Consistent off heading openings on my new Sabre 2

[rehmwa 2]

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90 front riser leads to a little bit of bucking - what does that actually tell me?

Almost always - That your brake lines are too short.

Blues,
Ian

and if your brake lines have shrunk enough to do that,....... then the rest of your lines might also have. If your outside lines shrink enough, you just might get off heading shifts at the tail end of your opening sequence. If it's turning off at the end of the sequence, you can at least rule out bad body position, etc.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[UPS 0]

Sabre2-150 is my first canopy, i noticed right away the opening problems and in the beginning was thinking it was because I was a low experience jumper.

So got used to that, but they never really improved until I started some harness imputs in flight. I don't know if it's only me, but it's easier on my sabre2 to get it to turn right, rather than left. And when I say easy, it really is, to turn right I do a slight imput, to go left, I need to do extremely agressive imputs. So I started making tests, I modifyed my body position in the middle of the openings, like lowering my left leg keeping my right one up and most of the openings got straight on heading.

Put I stoped doing this, I didn't want to get some bad habit for future good opening canopies I will own.

[Spizzzarko 0]

"Saw a pretty nasty spinning malfunction two weeks ago from a guy doing this. (but it was a velo - canopy was turning one way and he barely tapped the rear riser and it turned around and wrapped the other way catching the small riser input into the resulting twist and locking the turn = spinning out of control - it happened so very quick) "

Wow... Sucks to be that dude. I always steer my velo to keep it from hauling ass one way or another on opening. I have found the less shit I do to the canopy during packing the better openings I get.

I saw a dude jump a velo with the brakes unstowed this weekend. That was interesting to say the least. I have jumped canopies with the brakes unstowed before (very slow openings), but not a velocity as it opens fairly slow as is.

[ficus 0]

I recently moved from a Sabre2 190 to a 150. I was experiencing many of the same problems, more often than not opening in a full 360 during the first 10-15 jumps.

I decided to reevaluate my packing technique, thinking that maybe I had developed some lazy habits that I could get away with on the bigger canopy, but not with the new one. I asked someone to pack my rig while I watched. (It didn't hurt my confidence in his technique that John LeBlanc was the one who showed him how to pack a Sabre2.)

Long story short, I concluded that the main problem was that I was doing a poor job of putting the thing in the bag symmetrically. I was putting one side of the canopy in the bag first and controlling the other side poorly, causing it to not go in as cleanly as the first side. Ever since then, I have become lazier in the first half of the pack job (clear the D lines, quarter the slider, wrap it up), and more meticulous in S-folding and placing the canopy in the bag. My pack jobs are faster than ever, and my openings are better than ever: the best of both worlds.

I have since done roughly another 80 jumps on this canopy, and while I have had a couple of off-heading openings, I'd say 95% of them have been less than 90 degrees, with the majority being less than 20 degrees.

Hope this helps.

Ficus

[Newbie 0]

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I read plenty of reviews thanks and not one of them mentioned this.

It's not too much of a problem, but it is somewhat disconcerting.

Interesting that you say that. The forums are full of complaints about sabre2 openings. I demoed one that was very bad in that respect (in all 8 jumps). But yes, they do fly well once they are open. I own a Pilot now.

The forums are far from complaints about openings - i searched "Sabre 2 off heading" and it came back with a bunch of threads, only 3 of which had any relevancy to do with off heading issues. I read most of the reviews on this site in the Gear reviews section where people say "no more than 10 degrees off heading openings" "no cons" "wonderful, reliable canopy" etc etc.

I do like my Sabre2 but i wasn't aware of any ongoing opening issues as a result of what i thought were pretty thorough checks (reading through the reviews of them on this site).

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Also steer the canopy throught the opening with rears.

Baby sitting an all-around canopy? It seems to be an overshoot.

[Newbie 0]

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I recently moved from a Sabre2 190 to a 150. I was experiencing many of the same problems, more often than not opening in a full 360 during the first 10-15 jumps.

I decided to reevaluate my packing technique, thinking that maybe I had developed some lazy habits that I could get away with on the bigger canopy, but not with the new one. I asked someone to pack my rig while I watched. (It didn't hurt my confidence in his technique that John LeBlanc was the one who showed him how to pack a Sabre2.)

Long story short, I concluded that the main problem was that I was doing a poor job of putting the thing in the bag symmetrically. I was putting one side of the canopy in the bag first and controlling the other side poorly, causing it to not go in as cleanly as the first side. Ever since then, I have become lazier in the first half of the pack job (clear the D lines, quarter the slider, wrap it up), and more meticulous in S-folding and placing the canopy in the bag. My pack jobs are faster than ever, and my openings are better than ever: the best of both worlds.

I have since done roughly another 80 jumps on this canopy, and while I have had a couple of off-heading openings, I'd say 95% of them have been less than 90 degrees, with the majority being less than 20 degrees.

Hope this helps.

Ficus

Alot of what you say rings true - i put one side in first which generally tends to be neater than the other side which is more stuffed and often not as even as the first side i bag.

Please share any tips you were told on bagging up more evenly, i would really appreciate it.

Thanks

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[ficus 0]

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Alot of what you say rings true - i put one side in first which generally tends to be neater than the other side which is more stuffed and often not as even as the first side i bag.

Please share any tips you were told on bagging up more evenly, i would really appreciate it.

The main thing is to strike the right balance in the width of the rolled up canopy before you S-fold it. Too wide and you end up shoving everything all over the place to get the second side in; too narrow and you have bulk distribution problems in the bag, likely causing the canopy to swim around side to side when you close up.

If you can get this right, it's not too hard to swing the bag around after filling the first corner and slide everything right in neatly. I like to see the center seam dead in the middle of the bag.

I also know some people who put the top S-fold in the bag first and then fold the bottom half of the canopy into the bag and get very symmetrical distribution.

Ficus

[jacketsdb23 45]

You could always try a safire 2 :) They open very nice. I have put about 20 jumps on a sabre 2 135 and just hate the openings. I think PD has a great product but its not what i'm used to. To many jumps on a Safire 2.

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

[hookitt 0]

Becides the good packing suggestions:

-Throw the PC smoothly and positively. An aggressive throw is not neccessary. Remember it's a 120 MPHish wind. Just get it out there and it will do somehting.

-Don't watch the Pilot chute.

-After releasing the pilot chute, keep eyes on the horizon and continue to fly.

-At line stretch, put your legs together to keep the harness even. <=== this helps a lot.

-It does not need help to open so there's no need to steer it while it's inflating. Helping it is one of the most common causes of opening problems.


-Often its simply best to follow the off heading rather than try and correct it. The moment it's steerable, turn it back to the original headding so you continue to fly away from the formation.

Good luck

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

I have about 350 jump on my Sabre2 120. I have had a similar experience to yours, although mine typically snivels nicely, then does the violent stuff. I have discovered two ways to reduce the issue:

1) minimize pushing the nose in... do a really good clover-leaf on the slider to slow the opening.

2) use harness input to counter the turn. wait patiently while it's on-heading, then as soon as it starts to dive, bring that knee up and lean hard the other way. this may not work as well on a larger model.

It took me ~100 jumps to get mine figured out, but now I'm very comfortable with it. It's worth it to me becuase the shitty opening is made up for by the amazing flight performance!

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[proswooper 2]

My Wife had a sabre2 120 for a long time and after a reline it came back from PD with so many opening issues that packing just could not fix. i checked the line trim and it was exactly what it should have been.

sad thing is i love this canopy and i learned to swoop on a sabre2 150 down to a 120 before going to a velo, and the sabre2s i jumped never had opeinings that were anything but soft and on heading. it seems that the line trim revisions from the early sabre2s when i was jumping them to now are more aggressively trimmed but the openings are far less consistent.

I do not think you should have to 'fly' the openings of an intermediate level canopy. I know with my pilot i can TRASH the packjob and that baby comes out so on heading its not funny.

if you cant fix it with packing technique and the canopy is in trim i would contact PD who will do everything in their power to fix the problem.

[rushmc 18]

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Newbie-

I was having the same problems on my Sabre 2 170, other than that I loved the canopy. I called PD to get a Sabre 2 150 demo and asked about my brisk openings. Kim (in the demo department) gave me some packing tips. I've tried them and the openings are much better and on heading. The big one was don't tuck the nose or roll it. Give them a call and ask for suggestions.

I just wanted to post to tell you thank you. I have (had) been dealing with the same problems until I read this post.

When I first got my canopy I rolled the nose and the tail tight. Just as I had with other canopys I had been jumping. This technic resulted in 1200 foot plus snivels, which one would think would be nice but, I would get a hard second stage of opening followed by a turn (sometimes as much as 360 degrees). I learned as time went on that the turns were for the most part my body position.

Then, after reading many posts here, I slowly started to roll the nose less and less and crossing my fingers every time. While that started to help with the openings, I was now in a contest with the canopy to see if I could fight my way to an on heading opening. (which I could most of the time).

Eventually I got to where I was not rolling the nose but I was (untill this weekend) gently pushing the nose back into the canopy and rolling the tail tight.

Well, I left the nose alone after flaking and quartering the slider, rolled the tail lighly and, with much fear, I went up and gave it a try.

All I can say is WOW, what a difference, and just to make sure it was not a fluke, I tryed it two more times. It now opens on heading with a nice 600 ft snivel just like one would hope!

I have always liked flying the Sabre2 but now the opens are not as exciting.

thanks for taking the time! Who would have thought just leaving the nose out and the tail a little looser could make that much differncet. (I am sure many of you high numbers jumper are going DUH, it all makes a difference and I will humbly acept that )

Thanks again

Marc

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

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Who would have thought just leaving the nose out and the tail a little looser could make that much differnce

Only those that read the packing instructions that come with a PD canopy.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[michalm21 0]

I tried exactly the same thing this weekend.
My Sabre2 had some off headings in the past but they were fine, not long either, but I wanted to give it a shot after reading this post.
In short, the less meticulous I am with my pack jobs, the better they open. I never touched the nose, and rolled it very slightly and I had some nice openings this weekend!!! Maybe only 1 or 2 were off by 90 degrees out of 12 jumps, besides that nice on heading :)
It is a big improvement, as I used to have off headings on almost half of my jumps before that.
I have to add, I changed my body position too a little, keeping my legs together during swivel and my hands just on the risers just above 3 rings to keep my body symetrical

[rushmc 18]

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Who would have thought just leaving the nose out and the tail a little looser could make that much differnce

Only those that read the packing instructions that come with a PD canopy.

I did and I thought I was doing what was said

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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Who would have thought just leaving the nose out and the tail a little looser could make that much differnce

Only those that read the packing instructions that come with a PD canopy.

In reallity, the changes I made this weekend were very very small for what I was doing. It is not like I was shoving the nose way back in because I know that messes up the canopy in the middle. The biggest part of the change was leaving the tail much looser. (and that just makes it harder to get in the bag)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[ianmdrennan 2]

Glad to hear it helped
Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[rehmwa 2]

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Who would have thought just leaving the nose out and the tail a little looser could make that much differnce

Only those that read the packing instructions that come with a PD canopy.

I did and I thought I was doing what was said

Just mocking you Marc. It took me a long time to adjust from old style pro-packing to the recommended style. I still 'want' to push the nose in. I compromise, I take the nose and pull it straight down to neaten it up. It's pointless, but I get to muck with it before wrapping the tail so that fools my old, ingrained habits from 15 years ago into thinking it's a tuck.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rushmc 18]

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Who would have thought just leaving the nose out and the tail a little looser could make that much differnce

Only those that read the packing instructions that come with a PD canopy.

I did and I thought I was doing what was said

Getting a little mocking should always be acepted when deserved!!
Just mocking you Marc. It took me a long time to adjust from old style pro-packing to the recommended style. I still 'want' to push the nose in. I compromise, I take the nose and pull it straight down to neaten it up. It's pointless, but I get to muck with it before wrapping the tail so that fools my old, ingrained habits from 15 years ago into thinking it's a tuck.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Glitch 0]

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[rushmc 18]

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I thought I did man!!!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Glitch 0]

Hehe... glad ya caught that, sometimes my obtuse sense of humor isn't.

Anyway, I've played these games with my Sabre2, and aside from getting that slick bitch in the bag, I don't have any problems anymore (limited jump #'s, so the jury is still out). Once I quit screwing around with the nose (I just flake it and leave it the hell alone... no more stuffing, rolling, stroking, petting, or fondling) and started 'lightly' rolling the tail, I've had sweet openings.

I also had a bit of an issue with excessive snivels (1300' rides from pitch to saddle), which also went away once I started pulling the slider to the rear instead of quartering (think old-school stack packing...). Now I'm enjoying nice 600'-800' openings - just like I like 'em.

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[rushmc 18]

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Hehe... glad ya caught that, sometimes my obtuse sense of humor isn't.

Anyway, I've played these games with my Sabre2, and aside from getting that slick bitch in the bag, I don't have any problems anymore (limited jump #'s, so the jury is still out). Once I quit screwing around with the nose (I just flake it and leave it the hell alone... no more stuffing, rolling, stroking, petting, or fondling) and started 'lightly' rolling the tail, I've had sweet openings.

I also had a bit of an issue with excessive snivels (1300' rides from pitch to saddle), which also went away once I started pulling the slider to the rear instead of quartering (think old-school stack packing...). Now I'm enjoying nice 600'-800' openings - just like I like 'em.

Hhhmmm, If I get the exessive snivels (which I have not yet since leaving the nose alone) I may try moving away from the quartered slider. But I will do that very sllllllooooooowwwwwly in small incriments.

Thanks

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jcecil 0]

How I pack my Sabre2 190
-Good line check
-Quarter slider
-Flake/Clear stabilizer
-Open nose on center 3 cells, don't touch the rest
-2 wraps of tail, lay down gently
-Normal S-fold in bag, keeping symmetrical as possible
-Jump!

On deployment, I throw PC, watch horizon, as soon as I start to rotate I lock my feet together, and don't touch the risers until the slider starts to come down. I have my hands by the risers in case I need quick input, but I can't steer the canopy til the slider starts to come down anyway.

This sequence results in soft, on heading openings probably 80% of the time, with no more than a 90 left or right the rest of the time. End cell closure every time, and I usually have to work to get the slider all the way down (I only load it around 1.25 or so).

Before I installed the new lines, the old lines had 750+ jumps, and every opening was a crapshoot. Some would be great, soft, on heading, others would spin me 360+ sometimes. Since the new lines, this canopy is my favorite, I like it better than the Spectres I've jumped.