Student system with Drogue

[peregrinerose 0]

I saw this on ebay.... not interested in buying it, just curious as to how this kind of system has been used.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Strong-Student-Rig-with-Drogue-Free-Fall-system_W0QQitemZ140189417940QQihZ004QQcategoryZ106980QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[AggieDave 6]

Its a Strong tandem system. You can use it as a solo rig with some easy changes, but at the end of the day its still a tandem rig.

So its been used just like any other tandem progression system would use a tandem rig. A couple of tandems with the student deploying and followed with an abbreviated FJC to AFF Cat C (level 3).

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[peregrinerose 0]

What would be the advantage of using this rather than doing tandem progression to AFF or IAD?

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[mark 107]

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Its a Strong tandem system. You can use it as a solo rig with some easy changes, but at the end of the day its still a tandem rig.

So its been used just like any other tandem progression system would use a tandem rig. A couple of tandems with the student deploying and followed with an abbreviated FJC to AFF Cat C (level 3).

Close, but not quite. It really is a student rig -- Manta 288 and Raven IV are on the small side for a tandem, but appropriate for students.

Strong produced a small number of drogue-stabilized student rigs so students could practice turns, forward movement, and tracking without having to worry about tumbling. If you static-line the drogue, you don't need freefall instructors. The idea never caught on, and I don't see it advertised as an option on their web site any more.

Mark

[peek 20]

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What would be the advantage of using this rather than doing tandem progression to AFF or IAD?

Advantage over Tandem, no Tandem instructor needed.
Advantage over AFF, no AFF instructors needed.
Advantage over IAD, no instability on short delays.

It is an example of one of the innovative things Ted Strong has come up with. He was thinking of small drop zones that had plenty of S/L or IAD instructors but not AFF instructors. Now there are enough AFF instructors at most places.

The problem with it was that it was too gear intensive, and people are not very willing anymore to deal with anything but the simplest gear configurations. (That's actually probably for the best because many skydivers are not willing to learn much about gear.)

[skydivingchad 0]

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That's actually probably for the best because many skydivers are not willing to learn much about gear.

It's funny you should say that because the OP is my wife and that's why she asked the question, because she loves to fill her head with gear info.

Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.
Pelt Head #3

[fcajump 164]

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That's actually probably for the best because many skydivers are not willing to learn much about gear.

It's funny you should say that because the OP is my wife and that's why she asked the question, because she loves to fill her head with gear info.

Thats because she hangs around with DDW too much ... wish I had that problem

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[peek 20]

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... the OP is my wife

Oh, no, the Packing Fairy? Just think, you could have gone for years without us knowing the secret life of , but you had to go and speak up.

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... she loves to fill her head with gear info.

We've noticed that about her. Good for her. We need more instructors like that.

[airdvr 201]

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What would be the advantage of using this rather than doing tandem progression to AFF or IAD?

Advantage over Tandem, no Tandem instructor needed.
Advantage over AFF, no AFF instructors needed.
Advantage over IAD, no instability on short delays.

It is an example of one of the innovative things Ted Strong has come up with. He was thinking of small drop zones that had plenty of S/L or IAD instructors but not AFF instructors. Now there are enough AFF instructors at most places.

The problem with it was that it was too gear intensive, and people are not very willing anymore to deal with anything but the simplest gear configurations. (That's actually probably for the best because many skydivers are not willing to learn much about gear.)

My first thought with that setup was a sloppy sudent exit followed by being tangled up in drogue. Seems very possible to me.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[peregrinerose 0]

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Thats because she hangs around with DDW too much ... wish I had that problem

I freaking LOVE having the 'problem' of hanging out with him at least weekly

Chad is never going to live that Packing Fairy thing down though. It's so much fun being married to a celebrity like that
Back to that rig... is it packed the same as a Strong tandem, just smaller? I still don't see how useful a training aid that would be... since the drogue is static lined, the student could be almost fetal the entire skydive and just pull... what can they learn, other than altitude awareness and maybe keeping a heading? I would think that the drogue would hinder learning on body position, particularly with no instructor ability to give pointers other than exit. Which I guess is why it's not really used, eh?

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[fcajump 164]

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Thats because she hangs around with DDW too much ... wish I had that problem

I freaking LOVE having the 'problem' of hanging out with him at least weekly

Chad is never going to live that Packing Fairy thing down though. It's so much fun being married to a celebrity like that
Back to that rig... is it packed the same as a Strong tandem, just smaller? I still don't see how useful a training aid that would be... since the drogue is static lined, the student could be almost fetal the entire skydive and just pull... what can they learn, other than altitude awareness and maybe keeping a heading? I would think that the drogue would hinder learning on body position, particularly with no instructor ability to give pointers other than exit. Which I guess is why it's not really used, eh?

Concept was (I think) that it would absolutely make sure they stayed belly-to-earth. The old Strong TI video shows a "student" using one.

I would like to have one as it would help keep me in RW formations. Wanted to be an Anvil Brother, but kept sinking out of the formation...

Hope to see Maytown in '08.

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[LouDiamond 1]

This concept is still being utilized today. The Military Multi Mission system offered by CPS utilizes static line drouge among other deployment options. The Marines primarily use this system but we have a few being used in the Army on a limited basis.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[AggieDave 6]

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Strong produced a small number of drogue-stabilized student rigs so students could practice turns, forward movement, and tracking without having to worry about tumbling.

Seriously? I thought the canopies was a mis print and none of the pictures showed the harness, but the back of the rig looks like a Strong tandem at first glance.

What a bad idea. If someone can't be stable in a neutral body position what is the point of teaching other maneuvers?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[divnswoop 0]

***What a bad idea.

[AggieDave 6]

The military skydive doesn't come to mind for me. I'm looking at it from a sport student skydiver perspective.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[jumper03 0]

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The military skydive doesn't come to mind for me. I'm looking at it from a sport student skydiver perspective.

I agree with you dave- I think it would encourage bad body position. Who needs to arch? the drogue keeps you stable...

Scars remind us that the past is real

[divnswoop 0]

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The military skydive doesn't come to mind for me.

Well the Military led the way for skydiving in the beginning.....then the sport world became more advanced than the military. Now things are changing again. You would be pretty surprised by what the military is doing with parachutes nowadays. In fact the military may be the only reason you are jumping the gear you are........

While it may be a poor idea for the sport world....that doesn't make it a poor idea for everybody. 80% of Strongs business is military...and military business fuels the cheap sport gear

[riggerrob 613]

This concept pre-dates tandem by many years.

Russian paratroopers used it back during the Cold War. All their static-line rigs included drogues and KAP3 auto-openers. The idea was to use the static line to deploy the drogue, then the jump-master could adjust the length of the drogue-fall by adjusting the KAP3.
Soviet drogues were anchored to the scruff of the paratrooper's neck. The also wore front-mounted reserves. SKYDIVING Magazine published a photo of a Russian paratrooper a few years back. He pretended to fire his AK-47 while in drogue-fall.
The end result was system far too complicated for the average grunt to adjust. Something about kilopascals per quantum ?????? on a circular slide rule?????

A few years later (1970s?) Alaskan smoke-jumpers did some cross-training with Siberian smoke-jumpers and adopted drogues. Ted Strong built a bunch of Soviet-pattern drogues for the Alaskan smoke-jumpers shortly before he started doing tandems in 1983.

The Ted Strong tried back-loading this drogue-fall concept to American skydiving students. I never heard the full story, but apparently a student got into a violent spin over Hinckley, Illinois). He spun all the way until the AAD (Sentinel or FXC) in his reserve fired and the round reserve got wrapped around the drogue bridle. Wrapped so badly that it never opened. This accident resulted in a nasty law suit and I never heard the verdict.
Ergo, Strong quit building drogues for student rigs in the early 19990s.

[bclark 0]

I've seen more than one instructor
who couldn't hold heading under a drogue!

[JerryBaumchen 1,304]

Hi Rob,

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This concept pre-dates tandem by many years.

About the July '64 issue of PARACHUTIST had a cover picture of a guy jumping a Ballute. This was some type of drogue system on a fore & aft rig.

What goes around comes around . . . . .

JerryBaumchen

[BlindBrick 0]

Swwet, I've been looking for something like that for a two-stage braking procedure for speed diving. Though I'm not sure about puting that kind of stress on a 16 y.o. harness.

The funny thing was that a even as recent as this years PIA I'd talked to Strong reps about the possibility of getting a sport rig modded like that and they didn't have a clue. Guess I should have talked to the man himself.
-Blind

"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it."