RSL

[erdnarob 1]

I don't know what era your are refering to about not having access to a RSL but I was jumping in 1974 with a Steven Cut away System comprising of a 1/2" tubular webbing line connected at one end to one riser (the right one) and attached at the other end to a "side pull" handle of a chest mounted reserve. The line in extra was stowed in a little pocket with velcro sewn on the right main lift web. One day I don't know what happened but I guess I grabbed the metal main rip cord and the Steven together because I ended up with two perfectly open round canopies: the main was a T10 (paratroopers) and the reserve was a 24' flat circular.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[airtwardo 6]

I'm by no means an expert on cutting away, as opposed to those of you in the double digit cutaway numbers, but I feel comfortable pulling both handles on my own.

I'm one of those double digit guys, and have never used an RSL.

Heck, my first chop was on cape-wells and the reserve had no pilot-chute...NOT having an RSL isn't the kiss of death.

My reason for not RSLing is that I can't use one because of safety concerns on about 20% of the jumps I make and I only want one set of EP's in the hard drive...no problems so far.

You're informed... understand the procedures and have made an 'educated' decision regarding you procedures ~that's what a skydiver does.

Other people may make a different decision and their choice isn't right or wrong, just like yours.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[skydiverek 55]

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Concerning the unreleased riser problem, a workaround has been developed on the Atom container. There are 2 pins on the reserve, each linked to a riser, the RSL can not open the container until the 2 risers are gone... There must be some drawbacks too, since no system is perfect...

This system is called LOR-2.

[airtwardo 6]

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Not to hijack the thread but, the bag lock part kinda shows that the jumper picks up some speed during that malfunction.

If you've had one ya' know

Agreed...there was a discussion in another old thread in which I got flamed for stating that fact.

Maybe not on ALL bag-locks, but for the one I had and the ones I've seen...you most definitely pick up speed in the vertical.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[gearless_chris 1]

I've made the mistake of pulling on level with people before. I definitely picked up speed from the time I threw until the canopy started inflating. I dropped a good 40 feet, just like tandems do when they release the drogue.

Just imagine what kind of crap poor Ryan would catch if he was jumping without a Cypress. It amazes me that people wouldn't jump a rig without one, or without a RSL. 4 out of my 5 cutaways are without a RSL, I almost got to use my Skyhook but the canopy would've landed in a corn field that was being harvested and I didn't know if I could find it in time. It wasn't a horrible mal, just a broken steering line. I have around 40 all rear riser landings so I wasn't that concerned, I just hadn't landed this canopy on rears yet. If my old rig had a RSL I would have it hooked up.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[jsaxton 0]

nah, y'all just got flamed for being you

[dragon2 0]

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Concerning the unreleased riser problem, a workaround has been developed on the Atom container. There are 2 pins on the reserve, each linked to a riser, the RSL can not open the container until the 2 risers are gone... There must be some drawbacks too, since no system is perfect...

There are enough drawbacks that all non-student and non-tandem Atoms with factory-installed RSL/LOR2 systems I've ever seen here are modified to onesided RSL and 1 reservepin. I've had that explained to me once (I had a modified Atom like that for a first rig) but I can't remember why the mods are apparently routinely done (locally at least) so I won't repeat it here. I very much liked the result with the 1 pin though as it's a 9-shaped pin with the RSL directly attached to it instead of the more usual guiderings for the reserve cable. However one point of interest of the French 9-shaped pins are that they prevent the ripcord to pass through the reserve housing and it is thus possible to lose your reserve ripcord if it slips off the pin after a cutaway and you already let go of it, although mine stayed nicely attached 3 times

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[diablopilot 2]

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That's just not true. I cut away from a spinning malfunction this summer and had about 8 or 9 linetwists in my reserve because of the RSL.

I can almost guarantee you that you got line twists because you fought to get belly to earth, instead of remaining in an optimum opening position post breakaway.

The RSL has no direct connection to your reserve parachute, or freebag at all. None. It pulls your reserve cable only.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[ryan_d_sucks 0]

I understand how the RSL works. I didn't fight to get belly to earth, at least not to my knowledge. I actually went ahead and punched silver immediately after cutting away since I knew I had an RSL.

"The RSL has no direct connection to your reserve parachute, or freebag at all. None. It pulls your reserve cable only"

I understand that. Would you agree that spinning in freefall and pulling a main ripcord would likely result in linetwists? Why is that principal any different when on an RSL and spinning under a main? Or am I misunderstanding something?

Ryan

[Hellis 0]

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I understand that. Would you agree that spinning in freefall and pulling a main ripcord would likely result in linetwists? Why is that principal any different when on an RSL and spinning under a main? Or am I misunderstanding something?

Ryan

when you are spinning in freefall as most students do when they are on their own, they spin around them selfs.

as in your case you where spinning around the canopy.

look at it in this way.
if you would hold a rock in your hand and spin your arm, this will make the rock you, arm is the lines and shoulder is the canopy.
the rock is not spinning around its own axle.
if you would cut (release the rock), the rock would not be spinning anymore since it lost its axle to spin around.
so when you release the rock it will keep going straight in whatever direction you droped it.
no spin.

as for why your reserver had linetwist?
we all know there could be other reasons than the RSL.
it could be uneven packing, umm... i lost the word for it, when the cells arent filled with air.
if that would happen on one side of the canopy it would probably spin.

it could also be that you are correct, the RSL did something to create a linetwist.
but i dont know what that could be.

[popsjumper 2]

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...perhaps 25-30 malfunctions,

May I introduce you to the video, "Pack Like A Pro"?







all in good humor, TK.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Andy_Copland 0]

As far as im concerned, until i go in and the end result is "An RSL or AAD would have saved Andy" everyone can leave me alone as i make my own decisions. Fuck em.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[yarpos 4]

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I don't know what era your are refering to about not having access to a RSL but I was jumping in 1974 with a Steven Cut away System comprising of a 1/2" tubular webbing line connected at one end to one riser (the right one) and attached at the other end to a "side pull" handle of a chest mounted reserve. The line in extra was stowed in a little pocket with velcro sewn on the right main lift web. One day I don't know what happened but I guess I grabbed the metal main rip cord and the Steven together because I ended up with two perfectly open round canopies: the main was a T10 (paratroopers) and the reserve was a 24' flat circular.

yes it was back then , through the 70's. Poor choice of words on my part....invented as you point out but not offered/available on sport rigs way back then, at least in my part of the world.

regards, Steve
the older I get...the better I was

[azureriders 0]

Getting your reserve out before hitting the ground:
UNDER RATED

Getting stable before deploying your reserve:
WAY WAY WAY OVER RATED.

I do not jump an RSL because of jumping large cameras, a whole other debate, and as someone else said, I only need one set of EMPs. If I were not jumping cameras, I would for sure use an RSL. Both of the following chop stories are from RW jumps, not video.

My third chop: Spinning semi violently on my back with no altitude to spare. Red --> Silver, Bam Bam, quick. Look up to a perfect reserve, find a place to land.

My fourth chop: Spinning not so violent on my back with some altitude to play with. Red --> Roll Over --> Relax --> Silver. Look up to 4 complete line twist on my reserve. Kick Kick Kick, find a place to land.

FYI, both of these chops were on the same day and on two different DZs.

[Martini 0]

I'm definitely with the chop and IMMEDIATELY get a reserve out crowd, I don't use an an RSL for reasons that may not apply to you. Altitude over body position every time though.

The reason I add my two cents here is simple, it's called muscle memory. If you practice and perform a delay between cutaway and reserve pull then that's what you're gonna do when you chop really low. You may not be pleased with the result.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[mnealtx 0]

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If you practice and perform a delay between cutaway and reserve pull then that's what you're gonna do when you chop really low. You may not be pleased with the result.

No shit, there I was, thought he was gonna die:

Location: Small DZ near Aschaffenburg, Germany
Situation: Low pull of main, hung slider, cutaway with delay 'to get stable'.

I was turning away so as not to see the skydiver bounce when I saw the pilot chute launch. He had enough time to grab his rears and start a flare. 1 more second, and...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Andrewwhyte 1]

There was an accident last year where the jumper was using an RSL and so didn't get stable before dumping his reserve. He still had line twists when he hit the ground. He was facing backwards and hit the back of his head, breaking his helmet and injuring himself badly.
QUESTION: If he didn't have time to kick out of line twists what are the chances he would have gotten a reserve at all if had delayed deployment to 'get stable?'

[dragon2 0]

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Getting your reserve out before hitting the ground:
UNDER RATED

Getting stable before deploying your reserve:
WAY WAY WAY OVER RATED.

I do not jump an RSL because of jumping large cameras, a whole other debate, and as someone else said, I only need one set of EMPs. If I were not jumping cameras, I would for sure use an RSL. Both of the following chop stories are from RW jumps, not video.

My third chop: Spinning semi violently on my back with no altitude to spare. Red --> Silver, Bam Bam, quick. Look up to a perfect reserve, find a place to land.

My fourth chop: Spinning not so violent on my back with some altitude to play with. Red --> Roll Over --> Relax --> Silver. Look up to 4 complete line twist on my reserve. Kick Kick Kick, find a place to land.

FYI, both of these chops were on the same day and on two different DZs.

My story is similar to yours, except no cutaways on the same day so far

If I didn't jump video on pratically every jump, I'd jump an RSL (or skyhook) for sure. My cutaways with rsl went better than those without.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Scrumpot 1]

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I find the engineering aspect of our equipment fasinating. I think it's a really great time in our sport. Things seem to be advancing at a much faster pace. Very exciting from my point of view. I realize that some things will be great and some will not, but still very exciting.

Exciting, yes. ...However, have you ever read Bill Booth's Theory of Constants? I personally, am ever even more amazed, by that.

No matter what we do, we just can't seem to get away from that. Kind of like the saying of "build it even more idiot-proof, and all that produces is bigger idiots"? It unfortunately at least seems to just be, one of those most basic, and intrinsic, human nature - absolute truth's

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[BUBLHED 0]

Exciting, yes. ...However, have you ever read Bill Booth's Theory of Constants? I personally, am ever even more amazed, by that.

No matter what we do, we just can't seem to get away from that. Kind of like the saying of "build it even more idiot-proof, and all that produces is bigger idiots"? It unfortunately at least seems to just be, one of those most basic, and intrinsic, human nature - absolute truth's



I have to agree with that. I'm just trying not to be one of them. Who knows? Maybie it'll work.

ATTACK LIFE ! IT'S GOING TO KILL YOU ANYWAY!!!!

[Thanatos340 1]

Everyone has an opinion on this.

In my Time in this sport, I have personally witnessed 6 Fatalities first hand, 3 would have most likely walked away if they had an RSL (The others were Canopy Collision).
The first Fatality I ever witnessed, the guy chopped a Spinning main, Turned to get stable and the reserve came out about treetop level. He had over 4000 jumps if I remember correctly.
A few days later I watched someone with under 200 jumps do the exact same thing. I truly believe that Both would have walked away without a scratch if they had an RSL.

The most resent fatality I witnessed is more questionable as the chop was around 800 feet estimated (Self induced line twists at a low altitude).. But an RSL had a chance, With no RSL, He did not.

I do not doubt that there are a few Fatalities caused by RSL`s but I think the RSL`s have saved way more.

I look at it like this, I at least have a Chance of Kicking out of line twist on my reserve. I have NO chance of Kicking out of the dirt without a Reserve.

And I still firmly believe in Pulling BOTH handles no matter what.

[slj678 0]

Just curious as to why you can't use an rsl if your shooting video? Probably somethin obvious but I'm drawing a blank?

"I didn't know they gave out rings at the holocaust"

[Scrumpot 1]

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...the chop was around 800 feet estimated (Self induced line twists at a low altitude).. But an RSL had a chance, With no RSL, He did not.

I'm sorry Thanatos, but that's just not so. You are deluding yourself, and putting way too much faith and reliance clearly, on the RSL (as being THE solution) as indicated by making this statement. A standard RSL does not necessarily get a reserve out any quicker than a human (i.e. YOURSELF) CAN. The ONLY thing the RSL does (or is designed to do - it still can fail too, BTW) is get the reserve pin pulled "automatically". IF either of those jumpers you cite, had PULLED THEIR RESERVE HANDLE THEMSELVES in proper and quick sequence for the situation behind their chop, they would have had every bit the very SAME CHANCE they would have had, - had they had an RSL!

I'm sorry for your friends, and for what you have witnessed to apparently make you think this, but please also understand this. The RSL is not (and would not have been for them either) the begin-all, end-all miracle cure to their situations.

You are not just automatically F***'d if you don't jump with an RSL or choose not to. Neither going with an RSL or going without an RSL is such "death on a stick" as some of the extremes on each side of this opinion/debate would it seems, like to make it out, ...or by their anecdotal descriptions as such, seem to portray their oponents position to be.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Thanatos340 1]

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A standard RSL does not necessarily get a reserve out any quicker than a human (i.e. YOURSELF) CAN.

I respectfully disagree. No one can beat an RSL. When a second or two matters (Like Chopping at 800 feet) an RSL CAN possibly pull the pin quicker than you could.
And you are correct, Either of the first two fatalities could have been avoided if the jumpers Pulled both handles themselves. But for some reason that we will never know, They did not.
Couldn’t find the handle? Clothes in the way? Felt they HAD to get stable before they pulled the reserve?
We don’t know.

All I know is that an RSL most likely would have made the difference in at least two of the three and the third it MIGHT have a Difference. (Yes, Pulling both handles quicker would have also made a difference but for some unknown reason, That didn’t happen. (Actually I believe that all 3 did pull both handles, just not soon enough)

A very experience Jumper this past weekend also mentioned something relevant here. I was having some problems with a brand new canopy that I just got and asked them to jump it for me to see if it was just me or was there really an issue with the canopy. When he put on my Rig, I mentioned that it had an RSL (In case he was Anti-RSL so that he could disconnect it). He said basically that if he had a problem and didn’t have the time (Too Low) to pull the RSL disconnect, Then he most likely needed the RSL.

I think RSL`s are a good idea in MOST scenarios. I also firmly believe that you do NOT count on it and pull both handles. Altitude Awareness and pulling both handles first and foremost but if you fucked that up somehow an RSL might let you live and learn.

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

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Just curious as to why you can't use an rsl if your shooting video? Probably somethin obvious but I'm drawing a blank?

The possibility of the main snagging on the cameras or mounts.
You don't want the reserve coming out before you have a chance to get rid of the camera rig. (One of the reasons for a cutaway on camera gear).

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo