strop45 0 #1 June 24, 2008 Following on from the tail strike incident, I wondered whether we need a set of commonly understood hand signals - one poster mentioned showing "knuckles". I'm not sure what that would mean. Even if we just had some "go", "no go" signals it would be useful?The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Converted1 0 #2 June 24, 2008 Showing "knuckles" means stop. Arm vertical with a closed fist. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #3 June 24, 2008 Funny... I allways considered an outstreched arm with the hand open hannd pointed up as the universal sign to stop. I use it to stop people while I am in manifest and I see one of our newer jumpers rushing to the plane and I have a hunch that they haven't recieved a gear check."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #4 June 24, 2008 >I wondered whether we need a set of commonly understood hand signals - I think we have them. I can think of signals for "what are the uppers" "what are the ground winds" "look for traffic/check the spot" "open the door" "close the door" and "hold". For AFF, we also have the "get into position" and "check your altimeter" signal. (This of course is in addition to the more commonly used signals like "you're a pussy" "you're a bigger pussy" etc.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Converted1 0 #5 June 24, 2008 http://www.defendamerica.mil/archive/2007-04/20070413pm2.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Converted1 0 #6 June 24, 2008 Quote>I wondered whether we need a set of commonly understood hand signals - (This of course is in addition to the more commonly used signals like "you're a pussy" "you're a bigger pussy" etc.) I think those are 2 fingers pointing up and 2 fingers spread apart pointing up Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #7 June 24, 2008 Quote I think we have them. I can think of signals for "what are the uppers" "what are the ground winds" "look for traffic/check the spot" "open the door" "close the door" and "hold". For AFF, we also have the "get into position" and "check your altimeter" signal. OK, I'll bite. What are these signals? At my DZ we simply yell. Any hand signals are limited to the supplementary list you mentioned at the bottom of your posting.Thanks!The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #8 June 25, 2008 QuoteShowing "knuckles" means stop. Arm vertical with a closed fist. News to me. Is that a military thing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #9 June 25, 2008 Yeah, specifically, US military. For example, IIRC in the British army that signal would designate the gun team, not stop. Stop or halt in the British army is the familiar vertical flat hand. Presumably "official" hand signals will vary greatly across the globe. It's not like it matters much for skydiving what signal is used - a US military signal is probably ok - especialy given the number of ex-military peeps in the sport and the fact that the poster's talking about the US... I do wonder though what's wrong with the signal all civilians are familiar with. Surely that would ensure everyone knew what it meant, not just those who have served or watched too many 'nam movies? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erroll 49 #10 June 25, 2008 QuoteQuoteShowing "knuckles" means stop. Arm vertical with a closed fist. News to me. Is that a military thing? We certainly used that to indicate "Stop" in the SA military, both on the ground (on patrol) and, for example, when directing trucks and other vehicles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #11 June 25, 2008 Actually the reporter is incorrect. Arm raised, fingers extended and joined - is stop and is used by most NATO and US Allied Nations. The Arm raised and closed fist - is FREEZE and is used in those "OH shit" moments. Weapon raised and pointed in a particular Direction - I see the enemy, right there! (used to be some crazy inverted weapon thing and can still be found in manuals but who would do that now?) Weapon raised and pointed in a particular Direction and maken a racket - He sees me too but I got the drop on 'em. Sources - Ranger Handbook, various Infantry Leaders Manuals and few days in the Army, with one or two in combat. I recently wokred a Demo wit hsome jumpers i had not worked with before, I used the "stop" hand signal and they understood just fine, we happened to be on oposite ends ofthe Caravan, not big but in the open door and all the noise we understood each other. I think we have the signals, just use them. If a DZ uses a particular signal teach all the patrons. The big leason is COMMUNICATE. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Genn 0 #12 June 25, 2008 QuoteI do wonder though what's wrong with the signal all civilians are familiar with. Surely that would ensure everyone knew what it meant, not just those who have served or watched too many 'nam movies? As a civilian, I've been exposed to the closed fist- meaning stop. Usually when somebody is directing traffic, cranes, other large vehicles backing up where vision is limited, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #13 June 25, 2008 Closed fist means "apply brakes" in the royal Canadian Air Force. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Converted1 0 #14 June 25, 2008 QuoteActually the reporter is incorrect. Arm raised, fingers extended and joined - is stop and is used by most NATO and US Allied Nations. The Arm raised and closed fist - is FREEZE and is used in those "OH shit" moments. Matt http://www.defendamerica.mil/archive/2007-04/20070413pm2.html I guess it all depends on which side of the pond your on. Not a big deal as long as it works right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianM 1 #15 June 25, 2008 Quote Closed fist means "apply brakes" in the royal Canadian Air Force. You sure are dating yourself, Rob.. "It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #16 June 25, 2008 Quote ...and few days in the Army, with one or two in combat.... Pahh....a mere star on a CIB and a mustard stain on the wings....novice! Quote I recently wokred a Demo wit hsome jumpers i had not worked with before, I used the "stop" hand signal and they understood just fine None of those guys were former military? So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #17 June 26, 2008 >What are these signals? Hold - closed fist held up What are the upper winds? - either just point upwards, or blow on your hand and point upwards. Look for traffic/spot - point at both eyes (Three Stooges style) then point down Open the door - pantomime opening the door Close the door - pantomime closing the door Check that guy's reserve handle - point to the checker, point at both eyes, point at checkee's reserve handle AFF signals are AFF signals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strop45 0 #18 June 26, 2008 Quote Hold - closed fist held up What are the upper winds? - either just point upwards, or blow on your hand and point upwards. Look for traffic/spot - point at both eyes (Three Stooges style) then point down Open the door - pantomime opening the door Close the door - pantomime closing the door Check that guy's reserve handle - point to the checker, point at both eyes, point at checkee's reserve handle AFF signals are AFF signals Fair enough, but it seems that there are at last two commonly understood signals for stop and the door open/close signals require some interpretation. Wouldn't it be good if there were universal "open the door", "good to go" and "hold/stop signals"? I was in a plane where the lights failed, but no one had the group I was jumping with. Someone opened the door and from that point on it was hard to know what the pilot wanted. If there was a simple "good to go" signal which the pilot could have given, it would have simplified the situation.The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedSyphon 0 #19 June 26, 2008 QuoteI was in a plane where the lights failed QuoteIf there was a simple "good to go" signal which the pilot could have given, it would have simplified the situation. A cowbell won't fail... But it's not a hand signal! At our DZ most people at the door get the hint when someone, or everyone, is motioning with various points, both hands gesturing in a push motion, etc._________________________ {S}{H}{O}{R}{T}{B}{U}{S} \__ ------------------------| |-----| =--{O}------------------{O}---] D.S.#111 VSCR # 123 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strop45 0 #20 June 26, 2008 Quotemost people at the door get the hint when someone, or everyone, is motioning with various points, both hands gesturing in a push motion, etc. The point is that "someone" isn't the same as a positive signal from the pilot. Also people yelling "go" "go" "go" and pointing at the door and people yelling "no" "no" "no" and pointing at the door look very similar if you are in the door....The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #21 June 26, 2008 > Also people yelling "go" "go" "go" and pointing at the door and >people yelling "no" "no" "no" Both poor choices. I use "exit exit exit" or "we're on a hold" because there's a lot of redundancy in those sounds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #22 June 27, 2008 QuoteQuoteI was in a plane where the lights failed QuoteIf there was a simple "good to go" signal which the pilot could have given, it would have simplified the situation. A cowbell won't fail... But it's not a hand signal! At our DZ most people at the door get the hint when someone, or everyone, is motioning with various points, both hands gesturing in a push motion, etc. in a similar situation we have gotten a simple thumbs up from the pilot everybody should understand that signalYou can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #23 June 27, 2008 I ignore the lights and people shrieking like schoolkids and look at the pilot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnDeere 0 #24 June 28, 2008 Quote I ignore the lights and people shrieking like schoolkids and look at the pilot Why would you ignore the lights when the pilot is the one that turns them on and offNothing opens like a Deere! You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #25 June 28, 2008 Because eye contact with the pilot is better and not all aircraft have lights. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
