Triathlon V Pilot

[Scoop 0]

Going to get myself a brand new canopy soon, looking at either a 190 Pilot or 190 Triathlon (at 1.3:1). I've read a few reviews and paticularly like the gentle openings both are supposed to offer. I liked flying my old canopy (210 Silhouete loaded 1.2:1) but my accuracy was lacking if I'm completely honest.

I'm planning on spending a month at a dropzone as I will be starting a new job soon and want to take some time off before I start. While I'm there I want to develop my skills and hope to do an intensive 150-200 jumps. Which do you think will be the best canopy for my development? From the reviews I've read it sounds like the Triathlon may teach me more with regards to accuracy as I can sink in on brakes safely if I'm overshooting my target. I do enjoy the faster approaches though so would I be limiting myself by getting a Triathlon or is there plenty fun to be had with that too?

Will I end up bored and miserable under a Triathlon or will I learn more on this than I would on the Pilot?

EDIT TO ADD: I enjoy goofing around up high if I have the space and time to do it.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Which do you think will be the best canopy for my development? From the reviews I've read it sounds like the Triathlon may teach me more with regards to accuracy as I can sink in on brakes safely if I'm overshooting my target.

Accuracy is not about the canopy.

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I do enjoy the faster approaches though so would I be limiting myself by getting a Triathlon or is there plenty fun to be had with that too?

Demo them if you can. Anyway Pilot has better glide and that would give faster approaches too.

[Scoop 0]

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Accuracy is not about the canopy.

True, but do you think the slower glide (as I understand from reviews) will help with development?

My main deciding factor is which canopy will help me learn to be a better, safer canopy pilot.

Also, whilst I like the realtively fast straight in approaches I don't think that I will be looking to develop any further with that as, although it may sound odd, I am scared of heights and find the landing probably the most stressful part of the skydive.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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True, but do you think the slower glide (as I understand from reviews) will help with development?

You accuracy is depends on how good you are flying your pattern.

[AggieDave 6]

The triathlon is the canopy that does everything. It just does everything really really poorly. Out of those two choices I would personally choose the pilot; however, is there any chance that you can demo those two canopies and make an informed choice as to what YOU want to fly?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[tdog 0]

Dude,

I am VERY bias against Aerodyne products after putting 300 jumps on a Pilot and 700 jumps on PD products. Be warned. I don't like either the Pilot or Triathlon, although I only have a few jumps on the Tri.

Your results may very, however I found the Pilot not as forgiving in the landing as some others, and I never had fun landing it... I thought it was me until I started borrowing other canopies and realized that at the same wingloading I could get a real nice plane out and landing on other canopies whereas on the pilot I always found an imbalance of either the downward or forward speed.... I asked an Aerodyne factory rep (no longer employed there) and he said, "you just have to flare it differently than any other canopy." Basically he described to me a student flare, not a nice two staged flare where you get a nice little plane out.

I know a lot of people who have the impression, "the Pilot opens great, is fun to fly, but lands like crap." The most often told theory in the rumor mill - the trim of the pilot is flat to help with glide and openings, at the sacrifice of the landing....

But - YOU will need to demo the canopies to find out what you think. I know a lot of people who jump Pilots.

Accuracy comes from skill, not the canopy. Although, you can fly both differently to get the same result.

Example: My 310 sqft F111 Blackjack can sink in real nicely. When I jump it, I can pull deep brakes sink it in, go to full flight, then flare and have a real accurate approach.

But my Katana is equally as accurate. I saw a bunch of Air Force cadets doing training with accuracy using all sorts of "adjustments" on their final to hit the target. I decided to try my hand at it, and from full flight at 500 feet with a straight in approach, with just a minor adjustment, hit the target with about 3 inches of inaccuracy...

The Blackjack is better at sinking in, but I can full flight it and I can sink the Katana if I choose, in the same way a sports car can go to the grocery store and you can drag race a mini-van.

The key is to understand what your pattern should be like, and what things should look like, for your given canopy. And these things will change canopy by canopy, so you have to learn how to learn, not learn one canopy....

So, to answer your question. If you were my best friend and you did not or could not demo a canopy, I would say.... Get a PD Sabre2, PD Storm, PD Spectre - then consider the Safire2 and Pilot, but demo them first whereas I would not insist that you demo a PD product..... I have jumped all of them, except the Storm, and I will be jumping the Storm soon.

Again, in fairness to Aerodyne, your results might vary, I might have just been disgruntled.

(P.S. I also used to have problems with Aerodyne customer service, but I don't know about the yet-again new ownership/management... I feel more comfortable with a company like PD that is real stable too, if you damage your canopy this is important.)

[wmw999 2,122]

If landing is stressful, then determine which aspect. The Triathlon, being a 7-cell, with give the impression of going down faster. The Pilot, being a 9-cell, will give more an impression of going forward faster. Either one, moderately loaded, will be more than possible to land where you want to, when you want to.

For that matter, with enough skill, either of them, heavily loaded, can do the same thing. But if you don't choose that, no problem. Really.

Folks are right, that the Silhouette can do the same thing. If you can't do it with the Silhouette, why will you all of a sudden be able to with a heavier-loaded canopy?

If you can (I know it's not as easy being in the UK), demo, or at least borrow.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SPAWNmaster 0]

if you are really planning to do 150-200 jumps living on the DZ for a month then expect your skills to fly through the roof in every discipline. being really current like that is HUGE.

that said, you may find you wished you had gotten a sportier canopy. something like the saffire2 might be a good choice since it has a lot of range. you can fly it very conservatively or fly it very sporty.

on the other hand both the triathlon and pilot can be flown sporty or conservatively as well, i just feel that the saffire2 (or sabre2, something along those lines) might have some more range considering the amount of jumping you want to do in the near future.

like others have mentioned demo some canopies!

also, do some research on the characteristics and trim of those canopies. look into 7cell vs 9cell, too.

i have jumped all the canopies that I have mentioned in this post but my main is a triathlon. it is the canopy that does everything, and if you need my opinion on it feel free to pm.

blues.

[pilot-one 0]

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Your results may very, however I found the Pilot not as forgiving in the landing as some others, and I never had fun landing it... I thought it was me until I started borrowing other canopies and realized that at the same wingloading I could get a real nice plane out and landing on other canopies whereas on the pilot I always found an imbalance of either the downward or forward speed.... I asked an Aerodyne factory rep (no longer employed there) and he said, "you just have to flare it differently than any other canopy." Basically he described to me a student flare, not a nice two staged flare where you get a nice little plane out.

That's funny. My experience is completely opposite. I can plane out my Pilot much nicer than a Sabre 2 or Stiletto and I use a 2 stage flare....go figure

[bwilling 0]

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From the reviews I've read it sounds like the Triathlon may teach me more with regards to accuracy as I can sink in on brakes safely if I'm overshooting my target.

I don't know where you jump, but at most larger drop zones, this practice is seriously frowned upon... if you're in the pattern with a group of people, the guys behind you will not appreciate you throwing on the brakes!

I know this to be true, because I was one of those guys! I got 'talked' to several times, then made a commitment to correct the problem. I was just falling back on old habits (it was normal 'back in the day' when I made most of my jumps), but could understand why that technique no longer worked on a busy turbine DZ.

While I worked to improve my pattern flying in general, so that I didn't end up overshooting the target, I also worked on safer ways to adjust my pattern. If I see that I'm high early, I make my turns in the pattern on front risers instead of toggles, burning off additional altitude. If I set up on final and see that I'm going to overshoot, I go to double fronts to adjust, not brakes. It keeps my canopy at full flight speeds, and doesn't hose those guys behind me.

Just something to think about... you don't want to develop bad habits that you'll just have to undo later!

I've jumped both the Triathlon and the Pilot, and they're both fine canopies. They're almost as different from each other as PD's Spectre and Sabre 2 are though, and you'd do well to demo both before deciding. The manufacturers still make both 7 cell and 9 cell canopies, because it's all a trade off of sorts, and some people prefer the trade one direction over the other.

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[shropshire 0]

Psssst Sam, Go to Emp' and do Brian's course. I guarantee (really) that you'll love it and learn loads.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Scoop 0]

Thanks everyone.

I think I'll go with the Pilot given the amount of jumps I'm hoping to do. I should dial it in quick. I suspect my problem before was lack of currency (60 odd jumps in a year and a bit isn't good)

Canopy course sounds like good idea too.

Sam

[erdnarob 1]

Having a load ratio of 1.2 when jumping a 210 means your exit weight is 252 lbs. I don't think so with that weight you should go for accuracy since in accuracy, soon or later, you will reach for the target at safe landing expenses. I would rather recommand you to use a 9 cells zero porosity canopy for powerful flares and soft landings (provided you are well briefed). A 9 cells ZP canopy will provide you with flare you cannot get with a 7 cells. OTOH, speed is an important factor for a powerful flare and that's why I would suggest you a Sabre 2-190. Nothing matches the flare of the Sabre 2. Why I tell you that, well, I am heavier than you and jumped for about 400 jumps a Sabre 2-170 with more flaring power than the Sabre 210 I had before. Now I am on a Katana 170 and I would say the flare is about the same than the Sabre 2-170. The Sabre 2 is really a canopy you will enjoy after mastering it (20-50 jumps) and you can easily keep it for 400 jumps. The resale value is very good. Nitron 190 is also an excellent choice.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[Skydog0223 0]

Have you considered a Spectre??

I jumped my Spectre for 11 years now, very consistent openings, soft!!

Also good in windy conditions, getting back from deep spots. You can come in slow or swoop in on the front risers for a nice glide.

"Know your own limits"

[kelpdiver 2]

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My main deciding factor is which canopy will help me learn to be a better, safer canopy pilot.

Also, whilst I like the realtively fast straight in approaches I don't think that I will be looking to develop any further with that as, although it may sound odd, I am scared of heights and find the landing probably the most stressful part of the skydive.

The Pilot will let one get away with the half to 3/4 flares that has the triathlon user sliding into the ground. But if the goal is to be better, is that a good or bad thing?

[AnKaLi 0]

granted it was too big of a canopy for me, but the Pilot I flew was not forgiving on 1/2 to 3/4 flares...

Neither does the triathlon that I'm flying though

[bigway 4]

After reading this thread i have changed your pilot order to a Mamba. Once i realised you were a police officer i felt it was my duty to make sure that i placed a responsible for you instead of the pilot you had ordered.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[phoenixlpr 0]

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granted it was too big of a canopy for me, but the Pilot I flew was not forgiving on 1/2 to 3/4 flares...

Mine was.

I got a 90 degree turn around a small tree and got a surprise soft landing.

[Andy9o8 0]

I love my Pilot in every aspect and would get another one in a heartbeat. But with my spine at the half-century mark, I'm tired of waking up Monday mornings with a sore back, and terminal openings are starting to make me cringe. Plus, I don't want to be hobbled 10 years from now. So...I'm thinking of getting a Spectre this year to give me softer openings, mainly to give my back a break. I don't know how old you are, but that may be a consideration.

[bigway 4]

Andy, have you tried a Safire2? My opennings were usually around the 800ft mark and were always super soft, 100 times softer than a sabre 29Maybe not a 100 but..) and always on heading.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[Andy9o8 0]

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Andy, have you tried a Safire2? My opennings were usually around the 800ft mark and were always super soft, 100 times softer than a sabre 29Maybe not a 100 but..) and always on heading.

Yeah, couple times. Nice canopy, but the openings didn't seem hugely different than the Pilot. If I were getting another 9-cell, I'd get another Pilot. If I'm going for softer openings to take my back through the next few years jumping, it will probably be a Spectre. I've yet to meet an over-40 Spectre owner who hasn't liked his/her canopy.

[Scoop 0]

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After reading this thread i have changed your pilot order to a Mamba. Once i realised you were a police officer i felt it was my duty to make sure that i placed a responsible for you instead of the pilot you had ordered.

Why thanks

[bwilling 0]

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If I'm going for softer openings to take my back through the next few years jumping, it will probably be a Spectre. I've yet to meet an over-40 Spectre owner who hasn't liked his/her canopy.

I'd also recommend at least looking into Dacron lines, if you're really wanting to save your back. Nothing takes the edge off those snappy openings like a little give in the lines!

My Dacron lined Spectre opens like butter.

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[AnKaLi 0]

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granted it was too big of a canopy for me, but the Pilot I flew was not forgiving on 1/2 to 3/4 flares...

Mine was.

I got a 90 degree turn around a small tree and got a surprise soft landing.

The pilot I flew was mean to me and slammed me into the desert & landing area any chance it got in Eloy...surprised me too since I was loading it so lightly.

[AnKaLi 0]

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I love my Pilot in every aspect and would get another one in a heartbeat. But with my spine at the half-century mark, I'm tired of waking up Monday mornings with a sore back, and terminal openings are starting to make me cringe. Plus, I don't want to be hobbled 10 years from now. So...I'm thinking of getting a Spectre this year to give me softer openings, mainly to give my back a break. I don't know how old you are, but that may be a consideration.

Andy you might want to try the storm as well. Demo'ed it this past weekend, openings were super soft...flew a Spectre that weekend too, openings were very similar.