump any canopy before you make an opinion of it. Other people bad-mouth Triathlons - I have over 6000 jumps and have 8 rigs packed up ready to jump. 7 have Triathlons. They open beautiful, fly nice, and land easily.. Absolutely - you're not going to swoop across the pond and win swoop competitions with it - but if you fly it like what it is - a 7 cell canopy - they fly great. I regularly jump Triathlons from a 1.0 to a 1.7 wing loading - they all open soft and fly and land softly and easily.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humanflite 0 #10 November 15, 2009 QuoteI don't care who you asked a 150 is too small for ANYONE as a first canopy, IMHO. I agree, certainly a Sabre2... Even if the wing loading is only 0.8 (and I dont recall they have posted their weight..) they still have a more aggressive trim than say a comparable 190. A 7 cell 170 would be perfect for the OP. and if its so windy they cant make forward groundspeed then dont jump in it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taris 0 #11 November 15, 2009 Well, I'm not 110 pounds... I'm 195... but I don't have 25 jumps, 90. I'm now jumping a saber 190 (witch I rent) and did few jumps with a saber2 170 during the summer and I felt very confortable with the landings. That's why I'm looking for something lower. I will rapidly be bored with a 170. Thanks to all for the advice, I allready have a clearer idea. Blue skies Max Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #12 November 15, 2009 In my personal OPINION, you are a statistic waiting to happen. Would you mind disclosing how old you are ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trigger 0 #13 November 15, 2009 Troll maybe .CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taris 0 #14 November 16, 2009 I'm 27 and I'm not a "cowboy" kind skydiver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blink 0 #15 November 16, 2009 QuoteI'm 27 and I'm not a "cowboy" kind skydiver. I beg to differ if you think it's ok to jump a 1.5WL at 90 jumps... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #16 November 16, 2009 Taris: Please take the following as I intend it... a sincere attempt to be helpful. If you are truly considering a 150 and you weigh 195lbs...you are REALLY looking for trouble. 195+25 gives you an exit weight of 220lbs and a wing loading of 1.47! Do not believe me. Read the following and decide for yourself: USPA canopy size recommendations: http://www.uspa.org/SIM/Read/Section6/tabid/169/Default.aspx#1072 Brian Germain's canopy size recommendations (and 21 other wonderful pages of canopy related info). http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf Bill Von Novack's downsizing challenge. This is interesting because it does NOT tell what canopy you should or should not jump. It simply challenges you to DEMONSTRATE your readiness to downsize. If you meet the standard... downsize the increments recommended above. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=47 Look at it this way.... If theguy who suggested that it was OK for you to jump the 150 is wrong, what happens? You pay with pain, $$, lost work, and possibly your life. If I and the others who wrote the linked documents are wrong... you spend a while longer on canopies bigger than necessary. Which is the better risk to take? Blue Skies, JimThe choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #17 November 16, 2009 Quote In my personal OPINION, you are a statistic waiting to happen. +1 To the OP....Slow down. You have a lot to learn on bigger canopy's before you go and kill/hurt yourself. There is no way you have gotten all you can out of a 190, much less a 170.Nothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #18 November 16, 2009 I would strongly suggest you read the links GLIDEANGLE put up. Especially look at the absolute minimum for your weight and experience recommended by Brian Germain. There are all sorts of good reasons to jump a larger canopy for a while. One of the biggest is that you haven't trained out some of the natural reflexes that will get you hurt. The most obvious is "reaching for the ground". When hit by a gust, you will reach for the ground the first couple times. It's a natural reaction, like blinking. Under a large canopy, you will get bumps and bruises. Under a 150 loaded at 1.5:1 broken bones are almost guaranteed. This has little or nothing to do with how smart you are, or how much you know, this is purely an experience issue. You may have trained out that particular reflex (skateboarders usually have), but there are others just like it that are just as dangerous. If you follow a good training/mentoring program, you will not get bored under a 170. You will actually get better faster (believe it or not). What will happen is that you will push to the canopy's limits, then push your own limits further flying a larger canopy at it's own limits. Under a smaller canopy, you won't be able to push your own limits because the limits of the canopy are so far beyond your abilities. (Kind of like getting to be a better race driver by running go-karts - You have to drive lesser machines very well). THIS THREAD is from earlier this month, dealing with the exact same question. I didn't reply to it because the OP wasn't listening anymore by the time I got to it. But my advice would be what I am putting here. I would suggest you look at the profiles of those saying that this is a bad idea. There are a lot of world class skydivers on here, all of them think it's better to stay on a bigger canopy. If you were getting online golf advice from Tiger Woods, Phil Mickelson ect., would you listen? You aren't "guaranteed" to get hurt under a 150, but you are increasing your chances quite a bit, and isn't there enough risk in this sport?"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain1976 0 #19 November 16, 2009 You are my weight, let me recommend the Spectre. A bit bias here but if you read some threads I don't think you will find anything but praise for what I believe is the best canopy design of all. Nice performance, great openings (probably the most forgiving of bad body position), great flair and landings. I jump a 230 but you may want a 210 which is still within limits.You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #20 November 16, 2009 QuoteYou are my weight, let me recommend the Spectre. I agree. My Spectre meets my definition of "docile"... It behaves well when I don't.The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jbag 0 #21 November 16, 2009 ive been flying my sabre 2 170 @ 1.23 for 250 jumps now, i am still not bored of it, you can't get bored of a canopy until you have mastered everything about it...take it easy and slow down a bit before i have to buy you a spatula.IHYD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taris 0 #22 November 16, 2009 Well, I have to admit that I prefer get bored than hurt !! [/crazy] You guys really look anxious... Don't worry, I haven't bought anything yet, that's why I'm asking questions before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #23 November 16, 2009 Quote Well, I have to admit that I prefer get bored than hurt !! [/crazy] You guys really look anxious... Don't worry, I haven't bought anything yet, that's why I'm asking questions before. Yes, bored under canopy is a lot better than bored on the gound waiting for the cast to come off. And yes, the people replying are a bit anxious. There have been way too many jumpers that were unwilling to listen to good advice (again, read the thread I linked) that ended up hurt or dead. It comes out a little funny at times, but the people offering advice really do care, and don't want to see you get hurt. Or they just don't want to have to wait on the ground while the ambulace (or coroner) gets finished."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
